Racist Gunshops

[p35]

If this isn't too far OT, why don't we start putting pressure on gun show organizers to stop letting idiots sell racist/Nazi crap at gun shows? Gives all of us a bad name IMHO. Obviously, I'm not talking about Lugers or K98s, but Nazi flags, copies of Mein Kampf , the Turner Diaries , and junk like that.

 

[Jammer Six]

The best 7'-2" WNBA center, is not (IMO) any competition for a top notch 7'-2" NBA center.

That, perhaps, is one of our greatest losses.

You certainly can't claim that because there isn't a center in WNBA now that could play center in the NBA that one either doesn't or will never exist.

The way things are right now, we'll never know. Not to mention the young women who won't play basketball because the WNBA doesn't pay what the NBA does, and because they realize that separate is never equal.

Just like the black medal of honor winners and the black senior officers we wouldn't have if the black race had remained confined to their roles as truck drivers and cargo handlers because they obviously didn't have to courage to be American fighting men.

The only way to either prove or disprove your claim (and my claims) would be to lift all restrictions, and judge players on one and only one criteria- ability.

 

[GAC]

Shops and Gunshows

There is a shop in Scottsdale, AZ (NOT Bear Arms, that's a nice place) where the owner or manager was spouting off on his views. He covered pretty much everbody: Jews, Blacks, Gays, and others. His commentry on Jewish people included (this is fairly accurate paraphrasing), "Three thousand years of civilization and their greatest contribution to history is compound interest." His comments on black people were, "Slavery wasn't so bad. If it was why did it last so long?" On gays, "AIDS is God's way of clearing things up," and "AIDS started because the black Africans were F'ing the monkeys."

This dude went on for five to ten minutes. A fella can cover a lot of ground in that amount of time. I was listening from the other side of the shop, and at first thought he was just making fun of racists by hitting every silly stereotype in the book. He was not and the person he was talking to - the only other customer - seemed to be in agreement. This happened two of three years ago and I have not back there since.

Gun shows and Nazi/Racist vendors: I went to one of the Great Western Gun Shows in Phoenix a year or so ago and there were a couple guys outside passing out flyers complaining that the show organizer would not grant them table space, were blocking their first amendment rights, kicked them out of the last show without reason, blah blah blah.

I accepted a flyer, read it, and went to the organizer's table to ask them what the guy was talking about. I didn't really care what he was talking about but I was curious. The lady at the table said the people in question were selling racist and Nazi themed products and recruiting for the cause. The organizer had Multiple complaints and kicked them out. Good for them.

 

[Jim March]

Jammer Six:

What you're saying about the "closet racists" being more dangerous matches what I've heard from blacks in California who have also spent recent time in the South. They say that California is worse; sure, there's a few loudmouth racists in the South but they're open about it, while in California the racism consists of quiet backstabbing.

It's also true that there's two basic types of racists: the ones taught that way by family while young, and those that become that way because of constant exposure to artificially-created "ghettos" and the social chaos therein.

My brother and I were emphatically not raised as racists...both parents were very reasonable in such matters. My brother spent a couple of years as a process server, dealing mostly with cases in "the projects" around the SF Bay Area...Richmond, the nastier bits of East Palo Alto, Pittsburg, West Oakland, etc. Eventually, he realized it was warping his brain in a racist fashion. Intellectually, he knew that such "ghettos" were the result of past deliberately racist policies in housing, jobs, welfare structure and the like. Intellectually. Gut level, he was getting nauseated at the sight of black skin and did NOT like what was happening to him, nor was he proud of it. He not only got out of that work, he moved well away from such areas and people just to let his head clear.

I consider that a reasonable move under the circumstances.

Cops in particular run the risk of the same thing happening. Hence police racism in the urban areas is past "chronic", it's off-scale out of control - and that type of "racism" (really connected as much with a socioeconomic class and the "hip hop culture") affects BLACK COPS TOO. Most people can't understand that part, because they see all forms of racism as stemming from the same root when that isn't the case at all. Worse, because cops are operating in a group, the attitudes developed get reinforced, esp. when racist cops form their own cliques.

 

[clubsoda22]

After 9/11 there was a lot of anti-muslim racism. My best friend being a muslim i was quite offended when i went to a gun shows and saw a sign one one table reading "No Sales to Muslims."

So, i usually carry a bunch of cash with me to gun shows because i don't like to pay in plastic there, a $100 incase i make a big purchace about $200 in 20's some smaller bills. I happened to have about $20 in ones. so i rolled them all togeather in the bathroom with $100 on the outside to make this giant wad of cash that looked like at least several thousand dollars in hunded dollar bills.

I walked over to the table with the "no sales to muslims" sign and saw this beautiful preban colt delta H-bar with an adjustable leupold scope going for about $2500. It was the most expensive thing on his table. I started chatting with the gun shop owner about the gun and said after about 10 minutes, "ok, i'll take it" and yanked out the giant wad of cash. His eyes lit up like a kid on christmas and he quickly ran to get his paperwork. When he came back with the legal forms I said, "you know, i just noticed this sign here, and seeing as how i'm an american born muslim, i can assume you don't want my business." He begged and pleaded with me, attemped to justify the sign in any way possible. I called him a nazi and left.

The look on his face was priceless.

 

[BluesBear]

I was born & raised in Kentucky. I was taught all my life that all men were created equal. How they messed up their lives after that was up to them.

I don't judge a person by the colour of their skin I judge them on their level of stupidity. I have very low tolerance for stupid people. I know it's wrong and I am trying to change, but there are just so danged MANY of them! :banghead:

On another note (literally) I have spent a large portion of my life as a blues musician. I have played in many racially mixed bands. In one band the joke was, It was easy to spot me on stage, I was the white guy.

Now being from Kentucky I always considered myself a southerner (KY has that option). To the people I grew up with the Bars & Stars was just a flag that showed our pride in being from the south. It had NOTHING to do with racism or slavery. Yeah I know that some people deface it and spew moronic propoganda while carrrying one, but almost every lying politician on TV is seen speaking while standing in front of Old Glory. We don't blame the flag for their lies do we?

I know a ton of southern, non-racist, good ol' boys who fly the Stars & Bars.

Those who judge a person by the flag they fly are just as biggoted as the racists they think it signifies.

My Father's family came from England. I am also partial to the Union Jack.

But if I display the Union Jack no one seems to mind. I guess that little dispute in the mid 1700s has been forgiven. Perhaps someday that little conflict of the mid 1800s will be forgiven too.

As for the mid 1900s? Now that's gonna leave a scar.

I now live in Seattle and while I am proud to live in the Great Pacific Northwet, I will forever be damn proud to have been raised a Southern Gentleman.

United We Stand, Divided We Fall, Y'all.

 

[Jammer Six]

Those who judge a person by the flag they fly are just as biggoted as the racists they think it signifies

Actually, a racist judges you by something that's not in your control- your race.

Judging someone by a choice they make, like which flag to fly, is considerably different.

Your statement, therefore, while true, attempts to set those who judge by choice on the same level as those who judge by something over which the judged has no control, and those aren't even close.

You are, and will continue to be judged by the choices you make, and that's exactly as it should be.

Including the colors you fly.

 

[B_Scott]

Jammer - you are correct in the above post.
However, as BluesBear knows...American by birth, Southern by the grace of God.
If someone doesn't want to associate with me because I believe that Southerners died for a noble cause (NOT slavery), then so be it. Ignorance is bliss.

Anyway...At my favorite local gunshop there are 3 men behind the counter. None of them are racist. The shop is located just outside of a bad nieghborhood (like everything in the New Orleans area). Guns have been bought there that were used in crimes - they have been subpoena many times. This doesn't stop them from selling to blacks - nor should it. The shops target market is blacks in the neighborhood who want to protect themselves. This is one reason why I like this place. They sell alot of those "junk guns" that are the only protection poor people can afford. It is also the only shop that welcomes these "types of people".

 

[Andrew Rothman]

When he came back with the legal forms I said, "you know, i just noticed this sign here, and seeing as how i'm an american born muslim, i can assume you don't want my business." He begged and pleaded with me, attemped to justify the sign in any way possible. I called him a nazi and left.

The look on his face was priceless.

Beautiful. Bravo.

 

[Andrew Rothman]

I found a great little mom-and-pop gun shop, very near my house, nice selection, good prices, gunsmith on site.

I got into a conversation with the owner about buying and selling. He complained about how people would look at the price tag, and then try to "Jew me down."

Sigh. Did he even look at me? I mean, I am a poster child for semitic features: Big schnoz, glasses, even a black beard.

I said, sadly, "I wish you hadn't said that."

He made a bumbling apology. I made an exit. I found another gun shop.

 

[buzz_knox]

I got into a conversation with the owner about buying and selling. He complained about how people would look at the price tag, and then try to "Jew me down."

That statement is not, of itself, sufficient to brand one a racist. It is, rather, an extremely distasteful part of our language now. Many people don't even give a thought to its roots. I heard it my whole life and, notwithstanding my complete lack of anti-semitism, sometimes have to make a conscious effort to avoid its use.

 

[spacemanspiff]

anyone else see 'king of the hill' last night?

"peggy, look! ladybird is biting a WHITE guy! isnt that great?"

if you saw it, you'd get the joke.

 

[Jim March]

There are two reasons Jews got connected with "hardcore business practices" (esp. in Europe):

1) Jews weren't allowed to own land, so they had to go into some sort of business/merchant trade, or banking...

2) The Catholics were prohibited from loaning money at interest, but could borrow. Jews had no such restrictions, so some basically became venture capitalists. Nothing wrong with that, in fact today we understand the value of seed money and such. (Jewish money financed such startups as the British East India Company and scads of others...odd are the list would include Beretta probably more than once in it's 475 year history). But it led to a big problem, in that very often the town's aristocracy would find it easier to stir up a mob to kill the "Christ killers" than pay off their gambling debts or whatever...so the Jews had to keep their finances liquid enough to be carried while sprinting from a buncha yahoos with pitchforks. Hence the whole thing about "Jews and gold". A few Jewish banking families remain from those origins, the Rosthchilds being perhaps the most famous.

(Sidenote: Muslims were (and more or less remain) forbidden to either loan or borrow, although they've found some creative ways to sidestep that of late as banking got more respectable (not to mention necessary). This was one factor that has crippled their financial competitiveness, the other main issue being the inheritence laws that automatically dissolve all partnerships upon the death of one partner. Whoops. Running a family business past a generation is difficult in the Islamic world, past two nearly impossible.)

But anyways. That's the real story of the whole "Jews are stingy gold-hoarders" or whatever...it's all about past discrimination.

 

[wingnutx]

GAC- What scottsdale store would that be? I go to a couple in Scottsdale on occasion, and would like to know who to take off of my list.

 

[clubsoda22]

Gun owning american jews, such as myself, are rare enough. The guy should have paid attention.

 

[williegee]

I am Filipino-American and I find that whenever I walk into a gun shop or go to the range here in Texas, there's probably a 90% chance that I'm going to be the only Asian in the place. Having said that, I can honestly say that I have never been to a gun shop or range where I have feel I have been disciminated against or disrespected because of my ethnicity. Just lucky I guess. On the contrary, the people that I've had the pleasure of dealing with have always been nothing but corteous and helpful to both my wife (who happens to be white) and myself. Like with most professions, there is going to be that small percentage of people who are going to give the rest a bad name. I believe that most people in the "gun culture"are pretty good folks and my experience pretty much bears that out. My $0.02.
Everyone stay safe!

Will

 

[Moparmike]

Thanks Jim.

Ya know, you learn more here than in some learning institutions.

 

[Penforhire]

The comment that one racist does not make for a racist store is not completely accurate. If you noticed it in ten seconds that person's co-workers must know they are racist. So they tolerate it, if not actively support it. So to me one racist DOES make for a racist retail establishment.

And I tolerate just about everything except racists and other bigots. Guess that makes me a bigot of a different kind ...

 

[Andrew Rothman]

That statement is not, of itself, sufficient to brand one a racist.

...I heard it my whole life and, notwithstanding my complete lack of anti-semitism, sometimes have to make a conscious effort to avoid its use.

Try harder.

Is there some doubt in your mind what "Jew" or "******" or "Gook" means?

Once you reached the age where you knew what the words and phrases meant, the fact that you were not repelled by the thought of ever uttering them speaks to your long-ingrained prejudices.

Sorry. I choose to be much less accomodating of others' unthinking stereotypes.

 

[MrAcheson]

Jews had no such restrictions, so some basically became venture capitalists.

IIRC Mosiac law also holds that Jews and Gentiles can be treated using seperate (and not equal) rules. So it some areas it was a two way street of discrimination. Jews lent to Jews at significantly lower interest than Jews lent to gentiles. This obviously formed a seed for resentment between the two communities. I believe Mosiac law discourages this practice, but does still allow it.

And yes there are differences between the races and sexes. I am white and my family will likely have a much lower rate of Sickle-Cell Anemia than my african-american co-workers' families. I've gone to my girlfriend's synagogue and its definitely different from my church on a cultural level (although there are a surprising number of things which are similar). On the gender side of things, men don't get pregnant and tend to be physically stronger than women, but women tend to have better manual dexterity.

People are different. Sorry we are. We as a culture need to learn to deal with this and realize that different doesn't necessarily mean better or worse. You can be equal without being the same. At some level uniformity breaks down and different people have different problems.

 

[BluesBear]

TIME OUT !

Are you serious? Are you comparing the word Jew with those other two words?

I have been "jewed" but I have never been (those other two words)

I grew up in the country, we had jewish neighbors. Hells bells i didn't even know they were Jewish until I as about 9 or 10. They were just neighbors.

It was they whp taught me the phraseology "Jew someone down". Nowadays it may not be the most politically correct thing to say, but I was taught, that it just meant that the Jewish were better at bartering.

I have worked in three different pawnshops. One was owned by a Jewish family. One was owned by a Catholic family. One was owned by an "italian" family. What they had in common was that ALL of them were extremely stingy.

As I see it, to "Jew" someone is to haggle price or value.
And to "screw" someone is to out and out cheat them.


But hey what do I know, I'm just a WASP, whose great great grandfather came here from Ireland as an "Indentured Servant" which back then was just barely a notch above slave. In fact when he died decades later he was still indentured.


Black Flag still makes a poison spray to kill wasps and hornets but I try to not take it personally. (But I hear that the hornets are still upset.)

 

[p35]

Gentlemen:
I recognize that a Confederate flag can mean either "I'm a proud Southerner" or "I'm a racist a-hole", and that the two don't necessarily go together. However, I live about as far from the South as it's possible to get without leaving the CONUS, so we don't get a lot of proud Southerners around here. Also, I wouldn't think twice about a Confederate flag bumper sticker, but where someone is going to great lengths to wave it in everyone's face on the 4th of July, as I originally described, I get suspicious of their motives.

Hope I didn't offend too many people with my original post.

 

[TaxPhd]

What was described in the original post (and others following it) would accurately be described as "Bigotry," not racism. Racism is the belief in the inherent superiority of one race vis-a-vis another, and that is not what happened.

Given the inflamatory nature of the word, precision is important.

 

[Harold Mayo]

Just my own experience, of course, but I HAVE visited most of the gun stores in the major cities of the Midwest and the South and I have found that gun store employees are, by and by, some of the MOST prejudiced people that I've met. Not just in terms of race but in terms of almost anything. I am actually surprised if I am in a gunstore and a minority or group of minorities walk in and they are NOT looked at "funny" by the employees.

 

[Wildalaska]

IIRC Mosiac law also holds that Jews and Gentiles can be treated using seperate (and not equal) rules. So it some areas it was a two way street of discrimination. Jews lent to Jews at significantly lower interest than Jews lent to gentiles. This obviously formed a seed for resentment between the two communities. I believe Mosiac law discourages this practice, but does still allow it.

Your wrong but unfortunately this aint the Board to discuss it

WiltalmudAlaska