Question For You C&R Gurus and Junkies

[Blackcloud6]

I sit corrected.

EOD Guy thanks for the link to the letter. I had not seen any ruling on the issue and was going by what I read in the ATF documents. I go very conservatiely when reading regs and such. Better to be safe, than in hot water.... (I work for the government BTW)

I agree with Cabinetman as to: "As a matter of fact, it won't be long until you encounter an FFL who won't even accept your C&R license for a bonefide, listed firearm. It's happened to all of us. Go figure. "

I've had this happend a few times. Sometime I think some Dealers look down their noses at C&Rs...Why? I don't know but it sure has stopped a sale or two.

I have found out that if you say "I have an FFL." Instead of "I have a C&R." They usually don't blink, take your signed license and money and hand over the firearm.

 

[cratz2]

Well I'm no antieuqmilitaryboltactionrifleaholic, I tend to shoot the poo with pretty much anyone that tends to be pretty knowledgable about things. My understand has long been this:

1. A gun is a curio & relic when the ATF says it is.
2. You can make whatever legal alterations to a rifle that is listed as a curio & relic but you can not sell it as a curio & relic afterwards if said changes include pretty much any modernization.
3. Don't ask the ATF anything

So what you're suggesting Kharn, is that I can take a Mauser rifle, strip the serialized and dated action from it, rebarrel it in 300 Win Mag, put a 4.5-14 power scope on it, put it in a custom tactical fiberglass stock and sell it as a curio and relic to anyone I desire under the curio & relic status as long as the action was dated 50 years ago?

That is very specifically not my understanding of the law.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

I have a really dumb procedural question. If you take a C&R rifle and "sporterize" it, removing it's C&R status, would you then need to remove it from your bound book by filling out the disposition as transfering the gun to yourself? If so, should it be done on a gun that you still have all of the original parts and could easily return to it's military configuration? As Blackcloud6 said, better safe than sorry.

 

[cratz2]

If you take a C&R rifle and "sporterize" it, removing it's C&R status, would you then need to remove it from your bound book by filling out the disposition as transfering the gun to yourself?

I wouldn't think so... I think the C&R status just relates to how the gun can be legally transferred. Not what can be owned. But I wouldn't trust what anyone on any forum, regardless of how well informed I thought they were, told me about federal legalities.

 

[MonkeyMan]

HKMP5SD, actually, that's not a dumb question. There's been some debate generated over similar questions on another forum I visit. From what I've read, if it was me, I would log out the converted C&R to "Private Collection" since the firearm would no longer be C&R. Just my $.02, YMMV.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Let's see if I can make it even dumber.

If it is proper procedure to transfer the sporterized gun from your C&R bound book and to your private collection and given it is now a "modern" firearm, if you live in a state which does not allow person-to-person transfers, would you have to tranfer it from your 03-FFL to an 01-FFL and then have him transfer it to you?

 

[Kharn]

cratz2:
Going off the 50 year or on the list rule, I'd say it would probably be ok but a letter to the ATF asking for clarification would be a good idea (as with any questionable procedure involving firearms). I havent heard of a rule or law that removes any firearms from the C&R classification due to any circumstance (and would be greatly appreciative if someone could point me towards one), but I might be wrong as I have not read the entire book of rules and laws the ATF sent me.

Kharn

 

[Gewehr98]

Hkmp5sd, here's an addendum to your question:

If it is proper procedure to transfer the sporterized gun from your C&R bound book and to your private collection and given it is now a "modern" firearm, if you live in a state which does not allow person-to-person transfers, would you have to tranfer it from your 03-FFL to an 01-FFL and then have him transfer it to you?

And how long a waiting period would you have to impose upon yourself when you transferred the gun to yourself? (Assuming you're in a state that mandates waiting periods)

 

[Gewehr98]

Here's the reference about original configuration:

From the ATF Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide, ATF Publication P 5300.4 (01-00)

Under General Information, Items of Interest, Section 8, Paragraph c, Page 119:

c. Licensed Collector's Activities

ATF has recognized only assembled firearms as curios or relics. Moreover, ATF's classification of surplus military firearms as curios or relics has extended only to those firearms in their original military configuration.

Frames or receivers of curios or relics are not generally recognized as curios or relics by ATF since they are not of special interest or value as collectors' items. Specifically, they do not meet the definition of curio or relic in 27 CFR 178.11 as firearms of special interest to collectors by reason of a quality other than is ordinarily associated with sporting firearms or offensive or defensive weapons.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

No problem there!

Florida exempts CCW holders from the waiting period!

 

[Kharn]

Gewehr98: Thank you for posting that information.

Kharn

 

[EOD Guy]

EOD Guy thanks for the link to the letter. I had not seen any ruling on the issue and was going by what I read in the ATF documents. I go very conservatiely when reading regs and such. Better to be safe, than in hot water.... (I work for the government BTW)

You're welcome. I've also been working with Federal regulations for most of my adult life (I won't say how long!). One of the first things I learned was that logic and common sense do not always apply. Agencies do use it once in a while, just often enough to keep you off guard.

Rich