range limit for the m1 garand?
- Thread starter FlyinBryan
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KSCCHTrainer
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When I went through Army basic training at Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri back in 1961, the M14 was being issued to the field troops, but there weren't enough of them to go around, and all the basic trainees (Boots to you Navy and Marine guys) were issued well worn M1 Garands.
The "Trainfire" concept of popup targets out to 600 meters (may have still been yards then, I don't remember) that dropped when you hit them or the specific time limit had passed was in place and believe me, the 600 meter target was NOT difficult to hit at all if you paid attention to your sight picture & bullet drop during the practice sessions. We never got the chance to shoot at ranges beyond 600 at Leonard Wood, so I never got the chance to shoot any farther than that with the M1. The 30-06 round was (and is) capable of doing lethal damage quite a bit farther out than that.
My father tells of hitting and sinking 55 gallon steel drums at sea out to 1000 yards or more off the fantail of their ship with a 1903 Springfield while they were on their way out to the South Pacific during WW-2. His eyes were quite a bit better than 20-20 though, and even at 97, they are still much better than mine. He's color blind, and I suspect the enhanced contrast he experienced from not being fooled by shifting color patterns of the waves had a lot to do with being able to see those barrels out that far. He certainly was never fooled by the camouflage in use at the time and almost got in trouble once from spotting a camo'd installation that they weren't supposed to be able to see.
The "Trainfire" concept of popup targets out to 600 meters (may have still been yards then, I don't remember) that dropped when you hit them or the specific time limit had passed was in place and believe me, the 600 meter target was NOT difficult to hit at all if you paid attention to your sight picture & bullet drop during the practice sessions. We never got the chance to shoot at ranges beyond 600 at Leonard Wood, so I never got the chance to shoot any farther than that with the M1. The 30-06 round was (and is) capable of doing lethal damage quite a bit farther out than that.
My father tells of hitting and sinking 55 gallon steel drums at sea out to 1000 yards or more off the fantail of their ship with a 1903 Springfield while they were on their way out to the South Pacific during WW-2. His eyes were quite a bit better than 20-20 though, and even at 97, they are still much better than mine. He's color blind, and I suspect the enhanced contrast he experienced from not being fooled by shifting color patterns of the waves had a lot to do with being able to see those barrels out that far. He certainly was never fooled by the camouflage in use at the time and almost got in trouble once from spotting a camo'd installation that they weren't supposed to be able to see.
In indirect fire with boat tailed rounds it is effective to around 4,000 yards. Wind is a large factor. Not accurate. I'm not aware of any instances where M1s were actually volley fired in action this way. Mostly machine guns used in area denial.
http://www.researchpress.co.uk/longrange/sandyhook.htm
http://www.researchpress.co.uk/longrange/sandyhook.htm
The 30-06 cartridge is potentially lethal a lot farther away than one can reliably hit with an iron-sited Garand. Guesses in the 5-600 yard range are credible, much beyond that you can't see a man sized target in the field.
Two miles is 3,520 yards. Please.
Two miles is 3,520 yards. Please.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
Read it closely. He said you could hit the ground at 3.5 miles, which you indeed can (given about 30 degrees elevation of the rifle), since that is the maximum physical range of a .30-06. But to hit an actual target, you're looking at 800 yards or so if the shooter is good enough.
Various cartridges farthest reach. Not necessarily lethal at this point. CEP 10s of yards.
Table II – Range of various cartridges
Table II – Range of various cartridges
Code:
CALIBER Grains Velocity COEF Yards Miles
.22 LR (SV) 40 1145 .128 1500 .85
.22 LR (HV) 40 1335 .128 1565 .89
.380 ACP 95 970 .08 1089 .62
.45 ACP PISTOL 234 820 .16 1640 .93
.30 CARBINE 111 1970 .179 2200 1.25
.30 BALL M2 152 2800 .40 3500 1.99
.30 BT M1 172 2600 .56 5500 3.12
.30-40 KRAG 220 2000 .34 4050 2.30
.50 AP M2 718 2840 .84 7275 4.13I'd say they're pretty accurate. Mine is one of the least accurate m-1's I've seen producing four moa groups. Despite this, I recently shot it past 100 yards for the first time. I set up a man sised target at 300 yards wondering if a cold bore hit was possible just by dialing in. Sure enough my buddy on the spotting scope gave me a thumbs up first round of the day, then watched seven more fly into a 16 inch group. we both did that routine a few more times
best damn day of my life.
In her younger years when she had a hot new barrel and a few less wrinkles she might have been able to do that at 600 yards or more. They're great rifles.
reguards,
Colt T
best damn day of my life.In her younger years when she had a hot new barrel and a few less wrinkles she might have been able to do that at 600 yards or more. They're great rifles.
reguards,
Colt T
FLNT4EVR
Member
I had mine out to the range yesterday and after re sighting the rifle,I put 8 in a 12inch bull at 200yds.I was quite happy with that.
Maverick223
Member
Thanks Ben, that is exactly what I meant. The terminal range of a .30-06 is roughly 3.5mi. at a 32 degree angle, depending upon dozens of factors. Been away for a while, 'puter needed reformatting.benEzra said:
GarandMan94
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Personal Best
Well using iron sights with surplus M2 AP ammo in the prone position using sandbags I have gotten 6 inch groupings at 900 yards (0.551 Miles).
when using an M1D mount with an optic set to X24 magnification and long range match ammo in the prone position using sand bags and spotter support I've hit targets at 2200 Yards (1.25 Miles)
all targets were 30 inch bulls eye splatter burst targets
Well using iron sights with surplus M2 AP ammo in the prone position using sandbags I have gotten 6 inch groupings at 900 yards (0.551 Miles).
when using an M1D mount with an optic set to X24 magnification and long range match ammo in the prone position using sand bags and spotter support I've hit targets at 2200 Yards (1.25 Miles)
all targets were 30 inch bulls eye splatter burst targets
Vern Humphrey
Member
When I was in training, and later as a member of a battalion rifle team, we shot the M1 and M14 at 600 yards, 20 rounds slow fire prone. It was common to "clean" the target at that range.
Welding Rod
Member
Big part of the equation for making the same shot twice is the hand guard fit. If they don't have a tiny bit of fore-aft clearance the shots go all over the place as the barrel warms up.
In my experience a Garand with proper hand guard fit and shooting Greek surplus ammo is about 2 MOA. Hornady Match Garand ammo is very consistent if you want be sure of best results.
In my experience a Garand with proper hand guard fit and shooting Greek surplus ammo is about 2 MOA. Hornady Match Garand ammo is very consistent if you want be sure of best results.
Flatbush Harry
Member
US Army standard = 500 yards, use in prone service rifle matches = 600 yards.
The practical problem is the inherent accuracy of the M1 Garand. Four MOA was the acceptance standard...hence, @ 500 yards, we could expect a ~20" group as acceptable.
Harry
The practical problem is the inherent accuracy of the M1 Garand. Four MOA was the acceptance standard...hence, @ 500 yards, we could expect a ~20" group as acceptable.
Harry
Sunray
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Ya'll notice the date of the OP?
Nature Boy
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According to Wikipedia
Devonai
Member
It's the FNG's fault!
(p.s. welcome to The High Road GarandMan94!)
chris in va
Member
Yeah, nice necro thread.
But anyway I can regularly hit an 8" gong at the range limit of 350 yards, once I dial in the rear sight. Compared to my 5.56 CZ, it really whacks that thing.
lysanderxiii
Member
M2 Ball will be effective at causing casualties out to at least 4000 yards.
I wouldn't be surprised if at some point during the M1's career it was not used to deliver suppressive fire at 1 to 2 klicks, and I also wouln't be surprised if someone was killed by suppressive fire....
I wouldn't be surprised if at some point during the M1's career it was not used to deliver suppressive fire at 1 to 2 klicks, and I also wouln't be surprised if someone was killed by suppressive fire....
I've hit with mine at 500 (and I'm an Army grunt, don't know what those Jarheads keep bragging about )
Doesn't ever need to be a theoretical Q with any gun. Decide what size target you want to hit. For a "man" let's say an 18" circle since we are about 18" wide. Shoot your rifle and ammo on a calm day from a solid rest at 300. Measure the group size (5 minimum, 10 better) or shoot a few 5 rd groups to get an average.
Now, you have pretty solid confirmation of what that rifle/ammo can do, so do the math to see what range still keeps all rds in that target size based on the rifle's accuracy potential. If you got 9" group avg at 300, then 600 is your max.
If you miss at 600 with same ammo, it is most likely due to shooter, unstable rest, poor range estimation, bad wind call or any combo of the above.
)Doesn't ever need to be a theoretical Q with any gun. Decide what size target you want to hit. For a "man" let's say an 18" circle since we are about 18" wide. Shoot your rifle and ammo on a calm day from a solid rest at 300. Measure the group size (5 minimum, 10 better) or shoot a few 5 rd groups to get an average.
Now, you have pretty solid confirmation of what that rifle/ammo can do, so do the math to see what range still keeps all rds in that target size based on the rifle's accuracy potential. If you got 9" group avg at 300, then 600 is your max.
If you miss at 600 with same ammo, it is most likely due to shooter, unstable rest, poor range estimation, bad wind call or any combo of the above.
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Are you saying that you can't see a man sized target in the field beyond 600yards or that your sights will completely cover a man sized target beyond 600 yards? I pick out people in the field with the naked eye way beyond 600 yards all the time. In open country more like 3 or 4 miles away.
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As far as the old Garand goes. I've hit man sized rocks with one at 1100 yards. Not on the first pull of the trigger but with a few rounds I can usually walk one onto target. In any case you would be headed for cover if you had any sense, if a competent man was shooting at you at that range with an M1.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
Prone position using the sling my best groups were in the 500 yard / meter range that I was comfortable with. The rifle could likely do better but I was comfortable in those ranges.
Ron
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