Question about Indiana

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Hanzo581, Mar 27, 2017.

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  1. Hanzo581

    Hanzo581 Member

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    On another forum I am in a discussion and I am not sure of the answer.

    Someone from Indiana has a lifetime CCW permit. They say when they go to buy a gun that's all they show and they buy and walk out with the gun. Anyone know the process? Is that checked to make sure it's valid? He's asking if he gets a felony and holds onto the card, does that mean he can just stroll in and still show the card?

    (he's not a felon, he's just asking a hypothetical as we're arguing about gun laws)
     
  2. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    Is "this someone" claiming that even a NICS check isn't performed?

    If you're "arguing about gun laws", then, of course he cannot, as a felon, just walk in, show the card, and walk out with a gun legally. I'm sure that's your side of the argument.

    My state's licensing division is directed to suspend the CWFL of anyone who becomes criminally ineligible to possess a firearm. I'm not sure how efficiently that is done, though.
     
  3. Hanzo581

    Hanzo581 Member

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    I did read specifically that in Indiana if you have a CCW you do not have to get a instant check, which is what spurred the discussion.

    "Exempt from the instant check are law enforcement officers; holders of an Indiana concealed carry license; and transactions between licensed firearms importers, collectors, firearms manufacturers or dealers. In some instances, a federal instant check is required."

    So this mentions in some cases?
     
  4. Gary Gill

    Gary Gill Member

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    I am a resident in Indiana. We complete a 4473 and go through a nics check.
     
  5. Hanzo581

    Hanzo581 Member

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    Do you have a concealed carry permit though?
     
  6. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    Some dealers probably require the check, even when (if) the state doesn't require it. Otherwise, I guess the question goes back to whether or not any check is done to determine the validity of the carry permit the prospective buyer is presenting.
     
  7. Hanzo581

    Hanzo581 Member

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    That's exactly what I am trying to figure out. I mean, that card means you at one time qualified to own a firearm, if it isn't checked against a live database at purchase it's useless right?
     
  8. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    It would seem logical to assume that if a person with an Indiana lifetime license was convicted of a felony that they'd lose the license, making it's use for firearms purchase from an FFL a moot point. It doesn't need to be checked at the time of purchase, it just needs to be confiscated in the event of a felony conviction.
     
  9. Hanzo581

    Hanzo581 Member

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    It's a piece of paper, there is no way to reliably confiscate in the event of a felony. We're trying to figure out how that piece of papers power is tracked.
     
  10. Gary Gill

    Gary Gill Member

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    Yes, I have a Indiana license to carry a handgun.
     
  11. Hanzo581

    Hanzo581 Member

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    So at the end of the day, what I am trying to figure out, is how they check to ensure that piece of paper in your hand (your CCW card) is still valid. Do they enter in your CCW number into some state police site and it comes up as valid or invalid? Just being convicted of a felony doesn't magically make your permit physically disappear.
     
  12. Fine Figure of a Man

    Fine Figure of a Man Member

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    Sounds the same as Iowa. A carry permit proves you have had a background check. I have to fill out the form saying I'm a good guy, not a terrorist or a wife beater then I pay for it walk out with a gun. My understanding is the form doesn't get sent in either. The dealer has to keep it on file in case there is ever a problem or just a random audit.
     
  13. Sav .250

    Sav .250 Member

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    Asking for opinions unless facts are included leaves you with just that.....an opinion.
     
  14. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    Actually, he did ask for facts, not opinions. The fact is, an Indiana resident who has a valid lifetime license to carry a handgun does not have to have a background check performed when purchasing a firearm. https://www.atf.gov/file/58376/download That's that. Yes, it is theoretically possible for someone to have a lifetime license, get convicted of a felony, fail to turn in their license in accordance with the law, and then go buy a firearm. Given the fact that police officers have nearly twice the felony rate that CCW permit holders in this country do, and they also are qualified to buy firearms in Indiana without a background check, I really don't think that the CCW permit BGC exemption is cause for concern. Not unless you're going to express the same concern about the LEO exemption too at least.
     
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  15. Sav .250

    Sav .250 Member

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    bearcreek:
    Not wanting to beat a dead horse (figure of speech) the poster asked," anyone know the process.....?
    He not ask "for facts" as you stated.
    Either way, You posted a link. Hope that helps the original poster.
     
  16. Hanzo581

    Hanzo581 Member

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    So just to clarify. The below situation is possible.

    1. Get Indiana Lifetime CCW
    2. Commit and convicted of felony
    3. Don't turn in card
    4. Get out of prison
    5. Grab card and take to gun shop
    6. Give card to salesman, check no to "have you ever been convicted of a felony" on 4473
    7. Buy gun and walk out
     
  17. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    Yes, as far as I can determine based on Indiana and Federal law, that is possible.
     
  18. jrmiddleton425

    jrmiddleton425 Member

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    If a sale proceeds under the aforementioned circumstances, it would be illegal on the Federal level. Does the FFL dealer know the license is revoked? I don't know.

    According to this...http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/indiana.pdf
    ...it says on the back of the card in all caps THIS LICENSE IS SUBJECT TO SUSPENSION AND/OR REVOCATION FOR FELONY ARREST AND/OR IMPROPER OR RECKLESS USE OF A HANDGUN.
     
  19. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    jrmiddleton425 writes:

    It goes without saying it would be illegal (against Federal and State laws) for the buyer to proceed in the manner described.

    It would only be illegal for the seller if the seller has any cause to believe the buyer isn't eligible to receive a firearm.
     
  20. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Member

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    Not an answer, but a point of information that maybe can add to the general concept under discussion.

    I'm a KY permit holder. We are exempt from NICS if we show our permits when buying a gun.

    You ever see any of those lists of "annual gun sales" done by some media outlets that lists KY (population around 4 million) near the top every year? They're not using actual purchases: they're using NICS checks and equating them with purchases, which is flawed data. The Kentucky State Police run a NICS check on all of us once a month, so that figure is inflated quite a bit unless we all buy a dozen guns a year.

    If they get a hit a trooper is dispatched to find you and confiscate your card. That's why they run the checks. So the scenario described by the OP couldn't happen in their neighbor to the south unless the miscreant managed to dodge the KSP.
     
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  21. Sunray

    Sunray Member

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    "...if he gets a felony and holds onto the card..." If he commits a felony and keeps the State CCW licence is not committing another felony?
    "...State Police run a NICS check on all of us once a month..." That not violate your privacy rights?
    "...we're arguing about gun laws..." Read 'em. Most jurisdictions have the actual laws posted on-line these days.
     
  22. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Member

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    How? When you apply for the permit you are claiming to not be a felon. They are just verifying that continues to be true. They aren't posting the results to Facebook.

    It's not like running repeated credit checks that cause my rating to go down. I don't see how I am harmed in any way, and the information they are accessing is already in the possession of the government anyway.

    I'm sure somebody will come along and call me a sheeple. Those people can feel free to move here and not get a permit in protest.
     
  23. JB357MAG

    JB357MAG Member

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    In Indiana you MUST fill out a 4473. Carry licence or not, THAT'S IT.

    In the past you could avoid a 4473 with a carry lic but not any more.

    Unless it is a person to person sale, then its up to the seller.

    Jimmy
     
  24. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    That isn't what the document's I posted said. Perhaps that was old info though. Could you post a link to where you got your information?
     
  25. JB357MAG

    JB357MAG Member

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    I live in Indiana, I have a carry licence and any gun store I've been to makes me do a 4473.

     
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