That is a good point Roman. I would think that counting shots would be a bit cumbersome in some situations. Lets say you have nine shots and you are blasting away and forget to count your shots. What happens when you pull the trigger in the heat of the moment as it were and you hear nothing but a click? I like the idea of reloading after each shot that way you never have to count shots. You know your gun is always loaded because you always load it.
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- Thread starter grumpy1
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True. I mean honestly I am not trying to be argumentative here and I want to apologize in advance if I come across that way. Another thing too that I consider is what the shotgun can do. There are laws here in Michigan about how many shells a shotgun can carry while hunting and what not. I think for me weight would be a big factor. I dont like heavy guns. To cumbersome to carry.
The weight isn't a big problem, in my opinion. You are already carrying a gun, which is heavy by default. lol Plus, you feel less recoil.
The advantages of single shot is that is is easier to operate (operator educed malfunctions are less likely) and it is shorter, given the same barrel length. Each of these advantages is a BIG plus regardless how you use the shotgun but especially in HD situations. However, double barrel got the same advantages as single shot, pus the ability to have two rounds loaded and a choice of firing either simultaneously or one after another.
Now, double barrel vs. pump action is indeed a toss up.
The advantages of single shot is that is is easier to operate (operator educed malfunctions are less likely) and it is shorter, given the same barrel length. Each of these advantages is a BIG plus regardless how you use the shotgun but especially in HD situations. However, double barrel got the same advantages as single shot, pus the ability to have two rounds loaded and a choice of firing either simultaneously or one after another.
Now, double barrel vs. pump action is indeed a toss up.
357wheelgunner
Member
Practice and aiming can accomplish that. I wouldn't rely on electrical tape and padding as an aiming device mount.
Just do a shootoff against someone who is good running a pump. Go even farther, do it in low light. You get a single shot shotgun with one round in the chamber and 2 in your left hand. The pump gunner gets his fully loaded shotgun with a surefire weaponlight. Set up 2 targets, see who can tag them both first. Better yet, start with an empy chamber in each gun, simulating a first round miss.
Then you will see why people use pump shotguns.
All that said, I'm going to buy the first $70 single shot 12 gauge I find for a cheap car gun because I'd worry about something bad happening to a pump if leftin the car.
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Two more things to add:
Try shooting a laser-sighted shotgun vs. a guy with a pump, but no light and no laser, but who knows how to shoot a shotgun.
Given that people routinely hit fast-flying birds in low light, from a low carry position, in a split second, I think it's obvious that shotgun shooting doesn't require a laser or anything else but proper practice. Of course, I would never shoot doves a few minutes after legal shooting hours, but it's been done before.
Finally, WRT your strategy, grumpy1, IMO you've got it backwards. You've got dogs, noise makers on the doors, good locks. That means that a lone, casual or unarmed intruder won't be in your house.
If you ever actually have to defend yourself, you will most likely be facing multiple, armed, committed home invaders -- simply because a lone and/or unarmed burglar will be deterred by everything else you have in place.
That means two things:
1. Any shots you fire will be under extreme stress -- in armed combat. If you think you can reload quickly under stress (and it sounds like you don't even have an ejector on your gun), you should try it some time. Bet someone you dislike $100 that you can blast three watermelons in under 3 seconds with your gun. Make sure you have lots of spectators. When you fail, think about the fact that, if you're facing armed home invaders, your stress level will be 10 times what you feel when you lose your 100 bucks. Then consider that, with a pump gun, someone with rudimetary shotgunning skills could easily make those shots and be ready for the next one, even if they missed a watermelon and had to shoot it again.
2. You can count on someone shooting at you. And they won't have single shots. You may have to take a "hail mary" shot or two from cover. Wouldn't you prefer to have 5-7 more where that came from, when you hit drywall instead of home invader? Facing two armed criminals, armed with a single shot, you can expect to take a bullet if the shooting does start. The idea isn't to be "poetry in motion" with duct tape and a laser pointer, and to win some sort of perverse game; it's to stop the attack and come away uninjured if possible.
Seriously, have you ever shot flurries? Try that sometime. It's amazing how fast you CAN'T load a break-action, even with ejectors, when the pressure is on, and flurries are just fooling around, not life-and-death.
I love break-actions. I seldom shoot anything else. However, they have their limitations, especially the single-barrel variety. And the first cartridge shotguns in general use were doubles, not singles, soon to be joined by lever-actions, then pumps, all in the late 19th Century, and semiautos in the early 20th. Sure, there were single-barrel flintlock blunderbusses, but after they became obsolete, the single barrel shotgun was never the gun chosen for defensive applications.
That doesn't mean I'd want to be shot with a single. It does, however, mean that I'd much prefer facing a would-be attacker who has a single than someone with a magazine full of shells.
Use whatever you have, and whatever you want. But don't talk yourself into something that doesn't serve your well-being, just for the hell of it.
Try shooting a laser-sighted shotgun vs. a guy with a pump, but no light and no laser, but who knows how to shoot a shotgun.
Given that people routinely hit fast-flying birds in low light, from a low carry position, in a split second, I think it's obvious that shotgun shooting doesn't require a laser or anything else but proper practice. Of course, I would never shoot doves a few minutes after legal shooting hours
, but it's been done before.Finally, WRT your strategy, grumpy1, IMO you've got it backwards. You've got dogs, noise makers on the doors, good locks. That means that a lone, casual or unarmed intruder won't be in your house.
If you ever actually have to defend yourself, you will most likely be facing multiple, armed, committed home invaders -- simply because a lone and/or unarmed burglar will be deterred by everything else you have in place.
That means two things:
1. Any shots you fire will be under extreme stress -- in armed combat. If you think you can reload quickly under stress (and it sounds like you don't even have an ejector on your gun), you should try it some time. Bet someone you dislike $100 that you can blast three watermelons in under 3 seconds with your gun. Make sure you have lots of spectators. When you fail, think about the fact that, if you're facing armed home invaders, your stress level will be 10 times what you feel when you lose your 100 bucks. Then consider that, with a pump gun, someone with rudimetary shotgunning skills could easily make those shots and be ready for the next one, even if they missed a watermelon and had to shoot it again.
2. You can count on someone shooting at you. And they won't have single shots. You may have to take a "hail mary" shot or two from cover. Wouldn't you prefer to have 5-7 more where that came from, when you hit drywall instead of home invader? Facing two armed criminals, armed with a single shot, you can expect to take a bullet if the shooting does start. The idea isn't to be "poetry in motion" with duct tape and a laser pointer, and to win some sort of perverse game; it's to stop the attack and come away uninjured if possible.
Seriously, have you ever shot flurries? Try that sometime. It's amazing how fast you CAN'T load a break-action, even with ejectors, when the pressure is on, and flurries are just fooling around, not life-and-death.
I love break-actions. I seldom shoot anything else. However, they have their limitations, especially the single-barrel variety. And the first cartridge shotguns in general use were doubles, not singles, soon to be joined by lever-actions, then pumps, all in the late 19th Century, and semiautos in the early 20th. Sure, there were single-barrel flintlock blunderbusses, but after they became obsolete, the single barrel shotgun was never the gun chosen for defensive applications.
That doesn't mean I'd want to be shot with a single. It does, however, mean that I'd much prefer facing a would-be attacker who has a single than someone with a magazine full of shells.
Use whatever you have, and whatever you want. But don't talk yourself into something that doesn't serve your well-being, just for the hell of it.
peacemaker45
Member
I'm gonna guess that someone may not be especially familiar with pumps. If you're used to one, then it can be used like an extension of the body. You don't need a laser taped to the barrel or anything like that to get a rough idea of where it's pointed, because it's pointed in the exact opposite direction of the stock. If the stock's pointed at your shoulder, then it would stand to reason that the muzzle is pointing in front of you.
Besides, consider this scenario. I'll take my '97, and you take your single shot. We can both start with guns fully loaded, and a belt of shells strapped round the waist. Each one has an array of, say 20 steel plates to knock over in front of us. See who gets them all down first. Then consider that the steel plates ain't shooting back.
~~~Mat
Besides, consider this scenario. I'll take my '97, and you take your single shot. We can both start with guns fully loaded, and a belt of shells strapped round the waist. Each one has an array of, say 20 steel plates to knock over in front of us. See who gets them all down first. Then consider that the steel plates ain't shooting back.
~~~Mat
All good points guys and all good things to think about. I was reading a site called the box o truth. The guy was writing about a shotgun course that he took from clint smith. What I found interesting is that part of the course included lessons on how to unjam a pump shotgun and a semi automatic. Funny thing though was that the course didnt seem to include any lessons on how to unjam a single shot or a side by side.
Gord
Member
False inferments are fun, eh?
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