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Range accuracy of short barreled autos?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Shinbone, May 12, 2012.

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  1. Shinbone

    Shinbone Member

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    I have a Taurus PT92 (9mm) and also a Ruger SR40c. I go to an outdoor pistol range that is 75 feet. I think I'm either a terrible shot, or I'm expecting too much from short barreled autos. I know the Ruger is basically a SD firearm. But what size groups should I expect at this distance?
    Thanks.
     
  2. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    It is probably you. Barrel length has little to do with the accuracy of a gun. So long as the rifling spins the bullet properly and the crown of the barrel is proper, it should be fine.

    There are other factors involved such as barrel lockup, but length alone should not be a problem mechanically. Shorter radius guns are more difficult to align the sights on a consistent basis, however. So while the gun may be fine for shooting better groups, the visual ergonomics may make that difficult for you to accomplish.

    You didn't post what your groups were, but since you are finding that with both guns you can't do well, it is probably you.
     
  3. 2wheels

    2wheels Member

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    With tiny guns, it's normally the shooter. They're generally pretty accurate mechanically, even 2" barreled revolvers can impress you when fired from a rest.
     
  4. kokapelli

    kokapelli Member

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    25 yards is a pretty fair distance for short barrels.
     
  5. wow6599

    wow6599 Member

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    I used to have problems with accuracy and short barrels, or what I thought was a short barrel problem. Then I bought a Kahr PM9.....it's as accurate (sometimes more) as other FS 9mm auto's out there.

    YMMV.
     
  6. Shinbone

    Shinbone Member

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    I think it might be me too. My eyes aren't as good as they used to be. As far as groups, ha, I'd have to put up a muzzleloading target to find that out. :D
    Or maybe stand next to the side of a barn. :rolleyes:
    Seriously, I'd have to say maybe 6 to 8" groups. And that's being nice about it. Always shooting from a rest.
    Maybe I need to go back to the rifle side with 22's for awhile.
     
  7. Ash

    Ash Member

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    There is accuracy and accuracy. A shorter sight distance creates a greater margin of error - even the best shooter can have issues with that. Longer sight radii are easier to shoot consistently. Add to that increased muzzle flip in some models, shooting them is not as easy. The pistol might have fine inherent mechanical accuracy, but if it is more difficult to shoot accurately due to the limitations of the human hand, that is understandable.
     
  8. Shinbone

    Shinbone Member

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    Thanks, Ash. That makes me feel better.:)
     
  9. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    Not quite 25 yards, but a bit over 20 yards...

    I was working with a client yesterday and we were standing at 8 inch paper plates. He was having a hard time grouping with his H&K P2000SK so I took it and put a three shots on the lower half of a 3"x5" card...so about 3". This was using the LEM DAO action...no trigger staging, just pulling through. MY Kahr CW9 will hold a bit tighter

    My IDPA CDP gun shot into about half of that...but I was taking my time aligning the sights
     
  10. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    What limitations of the human hand? Certainly the short sight radius that can make shooting accurately more difficult has nothing to do with the hands. Maybe you were talking about muzzle flip and grip lack of control? Additional muzzle flip as compared to longer sight radius guns should not have any significant effect on accuracy. Guns with significant muzzle flip can be shot accurately and consistently, at least during slow fire. The additional muzzle flip, may cause problems with making faster followup shots simply because the additional flip will require more time and effort to return the gun to target.
     
  11. Ash

    Ash Member

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    Yes, they have much to do with the hands. The short radius makes it more difficult to register, and so control, movement in the hands. The increased muzzle-flip also means that you have greater distance to return to the consistent aiming point, which is more difficult to maintain because it is less easy to observe changes relative to the sights because they are not as observable. The shorter sight radius does make it less easy to shoot, regardless of whether or not it has inherent accuracy. Why is it, then, that the vast majority of people shoot rifles more accurately than pistols (compare, say, a single shot pistol to a single-shot rifle) if this is not the case?

    That is not to say they cannot be shot accurately, but it does not mean that a 6 inch Colt and a 2 inch Colt will be equally easy to shoot.
     
  12. mgregg85

    mgregg85 Member

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    My glock 29sf is a lot more accurate than I am.
     
  13. Mike J

    Mike J Member

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    Any of my handguns are much more accurate than I am. I just accept the fact that the limiting factor is the loose nut behind the trigger.
     
  14. HGUNHNTR

    HGUNHNTR Member

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    Barrel length does not affect mechanical accuracy. Any deficiency because of a short barrel rests with the shooter.
     
  15. jfrey

    jfrey Member

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    Move up closer to your target and see what happens. If grouping improves, practice there for a while to get confident then move back in small incriments. You will probably see your accuracy improve at the longer ranges.
     
  16. coalman

    coalman Member

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    OP: Expectations are too high in general IMO. Shootin' ain't like the movies. Move the target in to 7 yards or less. In time, consider moving out... maybe.
     
  17. olderguns

    olderguns Member

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    I can't do better then 5 or 6 inch groups @ 15 yards thats with my G29, and worse with my SP101 2inch 357,,, just have to accept I'll never be a Great shot, but It should be good enough for self defense (I HOPE)... and for me the main reason I shoot I have FUN every time I get to the range...
     
  18. foghornl

    foghornl Member

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    I'm no good with a "mouse gun", either. Something to do with my 59-year old tri-focal wearing diabetic eyes and not so steady hands.

    Shooting Budd has a long-barrel Vaquero (6-1/2") that i shoot pretty well, but no so much with my 3-3/4" Sheriff's model Vaquero. So, same effect with short-barrel revolvers..short sighting radius.
     
  19. Shinbone

    Shinbone Member

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    Foghorn, same for me. Trifocals that aren't much good at the range, fuzzy sight picture and not so steady any more. I think I will move closer to the target and see how that works out.
     
  20. KenW.

    KenW. Member

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    My 3" 9mm and 40SW duty guns will be consistant X, 10, and 9 rings at 25 even on stress shoots using a standard police silhouette target. B-27?
     
  21. haybaler

    haybaler Member

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    I don't shoot at paper much anymore because it's too depressing not being able to group well. I shoot at bowling pins and firewood about the same size. If I can knock that stuff over at 20 or 25 yards I figure that's good enough.
     
  22. moto_stevo

    moto_stevo Member

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    Practice, practice, practice... Right handed people naturally shoot to the left. Don't be discouraged. Most self defense encounters happen within 7 yds not 25.
    The best thing I have done was join the IDPA and shoot their monthly matches. It's a more " real world" practice as you have to shoot targets at distances of 1 to 20 yds and utilize cover and movement.
    Focus on your motions and movement while pulling the trigger. And don't push the trigger finger in too deep, just the tip pulling straight back
     
  23. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Member

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    They can surprise you. Last time I had my Kahr CW9 at the range, I finished the shooting with a 12 shot group at 25 yards using my carry ammo. The overall group was a little under 4.75" with the best 10 shots out of the 12 grouping into just 3".
     
  24. Bammac

    Bammac Member

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    All the practice in the world cant beat Anno Domini....I'll never be the shot I once had the potential to be. But I still have a lot of fun at the range.

    And when I get the urge to print some nice groups, I get out a scoped rifle, sit down, allow myself to doze just a bit...and calmly punch nice holes.

    With handguns I just try to stay competant to 15 yrds.
     
  25. wildehond

    wildehond Member

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