Question re: 870P order #'s

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Nematocyst-870,

I am also in the market for a pump action shotgun, and I also have my eye on the 870P.

I am gonna wait until the 20th of January to check out the gun show, and hopefully find a good deal.

I am currently looking at the 870P...but with the low profile sights and the tricked-out new KNOXX SpecOps Recoil-Reducing Stock.

SpecOps_Sheriff_topview_tou.gif


The KNOXX SpecOps stock has gotten raving reviews, and it also felt incredibly comfortable when held. One of the things that REALLY attracted me to it, was the ability to adjust the stock length. (I am not too tall, hence an adjustable stock length is a cherry atop my sundae). The adjustable stock is also really nice if you're into flack vests, as the "ordinary size" is just to cumbersome.

And if you wanna see a picture of the 870P carrying the stock, check it out on the Remington website. Click here to open the Law Enforcement Catalogue (PDF file), and scroll down to page 16. (If I did this correctly, it should take you DIRECTLY to page 16). *cross your fingers*

I believe it's called the 870P 18" XS.

Personally, because it is ONLY gonna be used for home defense, I would prefer the shortest barrel. (14")? But since California law says that 18" is the minimum...well...that's where I'ze be.

Let us know what you finally get.

In Christ: Raymond
 
Don't mean to bust anyones bubble, but look around for good prices.

I have a "Big 5 Sporting Good Store" in my neighborhood, and they are selling them for around $315.00 to $350.00, depending on the accessories.

I have talked to a few buddies, and during certain times of the year they have found them for as low as 215.00. (And this is the San Francisco Bay Area - the most stupidly expensive place to live).

I am of the camp that if you can find one, stripped and for super cheap, then go for it. You can always add on accessories as you see fit.

Myself, I am looking for a solid "bare-boned" one. I will then add on the sights and stock if need be. (Look around and you can find the stocks and sights for a pretty good price on E-Bay or other places).

But if I find an 870P at the gun show with the accessories I want (see my earlier post), at a decent price, then I'll purchase it there on the spot. That's the whole fun of the gun shows - seeing all the new stuff, and then Wheelin' n Dealin'.

And in closing, you can always talk to the manager of a sporting goods store, and ask him/her to reduce the price. Remember, the prices they sell their products at are NOT set in stone. Most of the times they are the MSRP. (Manufacturers SUGGESTED Retail Price).

Some of my best deals (motorcycles, Performance Center wheelguns, 1911's, etc.) have been purchased by offering them a decent price for the product while waving HARD, COLD, CASH in their faces. :what: It's very difficult to say "No" when they are guaranteed a sale at that very moment. (Especially if you are offering them a decent price for a slow moving item).

Money talks.

But then again, don't go all "Ghetto" on them and demand the item be reduced to something ridiculous like $200.00...and then throw, "But it's the Manufacturer's SUGGESTED Retail Price" in their face.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

Best wishes, and always keep an eye out for dem basement bargains.

In Christ: Raymond
 
RM, and others,

When I first started this thread, I was still looking, exploring options, etc.

I, too, was looking at the Knoxx stocks, and some other gizmos for the 870P.

I bought a pretty plain jane 870 from Territorial Supply in Idaho.
(Highly recommended; good prices; fine folks.).

My 870P has synth stock, parkerized barrel, bead sight.

I thought I might replace the stock with a Knoxx stock,
and put a mag extension on it, but so far, haven't felt the need.
This one works just fine for me as is.

The only thing I've done to it (other than BA/UU/R) is to add a sling.
Next, I may add a 26" or 28" barrel for hunting.
(This gun's main niche is SD at the base camp.)

I'm very happy with my 870P.
IMO, there is no finer shotgun for this niche.

YMMV.

Good luck.

Nem
 
Hey Folks,

I have another question for yall.

I did some looking, and the 870P differs from the 870 Express in a couple of important ways. Below is an excerpt from the Remington website:


Structurally the two receivers are identical. The only difference will be that the Police model will have a more durable finish. The magazine tubes will be slightly different. The Model 870 Express will have two indents in the magazine tube to accommodate the new style plastic magazine spring retainer. However, this prevents the Express model from accepting a magazine tube extension without alteration to the tube.

Other differences will be that the Police model includes sling swivel studs, a shorter fore-end, heavier shell latches, a heavier sear spring and a heavier magazine spring.B]


So now that I see the differences, I am assured that the 870P is definitely the one to get.

But now I am up in the air about the 870P or the MARINE MAGNUM.

rem_5012.jpg


Would ANYONE know the difference between the 870P and the MARINE MAGNUM? (Besides the obvious finish).

I am UNsure if the "innards" of the MARINE MAGNUM are the same as the 870P. (Does the MARINE MAGNUM also have the beefier springs, heavier shell latches, etc)?

I have heard that they "should" be the same, as the MARINE MAGNUM was also originally designed for PD use. But I'm not sure if that is true or not.

So if anyone should know the answer, please drop us a line (or two) on this thread.

I'll try to contact Remington on Monday to see if I can get an answer "straight from the horses mouth".

Thanks in advance.

In Christ: Raymond
 
Well folks,

here's the deal.

I called Remington about the differences between the 870P and the 870 Marine Magnum, and here's what they said: "The Marine Magnum is basically the same as the 870Express. It has NONE of the stiffer springs and beefier shell latches that the Police model has. The biggest difference is the crazy coating on ALL the parts".

So here's what I figured: I don't need the heavier sear spring (that's basically for Police who do not want to be walking around with a "hair trigger"), and I don't need the parkerized finish (cuz the finish on the Marine Magnum will blow away the parkerized finish for protection against the elements), and the magazine springs can be replaced with a beefy monster one from Wolff springs for about $5.50.

So the only thing I'm still up in the air about is whether I can swap-out the shell latches for the beefier ones on the 870P. (I'll have to call Remington again to ask them about that, as I forgot to ask them the first time).

In case yall need the Remington number, here it is: 888.736.4867 Ext 8795

So here's what I did. (Scuze me if'n I'm not supposed to post this).

I purchased the Marine Magnum from the cheapest place I could find selling it.

Then I purchased a beefy Wolff Spring magazine spring.

And finally I ordered the Knoxx SpecOps stock (recoil-reducing) from the cheapest place I could find it new. (Anything over $100 ships for FREE). I purchased it new as I gotta have the warranty - even though I had found a slightly used one for about $20.00 cheaper on E-Bay. (And the guy lives 4 minutes away from me - so I could have picked it up and saved the S/H fees).

So now it's just a waiting game for all the parts to arrive and get put together.

I usually purchase all my weapons tactical matte black but for one or two exceptions. (Performance Center 627 V-Comp and my Kimber Eclipse Custom II in 10mm) But since it is primarily going to be used for home defense, I could care less if it was a shiny eye-blinding chrome. (OK, OK...I'm lying. There's NO WAY I'm gonna be totin' around a shotgun at the range that shines like spinners on a ghetto Caddie). :confused:

So that's the rest of the story.

I will post my conclusions when the parts arrive and I get to put a few pellets and slugs downrange.

This will be my first PUMP-ACTION shotgun, so I'm really looking forward to mastering it's use.

Thanks again.

In Christ: Raymond

PS: Let me eat shoe leather and correct my MIS-statement from a previous post. The models that could be found dirt-cheap were the 870Express models. The 870P models still carry a hefty price tag in the S.F. Bay Area.
 
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It's not possible to change out the shell latches unless you have a special staking tool.
The latches are staked in place, and an ordinary punch can't re-stake them.

I doubt you'd ever notice any difference between the Police latches and the standard latches Remington uses on the Wingmaster and Express so I'd recommend leaving the latches alone.

The Magnum Marine is NOT built to the same standard as the Police model.
The MM was NOT intended for use by the Police, it was built specifically for use around salt water and boats by "civilians".
The only gun Remington recommends to law enforcement are genuine Police models.

The Magnum Marine is a true Express gun which means it has the Express plastic trigger group, locking safety (possibly discontinued) and is generally a rougher, less well polished and smoothed gun.

This doesn't mean it's junk, or weak, it just means it's not built to the same high standards that the Police models are built to.

The Express, even the Magnum Marine is built to sell at a "budget" price, well below the top-of-the-line Wingmaster, and not as expensive as the heavily inspected and more carefully built and finished Police models are.
 
Wow, that's weird.

I say that because the MARINE MAGNUM is going for between $100 to $150 more than the 870P basic models.

I just shot Remington another e-mail to see if they could be a bit more specific, as I am getting conflickting responses.

One of the Remington guys I spoke to said that the MARINE MAGNUM is the same as the 870EXPRESS. But one of the Remington guys e-mailed me back and said that the MARINE MAGNUM is the same as the 870P Police model.

Whew!!!!!

So corn-fusing!!!

I figured that if the MARINE MAGNUM was the same as the 870EXPRESS, that I would just swap-out the spring and latches. Because in my minds-eye, I figured that the smoother edges would be there because of the special nickel-plating.

OK, so now it's just time to wait.

I have ordered everything but the shotgun itself. I was gonna order it today (Jan 9th), but now everything is on hold until I can get the correct information. (There's no way I'm gonna purchase a weapon without knowing EXACTLY what I am purchasing).

I've also requested info on the swapping-out of the shell latches.

Thanks again. I'll keep yall posted on their response.

In Christ: Raymond
 
Here's what Remington Law Enforcement Division has to say about the Express and Police models:

REMINGTON ARMS COMPANY, LE DIVISION
Important differences between Remington 870 Police and 870 Express shotguns
The 870 Express has been an important part of Remington’s offering to the sporting market.
It was designed to meet a price point in the commercial market while still providing classic 870 functionality.
All of Remington’s 870’s have interchangeable parts, even if they have cosmetic differences.
It is also important to note that many manufacturers use the 870 Express platform for their Police / Combat models.
Without exception, every manufacturer who utilizes our 870 platform serves to upgrade their system to a more efficient, street worthy platform.
While the 870 Express is still an 870, the best pump shotgun on the market, there are some very important cosmetic and functional differences between it and the 870 Police.
To our customers in Law Enforcement, Military, Corrections, and Security, whose lives depend upon the unfailing performance of Remington shotguns, the Police modifications are of paramount importance. Synopses of the variances are provided below.

• 870 Police shotguns go thru a special 23 station check list – ranging from visual inspection, functional testing, test firing, and final inspection.

• All Police shotguns are assembled in a “special build area” at the plant in Ilion, NY. This section is secured and serves only to build LE and Military shotguns, with the same factory personnel working at that assignment each shift.

• All parts that enter the “special build area” are visually inspected by hand to ensure top quality and functionality.

• Due to heavy recoil in buck and slug loads, all 870 Police guns have a longer magazine spring which ensures positive feed and function.

• A heavier sear spring is used to generate a reliable, positive trigger pull between 5 and 8 lbs.

• A heavier carrier dog spring is used to ensure when the carrier elevates the shell, it will be held there until the bolt can push it into the chamber. This ensures positive feeding when using heavier payload rounds.

• Police shotguns do not have an ISS (Integrated Safety System) which is a locking mechanism on the safety of commercial shotguns. This type of locking mechanism can cause delay to an officer who needs the weapon but does not have the appropriate key. LE shotguns have the standard, proven, cross bolt safety.

• The fore-end on the Express model is longer and not compatible with many police shotgun vehicle racks.

• The Police shotguns utilize the heavy duty SPEEDFEED Stocks and Fore-ends.

• The Express model will not allow for the addition of an extension tube without physical modification to the tube and barrel, which can nullify the warranty.

• The Express model has a BEAD BLAST BLUE finish while the Police models utilize either High Luster bluing or Parkerization.

• The Express model utilizes a synthetic trigger housing while the Police models use a compressed metal housing.

• The Police shotgun barrel is locked down with a “ball detent” system in conjunction with the magazine cap vs. a lesser grade “synthetic magazine spring retainer” lock down as used on the Express system.

• The receivers used in Police guns are “vibra honed” to smooth out rough finishes and remove burrs before parkerization or bluing.

• Police shotguns use machined ejectors and extractors, as opposed to powdered metal cast which are utilized on the Express models.
===================================================

Note that the Magnum Marine IS NOT built in Remington's LE shotgun facility.
The reason the MM may cost more than the basic Police guns, is due to the more expensive plated finish which costs quite a bit to apply.

One more time: The Magnum Marine IS NOT a Police gun nor is it a Police quality gun.
It's an Express gun with Express parts and quality.
 
If my choice was 870P, Marine magnum or express,
I'll take the 870P 1,000,000,000,000 times more often than either other one.

Regardless of literature, pictures, or written descriptions,
the feel of the 870P convinced me immediately that it was the gun for me.

I have zero regrets.

YMMV.
 
Nematocyst,

just out of curiosity, what did you pay for your 4403?

I'm pretty sure that I am gonna go with the 4407 at the moment. (7-shot with bead sights).

I had the night to think it over, and no matter how hot and "tricked-out" the Marine Magnum is, I just couldn't look away from the fact that it has a SYNTHETIC TRIGGER HOUSING and an MIM (Metal Injection Molded) ejector and extractor.

Geesh, that's a pet-peeve of mine - plastic & injection molded parts. I've spent "plenty a good shekel" to swap out anything that was plastic or MIM on every single one of my handguns!!!!!

Everything else I could have justified doing without. But getting chincy on the trigger housing, ejector and extractor?!

No way, Jose!

By the way, have you seen their NEW Marine Magnum XCS? (Xtreme Condition Shotgun). That puppy is pretty hot!

41037.jpg

It's got their new proprietary "Black TriNyte Corrosive Control System".

I'd like to see the specs on that one!!!

And if you look at the camouflaged SPS (Super Magnum Max Gobbler) on the same page...Hooooo-Weeeeeeeee! That puppy be pretty sweet as well.

Thanks again, and I'll keep yall posted.

In Christ: Raymond
 
Nematocyst, just out of curiosity, what did you pay for your 4403?
Click to expand...
Raymond,

My gun shop's distributors didn't have the 4403, so I had to find one on my own.

As I may have mentioned earlier in this thread, I finally found mine at Territorial Supply in Idaho, a family owned and run business. Fantastic bunch of folks: helpful, informative, patient, kind, fast delivery. You can actually talk to a real person on the phone, and there's no phone menus to deal with. I highly recommend them.

My total bill was $440. That included gun, shipping and FFL ($40). That turned out to be $15 more than a very similar gun that my gunshop had on their rack, but that one had a Speedfeed stock with cartridge storage in the stock. I didn't want that. I wanted a solid stock.

I haven't regretted that $440 for a second. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. (And I'm far from being a wealthy person; relatively poor, I am, but when I buy, I save my pennies and buy quality.)

I think you're thinking is good about buying the best quality you can.

Keep us posted about what you get.

Nem
 
Oh my goodness...wha hapen?!!

I called Territorial Supply, and they now want $511.15 for the 4407 model.

And then I called GTDist, and they wanted $489.00 for the 4407...but wouldn't ship it to California. :confused:

I asked the lady at GTDist.com WHY she wouldn't ship it to California, and she said that those were the laws. (Who's laws? It's not against the law).

Can anyone direct me to someone who sells the 4407 (870P, 7-shot with bead sights) at a decent price?

This is becoming more of a hassle than I had anticipated.

Or maybe I should say that this is becoming more of a "challenge".

Hmmm...nope. I take that back...it's definitely a hassle.

Thanks guys, and I'll await your responses.

In Christ: Raymond
 
I'm in California,

so when I purchase the shotgun I will have to pay for the shotgun, the $20.00 to get it shipped, and then another $70.00 for an FFL dealer to receive it and the 10-day background check. (To make sure you're not a felon, or suicidal, or have some type of restraining order on you, etc).

In short, I am looking for the cheapest price, as I will AUTOMATICALLY have an additional $90.00 placed atop the price tag.

That's the price of living in San Freakcisco, I tell ya!! (Actually I live two cities over from SF).

In Christ: Raymond
 
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Well, just to keep you up to date...in case yall care at all.

I ended-up purchasing the 870P (4407) at Territorial Supply for $511.15. (Thanks NEMATOCYST).

Then I gotta pay the shipping charge ($20.00), the receiving charge for the FFL holder ($45.00), and the 10-day background investigation ($25.00) - for an additional $90.00 to the price of the shotgun.

So all said and done, this shotgun will run me $601.15 out the door and into my waiting arms.

It is now Friday morning (7:40AM California time), and it should arrive within three working days.

Then upon it's arrival, it's off to the gun store to fill out all the background investigation paperwork and wait for the blasted 10-day waiting period to elapse before coming back to pick it up.

Boy...I guess this is part of the fun of purchasing a new "Big-Boy-Toy".

I am also looking at the cool Benelli Super Sport shotgun for the hunting season.

superSportFeature.jpg


Well, Folks...thanks again.

I'll keep you abreast of the situation the moment it arrives and I put some action downrange.

In Christ: Raymond
 
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Check with the transfer dealer, you may be able to go in there today and fill out the background check paperwork and get that going, before the gun comes in (so it saves you a couple of days). I was able to do that when I ordered mine (also a 4407). However, the laws may be different in your state.
 
Shappy,

I've checked with my dealer about doing just that in the past. but he disuaded me from doing so.

He said that unless it is being shipped from the actual manufacturer that could ASSURE HIM that the serial numbers will be from the very same weapon that will be shipped...he would be leary about doing so.

He mentioned that in his past experience, folks have done just that (assured him that the serial number would match the weapon)...and it DID NOT.

So to be on the safe side and save unwanted hassles, extra work, and delays...just heed to the Nestle' Quick Rabbits wisdom and remember, "Patience is a virtue". (To which I concur).

Thanks anyways, as it shows where your heart was in your suggestion.

In Christ: Raymond
 
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Hey Folks,

wanna hear something terrible? (For me)!

I purchased my 870P, then I had to have it shipped here to California.

When it arrived I had to go to the gun store to sign all the paperwork. And as I walk into the store, I find that someone is selling their mint condition 870 Max for $599.00!

What?!!! :eek:

Oh my gosh...I was sooooo bummed out.

The 870 Max has everything. A Surefire light, shell holder onto the left side of the receiver, a tactical sling with shell holders, rifle sights, etc...

Man!

I just purchased my "plain-ole, plain ole" for a total of $600.00.

I just wanted to cry.

Just c-r-y!

So if anyone is interested, let me know, and I'll put you in contact with my local gun store. (No, I'm not benefitting from it at all).

OK...that's not the main reason I am writing this post. (But it sure "should" be).

I am in the process of purchasing a scope mount for my 870P. I will be placing a red dot sight on it when it arrives the following Monday - and I want a sturdy, tried and true, scope mount for it.

I figured that a 30mm red-dot scope would fit the bill nicely. It has a multiple dot size adjustment of 4, 8, 12 and 16 MOA at 100 yards.

The larger sized dots are good for rapid up-close target acquisition, and the smaller dot sizes are good for slug-use when accuracy is needed at greater distances. I have one on another weapon, and it's the "Cat's Meow" for rapid target acquitition! And the very best part...they are meant to be used with BOTH eyes open, which is it's greatest "plus". (The latter topic needs the space of a totally different thread to describe all the benefits of TWO EYE target acquisition).

Anyhoo...I am currently looking at two different scope mounts for my 870P.

The first one is the AIMTECH MOUNT. (I've found them for as low as $25.95).

highresimage


And the other one is the B-SQUARE MOUNT. (A little more expensive, but I've found them for around $35.00).

highresimage


It seems to me - based on my personal observation - that the B-SQUARE is more commonly carried, and demands a constantly higher price.

I know that "price" is not always the determining factor into a products quality, but the fact that more distributors carry them DOES say something to me. (Or maybe it shouldn't).

Regardless...does anyone have either of these scope mounts on their 870?

And if you do, can you comment on their quality.

And lastly, let me hear your different opinions on each, as I will make my decision after sorting between all the "wheat and chaff". (The good, the bad, and the plain ole dumb comments).

Thanks guys/gals. I appreciate the time yall took to read my post, and then to respond to my post. (As long as the response are not not gibberish and wasted thought). ;)

In Christ: Raymond
 
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I have the AimTech on my 870 and use it to mount my OKO red dot. I am very happy with both and after about 50 rounds of slugs the other day, the AimTech mount didn't seem to budge and felt solid.







 
Thanks, Shappy. (What a cool, unique name). Ha ha.

Upon looking at the AIMTECH, I see two distinct differences:

1) It seems that the AIMTECH mount is higher. (To enable the user to use their iron sights).

2) And it seems that the AIMTECH is also shorter in length. (The other maker states that it is the "full receiver length").

Shappy, the firing-eye view was very helpful. It helped me to see the height, and shape, of the scope mount.

Thank you!

WouLd anyone be willing to post some side-view and firing-eye view pix of a B-SQUARE scope mount for me? (And other viewer's edu-macation).

Thanks again, Shappy.

Kudos, Doode!!

In Christ: Raymond
 
Well folks, just in case yall were curious...I got my new toy.

Below are a few pictures of it all set-up.

m73364993.jpg


m73364990.jpg


m73364985.jpg


m73364981.jpg


And for your information, I went with the B-SQUARE mounts and the ULTRADOT FOUR red dot scope.

Why the B-SQUARE mounts?

1) One...because I liked the large see-through SQUARE sight that enabled me to see the front bead.

2) Two...because I liked the sleek look of the mount covering the whole upper portion of the receiver.

3) Three- and most importantly - it had a lot more grooves for me to adjust the scope rings to my ULTRADOT FOUR.

Below are a few pictures that show the mounts from a "firing eye" point of view.

This first picture shows the view through the red dot scope. (If you look carefully, you can faintly see the red dot in the center).

m73367297.jpg


This second picture shows the THRU VIEW to the front bead of the barrel. (I liked the large SQUARE sight picture).

m73367293.jpg


And in closing, I gotta give it to you, Shappy. Those were some hard pictures to take of the THRU-VIEW to the front bead.

Anyhoo...thanks again for the help. I hope these pictures of the two mounts will help some other reader to choose the right mount for their needs.

Toodle-Loo, America!!

In Christ: Raymond
 
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OK,

one more thing needs to be said (pointed out) before I say "G'Bye" to this thread.

When you have the Knoxx SpecOps (recoil reducing) Stock installed - WITH THE HIGH CHEEK PIECE - you will not be able to use the "see-thru" sight at the bottom of the B-Square Mount.

What?

What I mean is this...when I pick-up the shotgun and rapidly place my cheek on the cheek piece to get into the proper firing positioning/eye alignment - my dominant eye is automatically set to the height of the red dot scope. And try as I may, I cannot get my dominant firing eye low enough (or down past the high cheekpiece) to see the front bead site thru the bottom of the scope mount.

I personally went up into the mountains this last weekend and tested my whole set-up. I shot around $200 worth of shotgun ammo. (3" and 2 3/4" inch, 00-Buck, slugs and sabot rounds). Almost 200 rounds worth of enjoyment. And it was a blast!!!

Ha ha ha.

Get it?

A "BLAST"?

Ooooo, hooo, hooo, hooo.

Me so funny! ;)

Just kiddin.

But truthfully, the red dot sight in conjunction with the Knoxx (recoil reducing) Stock worked great for what I intended it for. (Recoil reduction, which in turn gave me much faster follow-up shots, with super fast target acquisition). So the Knoxx Stock with the high cheekpiece was perfect for me.

But if you want, total, long distance accuracy, then DO NOT mount a scope above your receiver. Go for a solid front sight. A "Ghost Ring Sight" or a "Rifle Sight". (My personal preference is the "Ghost Ring Sight").

As a matter of fact, my buddy brought his Benelli M2 (with Ghost Ring Sights), and I was walking baseball-sized stones downrange (with 1oz slugs) from about the 60 to 70 yard range. Zero misses. But the trade-off was much more felt recoil, which in turn translated into slower follow-up shots.

To each his own.

To recap: If you have some type of scope or red dot sight on your shotgun, and you are planing to use it in conjunction with the HIGH CHEEK PIECE of your Knoxx SpecOps Stock (which you must do if you want to rapidly acquire a sight picture with your scope), then do not think that you will be able to use the front sight of your barrel. If you are going to install a scope or red-dot sight onto your shotgun - WITH THE KNOXX HIGH CHEEK PIECE - save your "shekels" and don't invest in rifle sights or ghost ring sights...as you WILL NOT be able to use them. (But if you are going to use a scope mount WITHOUT the high cheek piece...then it should be OK).

OK...I Just wanted to throw yall some stuff to chew on.

Thanks again for your ears, Folks.

In Christ: Raymond
 
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Saddle Scope Mount Question

I have a TacStar Side saddle (6-rd 12-ga) on my 870 HD and am trying to find a scope mount (for a red dot) that will not interfere with my current setup. Any ideas?
 
Mixstuff, welcome to THR.
You'll find us to be a mostly friendly group,
even if somewhat opinionated. :rolleyes:
(See below.)

As the founder of this thread,
as a kid who grew up with an 870 in 16 ga,
who now owns an 870P in 12,
I'm just going to offer up an opinion.

No "truth" implied,
just an opinion.
(The red pill.)

Why would anyone
want to put a scope
on a shotgun?

Red dot or otherwise,
it just doesn't make sense to me.

To each their own,
YMMV, and all that.

Mine still has the original bead sight.
It may have a set of ghost rings someday,
like the ones I just put on my 336.
But I'm thinking not.

My shotgun is for up close and personal,
defined as 30 m and less.
(And usually MUCH less.)
Inside the perimeter,
where point and shoot
is all that counts.

I just don't get it.

Having said that,
I'm sure that someone
will be along shortly
to offer an answer to your question.

Nem

BA/UU/R
 
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