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Question about Indiana

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Hanzo581, Mar 27, 2017.

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  1. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    That doesn't mean that it's a state requirement. I'm not saying you're wrong but just because FFL's do it doesn't mean they're legally required to. In my experience the average FFL knows less about firearms laws and are usually less willing to provide corroborating documentation than many of the people on this forum.
     
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  2. Hanzo581

    Hanzo581 Member

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    This is great info, now I just need to find out if the same applies to Indiana.
     
  3. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/permanent-brady-permit-chart
    downloaded 17 Apr 2017 6:08amEDT

    Permanent Brady Permit Chart
    Prepared by: ATF Office of Enforcement Programs and Services.
    Last updated: June 10, 2014
    Note: Notwithstanding the dates set forth below, permits qualify as alternatives to the background check requirements of the Brady law for no more than 5 years from the date of issuance. The permit must be valid under State law in order to qualify as a Brady alternative.
    State / Territory Qualifying Permits
    Alabama Concealed weapons permit issued on or after August 1, 2013, qualifies as an alternative to the background check requirement.
    Alaska Concealed weapons permits marked NICS-Exempt
    American Samoa None
    Arizona Concealed weapons permits qualify.
    Arkansas Concealed weapons permits issued on or after April 1, 1999 qualify. *
    California Entertainment Firearms Permit only
    Colorado None
    Connecticut None
    Delaware None *
    District of Columbia None *
    Florida None *
    Georgia Georgia firearms licenses qualify.
    Guam None *
    Hawaii Permits to acquire and licenses to carry qualify.
    Idaho Concealed weapons permits qualify.
    Illinois None
    Indiana None
    Iowa Permits to acquire and permits to carry concealed weapons qualify.
    Kansas Concealed handgun licenses issued on or after July 1, 2010 qualify as alternatives to the background check.
    Kentucky Concealed Deadly Weapons License (CDW) and Judicial Special Status CDW issued on or after July 12, 2006 qualify.
    Louisiana Concealed handgun permits issued on or after March 9, 2015 qualify.
    Maine None *
    Maryland None *
    Massachusetts None *
    Michigan Licenses to Purchase a Pistol qualify. Concealed Pistol Licenses (CPLs) issued on or after November 22, 2005, qualify as an alternative to a National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) check. CPLs issued prior to November 22, 2005 and Temporary Concealed Pistol Licenses do not qualify as NICS alternative.
    Minnesota None *
    Mississippi License to carry concealed pistol or revolver issued to individuals under Miss. Stat. Ann. § 45-9-101 qualify. (NOTE: security guard permits issued under Miss. Stat. Ann. §97-37-7 do not qualify).
    Missouri None *
    Montana Concealed weapons permits qualify.
    Nebraska Concealed handgun permit qualifies as an alternative. Handgun purchase certificates qualify.
    Nevada Concealed carry permit issued on or after July 1, 2011, qualify.
    New Hampshire None
    New Jersey None
    New Mexico None
    New York None
    North Carolina Permits to purchase a handgun and concealed handgun permits qualify.
    North Dakota Concealed weapons permits issued on or after December 1, 1999 qualify. *
    Northern Mariana Islands None
    Ohio Concealed weapons permits issued on or after March 23, 2015, qualifies as an alternative to the background check requirements.
    Oklahoma None *
    Oregon None *
    Pennsylvania None
    Puerto Rico None
    Rhode Island None
    South Carolina Concealed weapons permits qualify.
    South Dakota None *
    Tennessee None
    Texas Concealed weapons permits qualify.
    U.S. Virgin Islands None
    Utah Concealed weapons permits qualify.
    Vermont None
    Virginia None
    Washington Concealed pistol license issued on or after July 22, 2011 qualify.
    West Virginia Concealed handgun license issued on or after June 4, 2014 qualify.
    Wisconsin None
    Wyoming Concealed weapons permits qualify.
    * While certain permits issued in these states prior to November 30, 1998 were “grandfathered” as Brady alternatives, none of these grandfathered permits would still be valid under State law as of November 30, 2003.
    Last Reviewed September 22, 2016


    It's not just carry permit as alternative to the NICS background check. The difference between Indiana and Kentucky on CCW as a pass on FF4473 background check also illustrates a problem with universal reciprocity. State permits are simply not uniform. Differences in carry permits are greater than differences in state drivers licenses.

    I am a Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit holder and I am not exempt from NICS check on a FF4473 gun purchase:
    (a) the Department of Safety and Homeland Security did state and federal background checks when my THCP was issued,
    (b) there are no followup BG checks on permit holders (I queried the state Department of Safety: if I were charged with a crime, the judge should know from my drivers license records that I have a THCP (query TDL it shows THCP status; query TN car tag number it shows TDL number and THCP status of registered car tag holder) and it is the judge's responsibility to take the THCP and send it to Nashville pending adjudication of the charge), and
    (c) the federal BG check replaced the state Application for Permission to Purchase a Handgun with local BG check by sheriff (county gunshop) or chief of police (city gunshop), so the state NICS contact must be used by an FFL for gun purchases: they do a TICS check (for all firearms) as a substitute for the permit to purchase a handgun requirement, then do an NICS BG check.
    There are state and federal reasons a THCP is not a substitute for an NICS check. Your local laws may vary.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
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  4. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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  5. Theohazard

    Theohazard Member

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    Not necessarily. Just because a state's permit qualifies for a NICS exemption, that doesn't mean the state allows it. Washington's CPL qualifies us for a NICS exemption according to the ATF, but we still have to do a NICS check every time we buy a firearm here.

    The only thing a CPL does for you here in WA is allow you to skip the waiting period on a handgun, but you still have to have a NICS check every time you buy a firearm.
     
  6. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    That document conclusively answers the OP's question. In this case it doesn't make a difference if the state allows it or not. The ATF document very clearly says, "permits qualify as alternatives to the background check requirements of the Brady law for no more than 5 years from the date of issuance", which automatically disqualifies the Indiana lifetime license, at least for a period longer than 5 years from it's issuance.

    Edit: This is assuming that that document is up to date. At the bottom it says it was last reviewed Sep 22, 2016.
     
  7. macgrumpy

    macgrumpy Member

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    Laws don't stop anybody from committing a crime, they are just rules that dictate how they will be punished after they've been convicted of a crime.

    Yes, an Indiana resident could use a lifetime permit to avoid a background check for up to 5 years after the date of issuance, assuming that the gun store clerk knows the law and actually paid attention to the date of issuance.

    But don't forget also that many stores will not allow a purchase of any gun without a NICS check because of the fear that they would be sued if the person committed a crime with the purchased gun, there is no law that prevents them from running the check if they choose to do so. You might get upset that they ran the check even though they don't have to but no court is going to fault them for following Federal law and attempting to ensure the safety of the public.

    I work for a gun sales store and we run every purchase through NICS even if you do have a concealed carry permit even though my state law says that a concealed carry permit is a valid substitute for a background check. If you are denied a purchase, even though you have that permit in hand, we wont sell to you. Additionally, if you are denied then the FBI notifies local law enforcement almost immediately via the NICS messaging system. What the local law enforcement does is up to them but they are notified that some person who might be committing a felony has just been denied purchase of a gun.
     
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  8. AABEN

    AABEN Member

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    The state take your CCP if you do a crime that makes you a fallen
     
  9. Nacho Man

    Nacho Man Member

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    Ive been to alot of gunshops in Indiana, bought numerous guns. Ive never been asked for my ltch.
    All get 4473 and call or computer nics check.
    Now for private deals you can ask the buyer to see a ltch to make sure they're not a felon,
    but I see where you going with this op. I do not know if the police confiscate the license after the conviction,
    but pretty sure your file will be updated in the computer and continued use of the license in a dishonest manor they'd probably get another felony.
    The seller would probably not know hes selling to a convict
     
  10. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    What is "a fallen"?

    You need to re-read the thread. The question has already been answered. Read post #28.
     
  11. jcwit

    jcwit member

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    Indiana does not issue a concealed carry permit.

    We have a license to carry any way we see fit, open or concealed!

    I have had a license for years, and I still fill out the 4473 at the time of purchase.
     
  12. jcwit

    jcwit member

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    That was true years and years ago!
     
  13. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    What was true years and years ago?
     
  14. jcwit

    jcwit member

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    Reread your post #24 on this thread, don't think I need to spell it out for you!
     
  15. jcwit

    jcwit member

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    If you purchase a firearm in the state of Indiana from a FFL one needs to fill out form 4473 at the time of purchase and wait till the computer/phone background check is complete regardless of ones carry license. Law enforcement and retired law enforcement may be different!

    Don't believe it? Try to get away with it! Argue all you wish!
     
  16. Hanzo581

    Hanzo581 Member

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    Who doesn't believe it? The ATF clearly states in Indiana having the permit does not exempt you. So yeah, 4473 and background for all gun purchases from FFLs.

    https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/permanent-brady-permit-chart
     
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  17. jcwit

    jcwit member

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  18. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    No, all purchases from FFLs in Indiana go through NICS.

    Feds stopped recognizing Indiana's LTCH as a valid waiver in 2003 or so.
     
  19. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    I find it amazing that the pre-2003 law is still in the rumor mill, but such is the gun culture. Rumors never die.

    Here's the ATFE letter to Indiana FFLs, September of 2003:

    https://www.atf.gov/file/83766/download
     
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  20. Hanzo581

    Hanzo581 Member

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    Yeah, as soon as the guy said it I was thinking it was wrong, unless he was shopping at some shady dealer or something. How can someone not remember filling out paperwork and waiting on a BG check?
     
  21. AABEN

    AABEN Member

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    YOU have fallen out of the good side of the law now on the dad side LOL
     
  22. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    What? Good side of the law on the dad side? ***?
     
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