Questioning my 270win for deer

[jbech123]

My brother in law has a farm in New York and doesn't have much time/inclination to hunt, but gets severe crop damage from whitetails. I few years back he got 50 doe tags that could be filled by anyone hunting on his property(about 2500 acres). He gave them all to me and said have fun. After bringing up some friends etc to shoot some for meat I still had 30+ tags left. Talked to the local hunters for hungry program and they said they could take as much as I could bring them. I just can't shoot stuff and let it go to waste. Anyway, since the conditions were right(fresh snow, easy tracking, I know the property well), I decided to put the 223 to the test. Not the optimum deer caliber by any means, but I shoot alot so I was confident, and like I said easy tracking conditions. I used a sierra gameking bullets. I shot 19 deer over 2 days, at ranges from 75-200 yards. All shot in the lungs behind the shoulder. The one that went the furthest went less than 100 yards after being shot. About half of them took only a step or 2.
I'm not saying use a 223, but a 270 is more than enough for whitetails.

 

[jbech123]

I think its funny how ammo brands will use words like "Supreme Elite" ammunition, I guess to draw young urban dudes to buy it. I've got your supreme elite: Here's what I do, take a bag of 100 brass and sort by weight, then length to cull out the brass and adhere to .5 grain (1/14,000 of a pound) on the weight and .0001 on brass length. Then chamfer and debur each case. Next weigh each charge to one tenth of a grain of powder, not plus or minus but to the actual tenth. Next use only quality spire points and either Federal or CCI BR primers. Now take this load out and shoot to fire form the brass to your chamber. Bring the cases home, clean primer pockets and "neck size" only and repeat the process. All of this of course after you have checked your rifle's throat and have set your bullet seating die to specifically locate the bullets (depending on your preference) down to 1/1000 of an inch. Now do you think that box of ammo is "Supreme Elite"?

Impressive. Sounds like a lot of work for something that under hunting conditions wouldn't do any better than federal supreme.

 

[oneounceload]

It ain't the arrow, it's the Indian.

The 270 is practically overkill for whitetails, especially at 75 yards. Shot placement, as previously mentioned, seems to need some work

 

[FRJ]

I have over 45 years of hunting with the .270 and can't say anything but good about it. With it I have taken whitetail, mule deer , blacktail deer, in numbers well over 50. I have taken 6 elk 2 carabou 20 or so blackbear etc. NEVER did an animal hit properly go farther than 40 yards. If your hitting deer a thin skinned light animal and not recovering them it isn't the fault of the caliber or the bullet.I would suggest you check your zero and then check your scope to make sure it isn't changing point of impact on you. In the last annalisys your shooting is highly suspect. FRJ

 

[fireside44]

I had the same problem as the OP with a .243

Lung shots and the deer gets up from where he was LAYING DOWN and makes a run for it.

Never lost any but was more than unimpressed with the put down power of the cartridge when the animals stands up from where it was laying when I shot it and starts to bound off into the woods.

I guess I just got sick of making clean shots and then needing to make follow up shots in order to avoid a day tracking a wounded animal in the woods.

Needless to say, a .444 marlin is my deer gun now. Give me an 06, a 7mm mag, an 8mm mauser, or even a .308, but I'm done with the varmint cartridges and deer hunting. To me, it's not fair to the animal.

 

[Fremmer]

JM, don't take things too hard, we've all missed or made a bad hit. You'll do better next time. Get some practice in, and get ready for next year!

 

[Horsemany]

I have the exact same rifle and it shoots 130 Federal Fusions in .5's and .6's at 100yds. Very accurate. I shot a 154lb 12pointer this year at 20paces. He was trotting right at me and I shot him just obove the brisket. The bullet exited between his shoulder blades and he dropped like hit by lightning. That's probably the 10th deer I've killed with a 270. The only one I ever lost was a 20yd shot that hit the shoulder bone and exploded.

IMO you probably need to practice more off hand shooting and learn to relax and take careful aim in the heat of the moment. It's easy to rush the shot when the adrenaline starts pumping. You could also be having a bit of bad luck. Sometimes the difference between dropping like struck by lightning and tracking for a mile is just a few inches. Put out some reactive targets like clay pigeons and practice shooting them offhand at 100yds. If you get good at that and know the vitals of a deer you'll do better IMO.

 

[Uncle Mike]

My safe is full of big ol' magnums because someone missed, or got a bad hit on an animal with their master blaster rifle.
Likewise I have amassed a rather large collection of normal calibers because of the same!

Guy shooting a 270 misses, he needs practice...so next thing you know, he's buying a 300 WIN.MAG., because that little ol' 270 ain't big enough and the 300 magnum will be!
So I buy the 270.....

BOOM! goes the 300MAG, off runs the deer...another missed shot! Now the guy is looking hard at a 338 or better yet, one of those fancy Weatherby magnums...
We got em'....we will buy that 300WIN.MAG from you and sell you the Weatherby....and on it goes......

If you need practice, there is not ANY caliber that is going to compensate for that!

A 270, as was said, is nearly too much for whitetail! You just more than likely was looking AT the deer in the scope, and not looking at WHERE the bullet needed to be!

No biggie, we all have done that! But you have plenty of power, and then some, for deer, with the 270!

 

[CoRoMo]

What Art said.

My family and I hunt elk every year. The largest caliber used is my .270.

 

[Mr. T]

Depending upon the ammo, the .270 actually will pack more punch than a 30.06 at long distance, but is very comparable to the 30.06 at all ranges in between 100 to 500 yards. I would recommend 130 grain to 150 grain soft points or boat tail hollow points designed for hunting. The .270 is not your problem -- shot placement might be, but I would wager on the type of bullet your using. Also just a note to rizbunk77, a neck shot on a Whitetail is not a guaranteed shot either-- you're better off going center mass everytime. I have had two deer get away from me on accurately placed neck shots, one was a trophy that ended up being very close to a World Record Whitetail. I shot him in the neck as a ten pointer, but he added another 4 points over the years. I know that no one ever got him, because if they had the hunting world would have been on fire with one of the largest whitetails of all time; I shot him with a 30.06 in the neck and we chased him 2 miles and then lost the blood trail. I also shot a doe in the neck with a 12 guage shotgun, right under the jaw in the neck...it nocked her down, but she got back up and ran off...I chased her for 700 to 800 yards before having to stop at a property line....long story short the neighbor got her. Morale of the story...I've never had a deer walk away from a torso shot when it was hit in the heart or lungs. I've killed hundreds of whitetails, few have gotten away, but none have when shot properly in the torso.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Classic example of magnumitis fallacy

What you absolutely positively 1,000% DON'T need is a different caliber. There's nothing better on earth for deer than the .270 Win. A little overkill, but "more than perfect", let's say.

I guarantee you the same animals shot with a same-constructed .30-06 or .300 win mag bullet would have reacted exactly the same way, and you would have lost them anyway. It's NOT caliber choice.



It's about 3 things here:

1. Bullet selection

2. Shot placement

3. Luck / Deer's state of mind / state of adrenaline or alertness


And of those 3, it sounds like bullet selection is most likely the culprit from what you are describing, or a combination of things.


Shot placement. If you want them to go down immediately, shoot the in the brain, neck, or high shoulder, and then shoot a follow-up shot. If you understandably don't want to rely upon that small of a target at longer distances, then shoot for the heart / lungs. The key is to hit either (a) both lungs, or (b) the heart. What you did sounds like the classic one-lung shot. They can run a loooooong ways with one lung. Two lungs, they cannot, and will go down within 100 yards tops, typically. So the key to getting two lungs (if you don't know exactly how to hit the heart) is to get a *broadside* shot, not a quartering shot. And one without too much up or down angle either.

Alertness / luck: Some things are just luck of the draw on the toughness of the critter, and the more alert they are when shot, the farther they will run.

Bullet selection: This is more key. You want a light fast, *somewhat* lightly constructed bullet for deer - this means probably a 130 grain bullet, and frankly, for heart/lung shots on deer, you do NOT want a premium bonded bullet - you want violent and rapid expansion, with adequate penetration. The faster-moving 130s, particularly ballistic-tip bullets, will expand very violently and typically put them down quickly, within 30 or 40 yards. Look at your ballistic tips or just your standard cheap soft-nosed bullets.

 

[JMPhoto]

OK...now I feel kind of silly asking the original question. Thanks for all the great suggestions and information. I don’t plan on selling the gun, I will be keeping it, but I will be doing much experimenting and practice with it. Just to follow up on ones comment, the shot I took I was confident with at the moment I took it. There were two doe walking through a wooded area and I had her in my sights for a while waiting for the right moment, she paused, I sighted her in and squeezed and she just began to walk again just as I squeezed. So, I could have flinched, she could have stepped forward causing my shot to land back more, I guess I will never know. I know the gun is spot on and it shoots very tight groupings, but as many of you mentioned, that was off of a bench. I do shoot in different positions at the range, like standing, kneeling etc, but I guess I need to do that more.
Thanks again.

 

[MJR007]

A bullet going 75 yards through the woods stands a very good chance of hitting branches you can not see in your glass. Anyone who has woods hunted for any length of time has done it (some more than others). Thank you for your post, we have all lost deer and feel like crap when it happens.

 

[jbech123]

I had the same problem as the OP with a .243

Lung shots and the deer gets up from where he was LAYING DOWN and makes a run for it.

Never lost any but was more than unimpressed with the put down power of the cartridge when the animals stands up from where it was laying when I shot it and starts to bound off into the woods.

Again shot placement. If you keep your ranges at less than 300 yards, 243 is plenty for whitetail. Not saying optimum, especially if you're an average or less marksman, but more than enough power for a whitetail. Deer simply are not that tough. I mean an average deer on the hoof is maybe 200 lbs, about the same size as an average guy. How far would you go if you were double lunged by a 243?

 

[atblis]

I mean an average deer on the hoof is maybe 200 lbs, about the same size as an average guy. How far would you go if you were double lunged by a 243?

Probably more like 100 lbs (especially in southern states).

 

[natman]

Sorry to join the chorus, but the 270 Win is plenty for deer. If anything the XP3 is on the tough side for deer, but I'm afraid that the problem is probably that the bullet didn't go where it should have.

Shot placement should be where the red X is:



It's possible that the bullet was deflected, or that you just missed or that you weren't aiming where you should. It's awfully easy in the heat of the moment to just center the crosshairs on the animal. You have to concentrate on putting them on the exact right location.

Thanks for your candor and better luck next time.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I am a huge fan of the .30-06. I think it is one of the best all around cartridges for North American game. But I try not to get crazy about it. I am under no illusions that it can do anything a .270 can't. My opinion, and the opinion of hundreds of thousands of others is that it doesn't get much better than a .270 for whitetail. A deer isn't going to run a mile with a hole in it's lungs. You just missed. And that's not any slight towards you. I shot at a deer at about 100 yds with my muzzleloader this year. It was standing broad side and I didn't cut a hair. I checked the zero and the gun was fine. I just rushed the shot. Everyone misses. If someone tells you they haven't missed, hand them a salt tablet.

 

[fireside44]

Again shot placement. If you keep your ranges at less than 300 yards, 243 is plenty for whitetail.

Not in my experience. I took two spike bucks with that gun, a Rem 700. One was a 25 yard shot on a buck laying down. Took my time and got a clean lung shot, yes, but he got up and ran 30 yards before collapsing. The other buck was a 65 yard shot, again, had plenty of time to pick my spot. Spike buck was laying down. Clean shot placement through both lungs. Got up and ran 30 yards only collapsing after I put two more shots into his lungs.

I am not a great shot by any means, but both of those first shots were clean. More than anything I didn't want to have to feel like I had to "move in" on the deer immediately after I made the kill. One shot in the lungs didn't seem to guarantee that the deer wouldn't be able to run off and die hiding in thick underbrush.

For me, it wasn't an effective nor ethical enough as a deer cartridge. After seeing it's performance twice, that was enough for me. I have no confidence in the .243 as a serious deer cartridge and so I don't feel comfortable hunting with it any longer.

I know most won't agree, but I sympathize with the OP.

 

[homers]

Probably was a solid hit, but obviously not in the vitals (otherwise it wouldn't have gone over a mile). As everybody already said, the 270 is way more than enough on any deer. I'd try a different bullet - if you don't reload try the regular old Remington Core-Lokt. You need a bullet that will expand on the thin skinned deer.

 

[Sav .250]

I`d look else where for your problem cause there is nothing wrong with the
round in question. Course if you don`t have any faith in it (for what ever reason) buy yourself some thing else.

 

[brianr23]

Im frustrated this season too. My frustration is that I can't even get a shot with my .270 I think its cursed....Everything I have seen this year was either in bow season and I couldn't get a shot or running and not able to get a shot. In the past my .270 has always done the job when I get a shot....Like a thunderbolt...in their tracks....piggys too. Sometimes it all boils down to a little luck...my problem is not getting a shot this year

 

[AKElroy]

Sounds more like a shot placement problem than anything else. It's possible it might be a bullet problem, with maybe a lack of expansion, but that's sorta unlikely with the .270.

+1111. I have never had trouble with a well hit animal failing to go down in a reasonable distance, and I have no count of how many have fallen to my .270. I think Art is on target; sounds like a poor hit. It happens to the best of us. It could also be your scope / mount / rings are starting to walk around a bit. Also, if you have never run a good course of copper solvent through it, you may be losing some accuracy to fouling, but I doubt that is the cause @ 75 yds.

You may have just flubbed it---Sorry for the loss of the animal. That sucks---

 

[jocamp64]

That bullet is too hard so it whizzed thru the deer with little damage to it's innards. If you shot through a tree first it would have dropped it. A shoulder shot would have also anchored it.
I would suggest a normal/regular/non-premium/expanding/cheap bullet that will dump it's energy inside the deer. This will damage the heart even if it is not hit. Just don't expect it to shoot through a tree first.

 

[Maj Dad]

Bullet Weight/Sectional Density

Don't forget: a heavy bullet for caliber (>130gr in the 270), especially one designed for penetration, will tend to go farther in the animal with less expansion (sectional density: if you're not familiar with the term, it relates to mass per frontal sectional area - the greater the mass, the more oompah. Think of a freight train at 60 mph versus a Toyota Prius at 60...). That's what you want for larger game but a white tail can be punctured clean through like a FMJ with a heavy 270 that doesn't expand. If you're using 130s, you're back to placement and animals with stamina.

 

[scchokedaddy]

misses

If they aint missed, they aint been hunting!!!!!!!!!