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Question on selling...

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by stevek, Aug 14, 2008.

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  1. stevek

    stevek Member

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    I am thinking about selling a four-six of our pistols and a rifle or two. If I do put them up for sale, will this be an issue with any government agency for selling them without my being a FFL holder? All local, state, and federal laws for private sales will be scrupulously followed, but I want to make sure that I won't have any "surprise" visitors. Thanks.
     
  2. jr45

    jr45 Member

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    If you follow the laws, you'll be fine. Here in Virginia, FTF sales require no paper work, just look at their I.D. (to verify age and residence) and sell.
     
  3. just carl

    just carl Member

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    Be real carefull of the buyers. Don't try to use the internet since you could not possibly know who you are selling to. Remember that although some things may be legal in your area of the country, they may well be completely illigal elswhere. For example if you sold a gun to a person in Chicago, they and you would be breaking about a million laws. Slight exageration, but there are a lot of them here. In Illinois it seams there are gun laws that differ every ten feet it feels like so you really have to know who you are selling to.
     
  4. stevek

    stevek Member

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    Thanks for the replies. My primary concern is regarding the number of sales. In NJ each buyer will have to have a pistol purchase permit, and Firearm ID card. Out of state sales will be shipped FFL to FFL. I'm just wanting to make sure that the .gov doesn't view me as needing a personal FFL to sell 4-6 pistols...
     
  5. texas bulldog

    texas bulldog Member

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    i would be wary of saying anything at all about what might be legal/illegal in new jersey. you really need to find some state-specific information about FTF sales.
     
  6. 230RN
    • Contributing Member

    230RN Marines raising the left-leaning Pisa tower.

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    Yes. Once again, for all posters who have no locality info in their profiles:

    Where are you?
     
  7. Smokey Joe

    Smokey Joe Member

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    FTF...

    Stevek--You don't say in what state you'd be doing the selling, however in all but the most restrictive locales (Chicago, California, New York City, and Illinois come to mind) FTF sales are completely unregulated.

    The party hands you the cash, you hand them the firearm, you smile and part ways, and that's that. No Federal paperwork on a FTF sale. It has to be a resident of your state, though. And some states expect you to collect sales tax and hand it over to them, although AFAIK there's no effective method of enforcing that.

    For your own peace of mind I suggest that a bill of sale be used, stating the buyer's and the seller's identity, naming the goods and the amount of $$. I include the document that I use; you make 2 copies, both parties sign both copies, and both parties are protected. The document never becomes public unless in the future some question is raised about the sale--which IMX rarely happens.

    BILL OF SALE

    Buyer name: ________________________________________________________
    Address: ___________________________________________________________
    Seller name: ____________________________________________
    Address:
    ________________________________________________________________
    Goods: ONE Rifle (or whatever): (Describe, including make, model, and serial number)
    Include any extras to be included in the sale. (Case, ammo, 'scope, whatever. Include serial numbers there, too.)
    Selling price: $XXX.00.
    NOTICE: GOODS ARE SOLD IN STRICTLY AS-IS CONDITION. Seller warrants that he owns the goods and has a perfect right to sell same.
    Buyer warrants that (s)he is in no way legally prohibited from buying the above, and intends to use same in a completely legal manner.
    NO OTHER WARRANTIES.
    This document serves as a receipt for the selling price, for the buyer, and as a receipt for the listed goods for the seller.

    Buyer sig: __________________________________________________________
    date: _________________________

    Seller sig: __________________________________________________________
    date: _________________________
    SELLER’S COPY
    ******** ******** ******** ********
    (Buyer gets an identical copy) The above handily fits all on one letter-size page.

    I don't sell to those below 18; I don't deal with obvious gang-bangers or such. If it smells like the goods might be stolen, or in some other sense "wrong," I just don't do business. Note that I don't include any identifier such as a drivers' license number. I feel that such would be intrusive--and, hey, I'm NOT the police, nor trying to do their job. So far, it has worked for me, and no prospective buyer nor seller has shied away from a sale because of my wanting to use this document.

    Hope you can work it out.
     
  8. Soybomb

    Soybomb Member

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    I say hogwash ;) If you're selling out of state you're shipping to a ffl, there's no one better to sell to.
     
  9. stevek

    stevek Member

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    My apologies, we are living in the PRNJ aka Corzinistan. Again it is just the number of sales that I am wondering about...at what number of sales does a FFL in my name become necessary? I just don't want to seem as though I'm a business, as opposed to a private individual selling some personal firearms.
     
  10. Soybomb

    Soybomb Member

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    There is no number, you need a ffl to do business. If you're not doing business, you can't have a dealer's ffl. If you were buying new guns and flipping them often or making a significant portion of your yearly income from buying and selling guns then I'd start to worry about being a dealer. But if you're truly just selling off some of your collection there is nothing to worry about.
     
  11. nambu1

    nambu1 Member

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    If you do not sell FTF, the handguns should be shipped to a FFL. Depending on the rifle, it should sent to either a FFL or C & R holder.
     
  12. Majic

    Majic Member

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    If you sell out of state the gun has to go thru an FFL dealer. They would know their laws and govern if, how, and when the buyer can get it from him.
    Not slight exageration but total fabrication. The FFL dealer could not complete his part of the transfer so there would be no sale even though money has changed hands.
     
  13. scrat

    scrat Member

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    why not go to your local gun shop. See if they can put them on display and do a consignment for you. In the end the guns will be properly sold and you dont have to worry about any paperwork.
     
  14. Griz44

    Griz44 Member

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    I advise anyone who sells a gun, even to a friend. Get a local or long distant FFL involved. Let them do the transfer. That will absolve you, the seller, of any and all responsibility of that person being legal to own and of that gun being traced back to you if it gets used illegally. You do a legal transfer for a vehicle even if the sale is to a family member. Do the same with your guns. 15 bucks buys a lot of piece of mind....
     
  15. stevek

    stevek Member

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    That would be a good idea except they charge a 30% commission :eek: and if they don't sell, I have to go get a NJ pistol purchase permit for each of my own guns to be returned to me, along with paying for another NICS check. We are in the process of trying to get the house ready to show/sell so we can get out of the PRNJ.
     
  16. 230RN
    • Contributing Member

    230RN Marines raising the left-leaning Pisa tower.

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    "Corzinistan"

    Now that's funny. That's really funny.

    Doesn't work with Schwarzeneggeristan, though.

    But it does with Bloombergistan.
     
  17. Smokey Joe

    Smokey Joe Member

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    Transfer...

    There is no Constitutional right to keep and bear vehicles.
    I have friends who feel this way abt. selling a firearm. It costs $$ to deal this way, but if you need it for peace of mind, well, in this case, you pays your money and you takes your peace of mind.
     
  18. stevek

    stevek Member

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    Works better if you take out the "i"...Schwarzeneggerstan :p
     
  19. FCFC

    FCFC Has Never Owned a Gun

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    What are you selling, stevek? Any nice revolvers?
     
  20. Griz44

    Griz44 Member

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    Very true Smokey, but let's not forget that there is no Constitutional right to keep and bear arms for individuals that have felonies and some other more specific crimes on their record. The FBI and the ATF can hand out a lot of misery to a person for selling a gun to someone who has no legal right to own one. Any seller - dealer or individual - has legal obligation to verify identity, not sell to a known illegal drug user, a mentally deficient person, a felon etc..... Believe me, I am not a lawyer or a legal adviser in any fashion. I just know what the BATFE basic rules are how much grief you can catch for screwing it up. The point being, if you are going to sell even your personal firearm, why take the risk? If you don't know the person, a few bucks for a legal transfer is just good insurance that it will never come back to haunt you.
     
  21. stevek

    stevek Member

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    Not at this time. Still trying to figure out exactly which pistols will get the heave-ho :eek:
     
  22. TEDDY

    TEDDY Member

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    selling

    why not wait until after you have moved.if the new location is to a gun friendly state your problem is solved.:rolleyes:;)
     
  23. bluetopper

    bluetopper Member

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    I do not have an FFL and I sell handguns on gunbroker.com quite frequently.

    Easy and very little hassle.
     
  24. SCKimberFan

    SCKimberFan Member

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    Nope, however, The People's Republik of ********** comes to mind though.


    +1. It would save a lot of headaches, unless you are moving somewhere more restrictive than Corzinistan. :uhoh:
     
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