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Questions about some small AR manufacturers?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by SpeedAKL, May 12, 2007.

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  1. SpeedAKL

    SpeedAKL Member

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    Right now I'm leaning towards either a Bushmaster, Stag, or DPMS (Armalite and Colt seem to carry a nice premium)....however I have seen some good deals on other manufacturers that don't get discussed as much and am wondering how they hold up versus the competition:

    Olympic Arms - cheap but seems to have gotten mixed reviews in another thread I've seen here

    Smith & Wesson - a bit more than I want to spend but I've found some decent deals

    Eagle Arms - ??? not familiar with them

    CMMG - seems a little pricey but I've heard them mentioned favorable

    Black-Rifle.com - anyone worked with them?

    High Standard - seen good prices on their flat-top carbines (which is what I'm looking for) and they seem assembled well, any thoughts?

    Wilson Combat, Les Baer, etc look sweet but would blow my budget.

    Any others out there?
     
  2. taliv

    taliv Moderator Staff Member

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    do NOT get a les baer AR15.
    i was unimpressed by the wilson combat ar15, even though i'm a big fan of their pistols.

    one not on your list is Essential Arms. excellent value. certainly not the best out there, but for the money, it's outstanding.
     
  3. MMcfpd

    MMcfpd Member

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    AR15.com is a good source for what you're seeking. I have no personal experience with them, but I have seen quite a few complaints about DPMS.
     
  4. Rugerdog

    Rugerdog Member

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    Ceck out SHARK mfg. I have several of his lowers and they are cool. They are milspec and mags fit in them better than my Colt 6920.-Art
     
  5. Glockfan.45

    Glockfan.45 member

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    The only thing they make are stripped lowers and stocks. I think the OP is looking for a complete rifle. Stay far far away from Olympic, and Vulcan/Hesse. Some will give them a good review, and some a bad review. What you get from those two is a 50/50 shot of getting a ok rifle, or junk. I had an Olympic AR once, I traded for a mini 14 if that gives you any idea. Hesse is the biggest supplier of garbage on the AR market. Stag really is the best value out there right now. Lewis Machine Tool is another top notch manufacture, but they are also big $$$ and will not sell a complete rifle to a civilian. You have to buy a upper/lower seperately and snap them together yourself. OBTW Wilson, and Les Baer are made by CMT (Stag).
     
  6. RockyMtnTactical

    RockyMtnTactical Member

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    You're not gonna do better than Stag. ;)
     
  7. Glockfan.45

    Glockfan.45 member

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    RMT are you a Stag rep? I don't think I have seen a thread related to ARs come up here withoout you pitching for them :scrutiny: .
     
  8. AK103K

    AK103K Member

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    What kind of premium are the Armalites bringing these days? I actually paid less for mine than the comparable Bushmaster at the time (right after the last ban came off).

    I have and have had other Bushmasters, and as far as I'm concerned, the Armalites are the better rifle, and even if there were a premium, I'd pay it.
     
  9. ozarkhillbilly

    ozarkhillbilly Member

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    I have had good luck with my Rock River AR. I believe that Stag makes S&Ws AR-15s for them, my next one will be either a Stag or a S&W.
     
  10. foob

    foob Member

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    How do you advice against a Les Baer, and then mention you used a Wilson Combat?

    Did you try a Les Baer? Or are they bad because Wilson's is bad?

    Just confused.
     
  11. Zeke Menuar

    Zeke Menuar Member

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    I can personally vouch for CMMG. Excellent product and customer service.

    They have a huge choice of various AR's and configuration. They cost a little more because they use 4150 barrel steel and feature 1/7 twist barrels. The stainless barrels are 1/8 twist.

    I have a 20" govt profile upper. I like it a lot and plan to CMMG them for my next AR.

    ZM
     
  12. RockyMtnTactical

    RockyMtnTactical Member

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    Nope, not a Stag rep. I am a dealer with them (among others, including RRA), and I sell a few of their stuff on the side. It's not a huge money maker for me though, slings are my real business. I could be a dealer with anyone I want practically... but I choose to sell Stag mostly because I believe they make the best bang for the buck.

    I've been shooting, building, fixing AR's for some time now. I have seen/shot/worked on/built using parts with multiple samples from most out there. Some can match the quality of Stag. Most don't exceed the quality though, and the ones that do don't do it by much. Very few are priced as well.

    Simply put, Stag is the most underrated manufacturer on the market, IMO. They don't have the name recognition of many of the others, and it's mostly because they are a "newer" name, but they aren't a newcomer by any stretch, since their parent company (CMT) has been in the game for a long time, and makes many of he parts for many of the big name players out there...

    I'm not knocking any of the manufacturers listed in particular. CMMG is decent and has a lot of variety to choose from in terms of barrels, configurations, etc... S&W's are made from mostly parts supplied by CMT... Don't see the point in going with them over a Stag...

    As for Les Baer and Wilson Combat, I am pretty sure they subcontract most of their AR's parts too...
     
  13. taliv

    taliv Moderator Staff Member

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    nope, not at all. i didn't say I used a wilson AR. I don't. I said i was a big fan of their pistols.

    here's a quote from les baer's webpage describing their AR15s:

    My beef with the baer rifle is two-fold. First, they claim to have superior reliability, and yet all the non-standard parts they've added to the guns are to increase accuracy at the expense of reliability. And second, they continue to use Bear Coat (tm).

    As for their choice of parts:
    1. they use a very tight 223 chamber instead of a 5.56 chamber. two years ago, I happened to have some slightly out of spec ammo. it ran though several 5.56 guns without a hitch. when we tried two brand new baer AR15s, BOTH of them wouldn't go into battery and took more than an hour to extract the round. i'm sure those tight 223 chambers shoot quality ammo in 1/2MOA groups as advertised, but you'd have to be on crack to recommend that chamber to a LEO. (cause you know no factory has ever had a machine wander .001" out of spec :rolleyes: and the most important thing to LEOs is that extra 1/2MOA of accuracy, cause you know if they shoot a bad guy in the iris instead of in the pupil, there's gonna be hell to pay)

    2. they've chromed the bolt and carrier and extractor. i don't always see eye-to-eye with rockymtntactical :neener: , but see his thoughts on chrome in this thread: http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=255089

    3. they're using a "national match" carrier (whatever that is) in a LE gun. why?

    4. they're using a jewel trigger in their LE gun. jewel triggers aren't exactly renown for their reliability.

    etc. etc. etc.

    and they don't do the sorts of things you'd expect, like mid-length gas systems, and nice stocks. seriously, if I'm paying $2000+ for an AR, it friggin better have a magpul or vltor stock on it.

    as for bear coat, please read this thread http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=86336 and decide for yourself if you want it on one of your guns. don't click on it til you have a couple spare hours though. it's like watching a trainwreck.
     
  14. foob

    foob Member

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    Thanks for the info. Clears up the misunderstanding.
     
  15. glockman19

    glockman19 Member

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    I have done some research on this and just bought a STAG M4. I think it was the best made for the money also they through a sister company make many of the parts for name brand AR's. I pick mine up Friday and will let you know what I think next Saturday after I've had a chance to shoot a couple hundred rounds.

    I got a great deal from Chris @ www.lanworldinc.com
     
  16. johnrobe

    johnrobe Member

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    I wish Stag would make a midlength upper. I probably would've bought a Stag but I wanted a midlength when I bought my first AR.
     
  17. patentmike

    patentmike Member

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    I think they are like a lot of appliances, a lot of different brands come from the same factory. If all the parts fit, it's just a matter of how much more you are willing to spend to get a picture of a snake, or big cat, or whatever.
     
  18. SpeedAKL

    SpeedAKL Member

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    I want 5.56 chambering ability in case I want to shoot milsurp, so anyone who chambers in SAAMI .223 is out. Also, I would prefer a mil-spec chrome-lined barrel as well. I'm not really looking for match-grade accuracy; more durability and versatility.

    Stag does seem like a good deal, and various dealers on GunsAmerica have attractive prices.
     
  19. Gary G23

    Gary G23 Member

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    "I would prefer a mil-spec chrome-lined barrel as well"

    In order to be mil-spec, it would have to have the following features:
    4150 barrel steel
    1/7 twist
    M4 feed ramps
    Nato chamber
    chrome lining

    Of the brands you mentioned that would leave out everybody except for Colt and CMMG.
     
  20. trueblue1776

    trueblue1776 Member

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    Stag or if you can find one, Mega's Gator lower is sweet, build from there. If you played with Legos when you were little you have the skills to build an AR-15, but sometimes it's cheaper to buy a complete gun.

    Stag is a sure bet though, nothing but good things to say about mine. If any of you shot Stag you'd pitch for them too, put one next to a top shelf lower (early Colt, DSArms, etc.), the Stag will be the same, and it cost A LOT less!

    I wouldn't get a 1 in 7 twist if I was you, it will shred a lot of the lighter rounds out there, 1 in 7 is meant for 65 gr+. 1 in 9 is nice for most of the weights you get in surplus or hunting bullets.
     
  21. JonB

    JonB Member

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    Same here. I wanted mid-length and Stag doesn't have one. So I went with Rock River. Haven't regretted it. Rock River makes a fine rifle that shoots better than I do. Depending on the options you want, their pricing is right in line with others as well.
     
  22. kentucky_smith

    kentucky_smith Member

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  23. techmike

    techmike Member

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  24. Impala

    Impala Member

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  25. john paul

    john paul Member

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    just about to say spike's. in the process of getting 4. two with the punisher engraving and two without. if you get 10 they are only 80 bucks! stag would be my next choice.
     
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