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Ramblings about use

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Blkhrt13, May 17, 2018.

  1. Blkhrt13

    Blkhrt13 Member

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    i have a few questions for y’all.
    How many rounds do you think the average shooter burns in their main gun? How often do they do
    Minor parts changes? Recoil spring swap? Do you clean it properly and inspect ? I’m just trying to understand why some people seem so scared of needing to put some work into a machine. If You buy a car used or new do you look at it first? I mean run it through not just stand back and look at the exterior? Why not for guns?
     
  2. Wisco

    Wisco Member

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    i have a few questions for y’all.
    How many rounds do you think the average shooter burns in their main gun?

    Average shooter? Maybe 50 when they buy it.

    How often do they do Minor parts changes?

    Unless it’s an initial upgrade, never.

    Recoil spring swap?

    Average shooter never makes it that far. It’s 5,000 rounds on a G19. I change them at 2,500.

    Do you clean it properly and inspect ?

    Glocks every 2,000 rounds. Total strip and clean. ARs every 500-1,000. 22 pistols and rifles after every session. Hunting rifles after every use. My 870s get wiped down when dirty - rarely thoroughly.

    I’m just trying to understand why some people seem so scared of needing to put some work into a machine. If You buy a car used or new do you look at it first? I mean run it through not just stand back and look at the exterior? Why not for guns?

    Most people don’t let you try a gun before you buy. That makes a new gun used. And used guns most people don’t have the time to show and tell and shoot.

    Most people here are avid shooters, some professionals - those types are going to have far different answers for round counts, parts, mods, and cleaning.
     
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  3. Blkhrt13

    Blkhrt13 Member

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    Of course I understand here at THR it’s not the same as the common shooter. I’ve just been digging through the webs and old HighRoad posts and it seems the one time there was issues with the 92 series it made folks scared of them. I guess what I’m getting at or to is that with my back ground I try to consider all tools equally. They all need some basic maintenance. The only gun that lasts forever is the one that doesn’t get used.
     
  4. RedlegRick

    RedlegRick Member

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    I guess I'm an average shooter, since I'm not into competition, hunting, or carry one for pay. Usually, I go out twice a month to my club, and rarely exceed 100 rounds in a session, for a couple of reasons.
    One, I'm not well off enough to shoot more than that, two, my main weapon (which is the one in my avatar),isn't one that lends itself to prolonged sessions. KT PF-9s are brutal to shoot more that 25 rounds, and I generally keep it around that level.
    When I break out my Glock, it's usually after a reloading session with a friend, and it's like shooting her new all over again. Sometimes she doesn't leave her comfy home in my safe for a couple months at a time.
    The ones that really see action are my .22s, a Keystone Crickett and Walther P22, the former over the latter. Nature Boy (my pet name for it), is my Zen gun, for lack of a better word. I shoot it for the simple joy of shooting, and by its design, can spend a good amount of time for not a lot of money.
    My 12 gauge, on the other hand, is one I only take out for 'business', as in game hunting for food or pest control. She might see daylight once a year, or every month, depending on circumstances.

    (Edited to add this)
    I clean my weapons as soon as possible after a session, especially my .22s, just because that ammo is so dirty and greasy. I only fix something if it's broke and only add accessories if I really need to, like sights or slings.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
  5. Panzerschwein

    Panzerschwein member

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    Don't think I've shot any of my pistols to need to replace parts yet. Have swapped some parts on guns that've acted up or broken but none have "worn out" really. I give my range guns a quick cleaning after each session and any defensive guns get a more detailed cleaning, I never put away a truly dirty gun unless I'm tired and it's a range beater that I would use for any serious purpose.

    As for round count it varies a lot depending on what I'm shooting but usually between 100-250 rounds for autopistols or revolvers. Shotguns maybe 50-100 rounds and same for rifles.
     
  6. mjsdwash

    mjsdwash Member

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    I use a scale to measure recoil springs and replace them when necessary. So far only 1911's have needed it. Otherwise I wait until something stops working. Highest round count firearms I've encountered were my M&A AR, with approx 20,000 rounds, as configured without anything changed, and a friends CZ75 going on 35,000 without any parts, even a recoil spring. He lends it to anyone who asks (while he's there), and lets them shoot it an unlimited amount, and doesn't care how fast. Still holding up.
     
  7. Panzerschwein

    Panzerschwein member

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    Don't think I've shot any of my pistols to need to replace parts yet. Have swapped some parts on guns that've acted up or broken but none have "worn out" really. I give my range guns a quick cleaning after each session and any defensive guns get a more detailed cleaning, I never put away a truly dirty gun unless I'm tired and it's a range beater that I would use for any serious purpose. Parts are inspected while cleaning for any wear or breakages. Gun maintenance is a simple thing really and there is much hand wringing on what lubes/cleaners to use etc.

    As for round count it varies a lot depending on what I'm shooting but usually between 100-250 rounds for autopistols or revolvers. Shotguns maybe 50-100 rounds and same for rifles.
     
  8. reddog81

    reddog81 Member

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    Most people don't shoot enough to ever need to replace anything. Most people have no clue how anything mechanical works.

    I changed the brake pads on my car 2 weeks ago and a dozen people in my office think I'm probably going to die in a fiery car crash because it's inconceivable that someone other than a certified mechanic would know how to do something like that.
     
  9. RPZ

    RPZ Member

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    And Wisco's first reply is why many used guns can be a really good buy.

    Often just a box of ammo round count - sometimes less.

    Often stock, as from the factory.

    And being "used" at that point, cheaper than "new". Sometimes a lot cheaper.
     
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  10. Blkhrt13

    Blkhrt13 Member

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    Dead with laughter
     
  11. BigBore44

    BigBore44 Member

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    I don’t shoot that much right now. School and clinicals take up pretty much all my free time. But when that is over I will get back to normal. Probably 200-300 a session a couple times a week. Not a lot by some standards. But I don’t just shoot to hear the gun go bang.

    As for cleaning, I don’t clean my guns that often. I used to. But I realized that it just wasn’t necessary. So my 10mm get a cleaning and inspection every 300-400 rounds. My XD every 300-400. My Redhawk probably every 100 rounds. And my hunting rifles when the accuracy starts to suffer, or they develope some surface rust from sweat or just sitting out in the elements.

    Used guns are where it’s at for me. Good deals. Usually slicked up actions from use, and anything that’s wrong with them, well I haven’t found one I couldn’t fix.
     
  12. BigBore44

    BigBore44 Member

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    It’s so true though. People look at you like you’re crazy when you tell them you do your own maintenance. Average price for a mechanic is ~$95/hr. And they charge by the time a book says it’s supposed to take. I do my oil changes, transmission service, differentials, U-joints, shocks, struts, ball joints, control arms, CV shafts, seals, wheel bearing/hub assemblies, gasket sets if the motor needs new gaskets, injectors, coils, plugs wires, etc. and I have since I was 15. No telling how much money I’ve saved.
     
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  13. Blkhrt13

    Blkhrt13 Member

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    I do 90 percent of my auto work as well. I figured there would be plenty of folks who cross over and work on all their stuff.
     
  14. entropy

    entropy Member

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    I wouldn't know; I'm not your average shooter. (not an arrogant statement, just not average.)
     
  15. Scooter22

    Scooter22 Member

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    I don't know what you mean by "Main gun". I have a lot of guns I shoot. There isn't a main one like a side arm thats always carried. I fix what I have including vehicles. Nice thing is my son decided he wanted to be a mechanic after helping me in the driveway since he was little. He likes Jeeps. So he got his degree in Automotive technology and got hired by one of the oldest top rated garages (80 years) in the area. Works on used to new. Domestic to high end imports. And they specialize in classics. Best thing is he now works on our stuff. Main payment is being together and a dinner of his request. Oh I still do reloading for him until he gets settled. As far as those people that think it's crazy to work on your own stuff. If I have the tools I can do it with I will. Then I know its done right before going down the road at 65mph instead of hopeing it was by someone I paid to do it.
     
  16. Wisco

    Wisco Member

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    As for doing your own work on guns, cars, homes...I’ve paid enough people $50-150/hr to mess things up that I’ll often spend the time to learn to do it myself unless the cost for specific one time use tools is high.
     
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  17. hdwhit

    hdwhit Member

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    I don't know enough shooters nationwide to answer this for the "average shooter", but most shooter that I know only visit a range two to four times a year and then only expend 50 to 100 rounds. So, to answer your question, I my experience suggests it is somewhere on the order of 200 or so rounds per year.

    Minor parts changes are made when things break.

    I don't know anyone that has made a recoil spring swap (apart from owners of Taurus PT-111 pistols who replaced the factory plastic recoil spring assembly pre-emptively with a stainless steel after-market one).

    Every shooter I know is "religious" (I put that in quotes because most shooters I know, I know through church) about cleaning their firearm after shooting it.

    Apart from my 93 year old father (who leaves his fired guns for me to clean during quarterly visits), I don't know anyone who is "scared" of cleaning their guns. Even in my father's case, it isn't as much a question of being "scared" as it is that he doesn't have a lot of energy at his age and cleaning his gun(s) is a task he can leave for me without significantly damaging his gun(s).

    Recently, I have bought all of my cars/trucks used from a used car seller offering a 12 month/12,000 mile warranty on all the mechanical systems of the vehicle. They have a third-party shop conduct a 109-point inspection of the vehicle and correct any deficiencies before they put it on their lot. When I buy from them, my inspection of the vehicle is rather superficial as I know I can rely on the the inspection done by the third-party-shop (since I use the same third-party-shop myself for maintenance).

    If I were to buy a used vehicle from an existing owner, it would go to a third-part ASE certified shop for inspection before I put down a single dollar on it.

    And, regrettably, when purchasing a used gun, I lack the ability to do Magnetic Particle Inspection on the functional parts of the firearm, so I have to rely on a visual inspection of the bore, the bolt and the other parts of the gun.
     
  18. Skoghund

    Skoghund Member

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    My shotgun, double rifle and combi are cleaned after every time they are shot. My Mauser bolt action rifle is cleaned after a couple of hundred rounds or when when I've been hunting in the rain. .22 rifle is never cleaned only wiped over with my lightly oiled cloth.
     
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  19. LoonWulf

    LoonWulf Member

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    I probably shoot a little more than average. While i dont shoot handguns very often, when i do ill usually shoot 2-300 rounds in an outing. Rifles depending on the gun will usually see 50-100rnds a year, My "blasters" may see a couple thousand a year. My shotgun 50-100 rounds during a day of trap, and maybe 30 shots during bird season.

    Living in Hilo, every gun gets a complete cleaning after a day of use, except my .22 that gets an oiled pull thru, then a dry.
    I completely break down every firearm i own every 6 months to a year, or when ever i get bored enough. I almost always find rust in weird places, like trigger pivot pins, and under scope mounts.

    I modify EVERYTHING, so as often as not, ill change or modify a part long before it needs to be replaced. Ive ruined a few parts during modification, so those were obviously replaced.

    I replace parts as they start showing visible ware, breakage, or when i notice a change in a firearms operation. Ive only ever had to replace a few parts due to breakage.


    Im weird, Ill pay someone to do work on my cars (id love to pay for all work done, but i just cant afford that), but i almost always go back and check on stuff. Especially high volume low cost work like brake jobs, fluid, changes, tune ups, tire/suspension work etc....Ive found more than once that my brakes were not bled after a pad, rotor, or other change that requires dismounting the brake. (which while not monumental is something i always do), ive found loose lug nuts, a stripped lug from an impact installed nut.

    Gun wise ive seen alot of poor quality work done by ameture smiths (ive done some myself, thus most of my replacement parts). Ive seen poorly done parts installs by gun shop counter guys. Ive even seen mistakes in work by good gunsmiths.
    Im including my experiences with Paintball guns in this.

    End of the day, generally my feeling is if your going to USE a tool, machine, etc, best to know enough to spot a problem, or screw up, yours or otherwise.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
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  20. huntsman

    huntsman Member

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    Sone people like to tinker some don’t.

    I knew a LGS owner who confessed he didn’t clean his handguns, shot them till dirty then took them to his Smith for cleaning, just like autos some do maintenance themselves some take it to a shop, I don’t think either one is more virtuous than the other.
     
  21. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    I shoot weekly. Without fail, 100 rounds each through my Glock 17 and Ruger std model. I clean the Glock every 500 rounds or so, and replace parts when they break. In addition, I will typically fire about 3 different rifles each session. They get cleaned after each use.
     
  22. Sovblocgunfan

    Sovblocgunfan Member

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    YES!!! I'm in the same boat, and I work with engineers and people who spend money for a living. Oh boy...

    Look, I'm a bit of a skinflint, but I just don't have money to buy new guns. All of mine come to me well-used. That being said, I better know or be able to learn how to fix what's broke, if needed, or modify so that I can work the firearm better. I don't mind that at all. It helps me understand how the firearm works, and what to do if something goes wrong.

    My "main gun", if such a thing exists, would be a shotgun of some flavor. Usually for clay games or hunting. 750 rounds a year, all told, would be a decent guess. Given the fact that most of my shotguns are old and well-used, and the idea that shotguns are fairly simple machines, it only makes sense that I maintenance them myself; I have a reasonable mechanical aptitude, but would go to a smith for complex work like a barrel change or headspace correction or brazing/soldering activities.

    And I think an "average shooter" (I count myself as one of these) should be able to field strip, inspect, clean, and make basic spring swaps or replace simple parts. I don't think an "average shooter" should be expected to complete barrel changes or correct headspace or do stockwork, but I do think they should be able to understand a malfunction, identify obviously broken parts (like an extractor, or something) and be able to broadly diagnose issues. It's a responsibility that goes along with learning how to use your tools.
     
  23. .308 Norma

    .308 Norma Member

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    Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!:rofl:
    Yeppers, I've experienced the same sort of thing many times when something electrical has broken down and my first reaction was to take it apart, figure out what went wrong, and fix it. But that's because I spent most of my working years in the various electrical trades. It seems like a lot of academically educated people consider electricity dangerous and mysterious - not to be messed with.
    But getting back to the subject - maybe that way of thinking, or physiological makeup, or whatever you want to call it isn't quite as prevalent among gun people as it is among the general population. But it still exists. I have several friends who are avid shooters and hunters, yet they consider handloading as "dangerous and mysterious" as electricity, while it's my favorite pass-time.:)
     
  24. jonb32248

    jonb32248 Member

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    I clean mine every time out. I'm retired so I have the time. I reload all my stuff and shoot almost every week about 100-140 rds. Haven't had to replace anything yet ( sorry just remembered I replaced a striker spring in my sr9c). Off topic I just paid someone to replace my brakes, I don't have a place or tools to do it anymore. He did a better job than I would have anyway.
     
  25. stchman

    stchman Member

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    I don't really have a "main" gun. I just enjoy shooting.

    I only change parts IF something isn't working right.

    I inspect and clean any guns after each range trip.

    I keep stock parts in my guns, especially my SD guns.
     
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