Range incident - opinions wanted

[thorazine]

But "Jim" needs to chill out a bit, and see a talkative old man for who he is, and simply "yes" him until he goes away.

I was brought up to respect one's elders, you DO NOT yell and curse at an old man unless they've put hands on you or your property, or started in with a verbal tirade.

Screw respect...

A lot of the ranges around here charge by the hour.


Old timers that want to chit chat with me better be ready to pay my range fees.


Some of us are there to shoot not turn it in to a social club.





Mind your own business and shoot or take up a social activity which doesn't involve loud bangs.

 

[Rotnguns]

They closed the range where I used to shoot, so I found another. When I paid my money and was speaking to the cashier, I asked him if there were any special range rules I needed to be aware of. He said no, just the usual, and that they were safety oriented. I said "Good, then basically don't do nuthing stupid". He laughed and said right.

I go to the range and started shooting and after a while they called a halt so folks could go down range. Almost everyone went down range, but I didn't need to, so I opened the bolt to my Mauser stood up and looked around. A guy started talking to me and I responded. Since people were milling around I put my hand on the open received so I'd know if someone was messing with the rifle while my back was turned as I talked. This was the preferred method at my previous range. At the new place, one was supposed to step three feet back and not touch a gun, but I didn't know that. I had asked.

I had my ear plugs in and couldn't hear anyone more than a few feet away. Finally I hear someone yelling and I turn to see ths other shooter that was red-faced screaming and swearing at me. The range master was also looking at me, but was upset at both of us and confused at what to do. I removed an ear plug so I could hear what was going and the guy screamed you blankety-blank get your #$%%^& hand off that gun! Don't you know the *&^%%$# rules!?!?!?!

Remainig calm I stepped away and said sorry, I in fact didn't know the rule against that, and would stay away from the rifle. He continued to scream about getting me kicked off the range and banned from the facility, but I said nothing and just leaned up against the table and relaxed while the range master told him to resume his position. No one else said anything, and I was the last one to my position when the range went hot just so the range master could see that I was trying to cooperate. The guy kept looking aver at me and glaring for another 30 mins as my son told me, but I never looked his way or said anything.

Now, I could have gotten into an argueent for his graceless action and foul mouth, but I was new at the range and don't like negative incidents anyway. The guy finally left, and as I was leaving I asked the range master for a list of the rules. He smiled and handed it over. The only one I hadn't obeyed was the hands off rule when all were down range. I know better now, and I've never seen the guy there again. Everyone there seem to be a great bunch of guys and there have been no problems fitting in. If I'd have reacted in a negative manner, then that might not have been the case.

jim

Chainsaw, good job for staying cool and not escalating the situation. That being said...not touching guns on the line when people are downrange is a very, very good idea, and it's a rule at just about every range I've been at. It's especially important when there are no range officers (we have no such people in Idaho).

 

[toivo]

For what it's worth, in New York state: "Persons between age 18 and 21 may possess a handgun at an indoor or outdoor pistol range located in or on premises owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization organized for conservation purposes or to foster proficiency in small arms. A person between the ages of 18 and 21 may also possess a handgun at a target pistol shooting competition under the auspices of or approved by the NRA and while under immediate supervision."

That's right, but the point of the OP was that the girl was actually over 21. Over 21 and no permit = can't shoot a handgun no matter what.

It's an incredibly stupid law, probably the stupidest of the whole raft of stupid handgun laws in this state. You can start training at 18 but you have to stop at 21 for as long as it takes until your permit can be processed (which can be as much as a year)? How is that supposed to be a good thing? :banghead:

 

[easyg]

Screw respect...

A lot of the ranges around here charge by the hour.

Old timers that want to chit chat with me better be ready to pay my range fees.

Excellent point!

I wonder how much money in range time old "Joe" has cost other shooters while he was playing BATF agent wannabe.

 

[jcwit]

Quote:
Screw respect...

A lot of the ranges around here charge by the hour.

Old timers that want to chit chat with me better be ready to pay my range fees.

Excellent point!

I wonder how much money in range time old "Joe" has cost other shooters while he was playing BATF agent wannabe.

Yup! Thats the High Road!

 

[parsimonious_instead]

In spite of what I witnessed, it's still a relaxed, comfortable and friendly place to shoot.
It IS the sort of place where people generally MYOB...
No one's time was wasted during any "Joe" interactions - he chose his moments to bring up NYS gun laws during ceasefires.
Additionally, there's no hourly fee there. Just $125/year, come as often as you want.
The place is never, as far as I can tell, filled to capacity.

 

[parsimonious_instead]

toivo:

>It's an incredibly stupid law, probably the stupidest of the whole raft of stupid handgun >laws in this state. You can start training at 18 but you have to stop at 21 for as long >as it takes until your permit can be processed (which can be as much as a year)? How >is that supposed to be a good thing?

I certainly agree that it's about as dumb a law as you can get. I don't think, anyone really cares about it, absent of a safety violation, except for Joe, and perhaps a REALLY by-the-book police officer.

FYI, though - the permit processing is speeding up quite a bit.
Mine came through in seven weeks, which is apparently becoming quite typical,
rather than six+ months.

 

[Dookie]

Three feet of personal space. If I don't know you then keep your distance. If I am doing something unsafe then I am fine with being bugged.

People like Joe I don't like. Go away and leave me alone. If you want to talk fine, not while I am in the middle of something. Don't quote laws unless you can back them up.

People like Jim I don't like. If he has a daughter that is over 20, and as the OP stated, well over 20, which could mean close to thirty, then Jim is probably mid 40's possibly pushing 50. Sorry to break it to you all, THAT IS NOT YOUNG anymore. You are old enough to keep your cool and not scream.

I don't care how old you are, if you want respect you earn it. I don't expect to just be given respect, why should you based on age.

 

[Pat M]

Toivo is correct! We certainly do have nutty laws in NY state. According to my co-worker NRA instructor, if she is over 21, she can only shoot with her NRA instructor dad if she has a pistol license, or a submitted application pending approval. Several years ago, when I took the NRA basic pistol class, I was the only student out of 6 who had a license. That is no longer permissible. Geez, now that the Supreme Court has ruled that we have the right to keep a handgun in the home for self-defense, I hope my unlicensed wife does not use one of mine to defend my family from an armed intruder.

 

[DustyVermonter]

I probably would not have started screaming but being respectful definitely wouldn't have been my #1 concern while chatting with Joe, in fact I probably would have just flat out ignored him completely, like he didn't even exsist. Some people are not even worth acknowledging in my opinion. I don't agree with the fact that jim thought his NRA certification was a free pass to do whatever he wanted but I can definitely relate to his frustration, I am not an explosive maniac but I'm sure we have all had days where we would just like to spit fire and somebody coming over to split hairs with you about something so insignificant when you're just trying to blow off some steam at the range because you're having a miserable week, behind on your mortgage, Wife just left you, Etc.... Is just about all someone needs to get pushed over the edge. I'm sure some people can relate. Personally I prefer people just to leave me the hell alone and MTOB. Maybe jim has an explosive personality and screams his head off all the time, or maybe he had a lot on his mind and lost his temper, either way joe should not provoke people, especially at the gun range, never would have happenned if joe knew how to pay attention to the two feet in front of him instead of concerning himself with other people. What ever happenned to individualist's and respecting ones privacy and personal space? I look around at the world today and see more bleating sheep(busybodies) than ever before. I think I missed my generation......yea, joe would have pissed me off

 

[LHRGunslinger]

I've worked in the customer service industry for about 6 years now. The first thing you learn in that industry is EVERYONE is a jerk and/or an idiot. I know that's going to offend some people, but screaming at your computer tech isn't going to solve the problem.

The way it should have gone down is:
"How old is she?"
"(insert age here)"
"You know that according to NY law she shouldn't be shooting"
"I'm an NRA Cert instructor so I have the right to teach anyone of any age how to shoot."
"Oh I didn't know that."
End of story.

EDIT:
The Moral of this story is: Common Sense and Common Curtosey are so rare they're a freaking super power.

 

[easyg]

No, this is the way it should have gone down:

"How old is she?"
"(insert age here)"
"I think it's great that the young lady is interested in firearms and shooting. We need more ladies like her. Happy and safe shooting."
"Thanks. Happy and safe shooting to you too."

End of story.

 

[LHRGunslinger]

touche.

 

[DustyVermonter]

Or how about this RM:Hey joe, if you can't manage to keep to yourself and leave folks be, then I'm sorry, but you won't be able to participate at this range anymore. Our range members prefer to have their privacy and don't want to be hasssled everytime there's the slightest infraction, if we see something we don't like, we will handle it. We like havin ya around joe, but if this continues to be a problem, you're gonna have to find another place to shoot.

RM: Hey jim, if we see another episode like that, you're gonna have to leave the range. We understand your frustration with joe but this is a family place and you got pretty vulgar back there.