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Questions about getting back into BP

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by AZAndy, Apr 16, 2018.

  1. AZAndy
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    AZAndy Member

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    When I was eighteen or so, I had a .36 Navy that I had a lot of fun with. I gave it to a friend when I turned 21 and could buy modern handguns, and haven't done any black powder stuff since. Now that I have a satisfactory assortment of pistols and revolvers, I'm planning to order a BP revolver for funsies today. It'll be an Uberti '58 Remington .36. Here's what I need your help with:

    #1 Black powder is illegal in my state, so I'm not sure what I should be looking at as a decent powder. Pyrodex P maybe?

    #2 I looked at the Uberti manual online, and it doesn't mention what size caps to use. 10? 11?

    #3 Any recommendations for a flask that dispenses a measured amount? It'd be nice if it could be adjustable.

    #4 What's a good source for .36 ball? I may get into casting at some point, but not right away. And, while I'm on the topic, which is preferable-- .375 or .380?

    Thanks muchly for your assistance!
     
  2. Fine Figure of a Man

    Fine Figure of a Man Member

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  3. ClemBert

    ClemBert Member

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    Uberti 36 caliber. Then use .380 round ball since cylinders will be .372"
     
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  4. D. Buck Stopshere

    D. Buck Stopshere Member

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    Another great source for black powder supplies is Track Of The Wolf in Elk River, MN. Family-owned and operated for about fifty years. They have an excellent online catalog. Highly recommend ordering their print catalog. They cater primarily to the muzzleloading crowd. I have been doing business with them since the '70's.

    Can't believe black powder is illegal to own in AZ? Hodgdon's Triple 7 in 3FG is also a good choice; less corrosive than Pyrodex.
     
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  5. AZAndy
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    AZAndy Member

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    I think it's a fire hazard thing. There's also a few weeks every year when outdoor shooting is outlawed, in my county at least, unless it's a private range. We get some pretty scary fires out here sometimes.
     
  6. ClemBert

    ClemBert Member

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  7. Oohrah!

    Oohrah! Member

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    Ditto on TOTW, and if you ever get down to Glendale, Cabela's usually has BP supplies in stock.
     
  8. rodwha

    rodwha Member

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    I was given an adjustable rifle powder measure with a funnel at the top. I highly recommend something like that as it makes pouring into a small chamber much easier. It’s still not perfect, especially if it’s breezy so I also cut the base off of a .270 Win cartridge to help.

    I’d start with Remington #10 caps. I’m not familiar with Uberti nipple fit but they work excellently on my Pietta and ToTW nipples. The CCI caps are cheaper though. If you can find their non magnum #11 I’d get both.

    I was given a few pounds of Pyrodex (P/RS) as well and didn’t like the fouling. It had a weird sticky quality to it. It is also highly corrosive, though cleaning it soon after use negates that issue. I like Triple 7 much better.

    If you find you do not have time to clean your gun after use I found that you can wipe it down and swab it with a BP oil. The fouling will absord the oil keeping it from absorbing moisture. I’ve gone two days leaving a pistol in my hot and humid garage and it was fine. I prefer Ballistol.

    Oh, and another who recommends .380” balls.

    You’ll also want to put anti seize on the nipple threads.
     
  9. Mizar

    Mizar Member

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    I'm going to address only the questions that I know the answers for:

    Most of the guys shooting with stock nipples are recommending Remington #10 caps. RWS 1075 are a good, solid alternative. People usually steer away from CCI - #10 are too small, while #11 are too large, but there is always the possibility that they will work OK for you as stock nipples are known for dimensional deviations from one batch to another. While we are on nipples - caps should fit snugly, but without excessive force. They should be easy to slide in and very difficult to remove once seated. If the nipples are smaller you can always shorten them a little bit, but first you must check hammer's face contact with the nipples as it is sometimes at the wrong angle - ideally the contact should be 100%. Only after that you may proceed to shorten the nipples - you can do it easily by hand with a medium grit diamond sharpening stone. And do use a quality caliper with 0.001" graduation frequently! Ideally there should be about 0.004" clearance between the nipples and the hammer face with cylinder pushed forward. That will insure reliable ignition and will protect the hammer face from gouging at the same time. But if you don't want to bother with all of that there is always the option of aftermarket nipples - Slix-Shot might be a better option for black powder substitutes as they have a larger flash hole compared to Treso and Track of the Wolf ones. Roughly the flash hole is the same diameter as the stock nipples. Black powder substitutes are known to be tougher to ignite than real gunpowder.

    I don't think you can find an adjustable one. Almost all of the flasks that you can readily find are made by Pedersoli in Italy and, except for the gun specific models (Paterson and Walker), they share the same spouts and mechanism - originally they come with a 24 grain spout, but bigger, or smaller ones are readily available at symbolic prices. You can always shorten the spout to your preferred charge by the way. If you are OK with the plain look the brass tubular one from Traditions is as good as the other more fancier models.
     
  10. Dave T

    Dave T Member

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    Andy, I think you may be confusing a ban on shooting black powder in the National Forrest or on BLM land during high fire season with BP actually being illegal in Arizona. For 10 years straight I shot nothing by BP cartridges when I lived in Tucson. There are countless muzzle loaders in the Phoenix metro area and most of them (at least the more traditional ones) are shooting BP.

    Most of the gun shops around me (Mesa) don't carry it, only substitutes, but I looked into making bulk purchases of black powder from some of the larger suppliers and none of them had a problem shipping to Arizona.

    Dave
     
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  11. AZAndy
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    AZAndy Member

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    It wouldn't be the first time I was wrong about something, that's for sure. I've been told it's illegal by a couple of different gun counter guys, though we know how they can be. Coincidentally, the first time I heard it was in Mesa when I lived there. I've tried searching for the relevant legal code and can't find anything, and black powder is specifically mentioned in the state definition of a muzzle loader, so I reckon I'm wrong. Thanks for straightening me out.
     
  12. expat_alaska

    expat_alaska Member

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    You are in AZ. BP is illegal there? I find that hard to believe.
     
  13. Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave Member

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    Yes indeed, BUT sometimes they merely mess-up information they are trying to convey. While black powder may not be illegal in AZ to use, or for joe-six-pack to have in his home....., it may be illegal for Store X to sell it because they have not the storage location that meets code for storing a decent amount of BP to make the shipping worth their time. So instead of telling you the full reason, they say they don't carry it, "Because it's Illegal [for them]". IF they offer pyrodex, it suggests to the customer to buy that instead. Sucks if you shoot flintlocks though.....

    Pyrodex was invented (btw) for that very reason. Restrictions on storage at retail outlets caused small gunshops to stop stocking BP. Pyrodex, because it behaves differently when not compressed and when ignited, fell (falls) into a lesser regulated category. ;)

    LD
     
  14. ClemBert

    ClemBert Member

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    Typically, what I've experienced is that store owners don't carry it because of storage requirements. It has to be stored in a BP approved storage box/chest which means if they have it then it'll be in some room in the back and not sitting on a shelf or even visible anywhere in the store. If you don't ask you will not know for sure if they have it. And, it is typical for most of us to have the responsibility to properly store it according to some state or federal statute which may or may not factor in depending on how many pounds you have on hand.

    So, how many of you have a BP storage box/chest that would be approved by most gubermints? I've got one of those red metal ones that has wheels and two locks on top. It's lined with plywood. It's probably THIS ONE although I didn't purchase it there and I'm certain it was well under $200.
     
  15. paul harm

    paul harm Member

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    LD is correct. Here in Michigan only two dealers sell BP because of the storage regulations. I'm lucky in that one of those dealers lives only about a half hour away and has been a friend for over 35 years. They also sell Pietta revolvers and are members at my local gun club. They will bring BP to our monthly membership meetings if someone wants it and only ask 18$ for GOEX or 14$ for Grafs. I just punched in " black powder laws in AZ " and didn't look a whole lot but found out you can used BP firearms that shoot BP soooo I have to assume you CAN own BP in your state. You'll just have to find out who sells it. Try punching in " who sells BP in AZ".
     
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  16. Jackrabbit1957

    Jackrabbit1957 Member

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    I have shot BP in southern Az for many years. Never ran into any legal issues. I think it is a safe storage thing with the stores. If you get to Tucson try Thunderstick, they cater to black powder crowd. Also try looking up any muzzleloader clubs. Another good source is the NMLRA shoot at Ben Avery range outside of Phoenix. They have a traders row that sells all kinds of stuff. That's winter time thing, just once a year.
     
  17. DD4lifeusmc

    DD4lifeusmc Member

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    BATF requires a specific storage vault to store even 1# of BP. Then there are insurance regulations also.
    So it's just more cost efficient and less hassle for them to not carry it.
    Also they must be licensed by the BATF to store it and subject to investigation at any time.
     
  18. Patocazador

    Patocazador Member

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    Wow! I'll say you're lucky. Those prices are about $7 less per pound than I wind up paying when ordering black powder in 5 lb. increments.
     
  19. paul harm

    paul harm Member

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    I don't think the BATF regs apply to me or you, only if you're selling it. I probably have 15#'s of it in my basement and another pound or two of Clean Shot and Pyrodex. Last time I ordered it was for 20 #'s so the hazmat fee didn't matter so much. That was around 10 years ago before I found out what my friend gets for it.
     
  20. 44 Dave

    44 Dave Member

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    Have a friend who has his FFL and local gun shop. When I order powder we get to gather but sent to my address. In the past when he ordered black powder and sent to his home address (he does not sell it) The BATF showed up and wanted to if he was selling it with out their requirements.
     
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