Range Rage

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Gee, did I say that they did need to be a certain age. Go back and read my first post.


It absolutely amazes me that people post without even knowing what they are talking about. I never once said it's always kids and that adults don't do such things. You should stop assuming things.
Someone want to go through and highlight and quote every time he did in fact say this? I'm on my phone and cannot multi-quote.

Oh wait, never mind. He completely contradicts himself again with his reply to me.

And yet there's another thread on Surveillance For Ranges going on right now further proving my point. Count how many times the words "vandalism" is followed by "good ol boys".

What was that about not liking "facts" again?
 
Someone want to go through and highlight and quote every time he did in fact say this? I'm on my phone and cannot multi-quote.

Oh wait, never mind. He completely contradicts himself again with his reply to me.

And yet there's another thread on Surveillance For Ranges going on right now further proving my point. Count how many times the words "vandalism" is followed by "good ol boys".

What was that about not liking "facts" again?


Why don't you go quote it? It seems like you are the person with the problem, not everyone else. I have plainly said in my posts that older people commit such acts, apparently you still haven't grasped percentages.

You can post your childish comments and arguments all say long but it doesn't change the fact that MY CLUB has been vandalized by people under 21 and in done cases under 18 almost in almost every single occurs occurrence. I really don't care if you like that or not, it's fact.
 
Someone want to go through and highlight and quote every time he did in fact say this? I'm on my phone and cannot multi-quote.

Oh wait, never mind. He completely contradicts himself again with his reply to me.
?


Ok, here you go, I went ahead and did it for you. You claim I said that all vandalism is committed by kids. You claim that I contradict myself. Here is every one of my posts, save the last one directly above, from this thread:


I hate to say this because I'm not that old of a guy but that is 90% of the problem in my area. I belong to a private club with a gated drive. All members have keys. At least once a year we end up with people sneaking in and damaging things. We catch them sometimes. The last time it was two kids with an AK. Shot up our clubhouse and the transformer on our power pole.

No, I won't. I absolutely will not blame someone ELSE for another's actions. That's s typical attitude today that is responsible for the behavior of youth. It's no ones fault BUT THEIR OWN! Get over it and your own hate for people older than you.

We didn't catch 70 year olds shooting up our clubhouse and property and i
I'm not about to blame anyone else.

Gee, did I say that they did need to be a certain age. Go back and read my first post.


It absolutely amazes me that people post without even knowing what they are talking about. I never once said it's always kids and that adults don't do such things. You should stop assuming things.

Do you think that was the only instance? Really? I'm guessing you are a member at my club? Did you expect me to list EVERY instance of vandalism??

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with percentages. Let me help you, I said 90% of the problem. That means that in every 10 occurrences one of them is an adult. It may even be an 80/20 ratio. That still doesn't change the fact that neatly every time we have people arrested for vandalism they are under the age of 21 and most of the time are not members.

Don't like the facts, too bad. Youth make poor decisions frequently and get caught frequently it's an age old pattern that isn't likely to change. Getting bent out if shape like you are won't change that.

Now, there you go. Again I will ask you, did they teach you about percentages in high school? I'm my very first post I said that it's NOT ALWAYS kids. See that whole 90/10 thing. Then I even said it may be 80/20 but that's still a large majority. Those are facts.

Now you have insulted, accused me of lying, and just generally exhibited very un-highroad behavior.

Btw, since you are casting stones about us old guys talking about kids and, I believe you said, "vidiya" games, I'm 34 years old. Not exactly part if the old guy brigade. I'm just far enough this side of my youth to realize that dad was pretty smart and that kids get in trouble.
 
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These are the local redneck, beer bellied, jacked up 4 wheeler Bubbas that are ruining our areas,

Are you saying its only "local redneck, beer bellied, jacked up 4 wheeler Bubbas that are ruining these areas?":fire::cuss::fire:

It's their parents too!:neener:
 
Cheese and crackers man!

My qualm is with you attempting to place the majority of the blame squarely on the shoulders of the youth. You provided your experience and I provided mine. You were speaking locally where I was speaking as a whole. Then OTHER commenters provided THEIR experiences which show your statistics to be flawed. It may be YOUR personal perceived notion that younger shooters are responsible for reckless behavior beyond YOUR personal little world, but as a whole in the shooting community, this is not the case. Other commenters have supported this and I have cited another thread that shows the same. Unless you have any nationally recognized figures to back up your claim, the majority of people positing shows that this is not the case.

Don't get me started on the behavior exhibited by you in this thread. Your hypocrisy on the matter lends no credence in your accusation against me.

As to not have this thread locked, I ask that you continue any further issues you have with me in a PM. Where they will be promptly ignored.
 
Cheese and crackers man!

My qualm is with you attempting to place the majority of the blame squarely on the shoulders of the youth. You provided your experience and I provided mine. You were speaking locally where I was speaking as a whole. Then OTHER commenters provided THEIR experiences which show your statistics to be flawed. It may be YOUR personal perceived notion that younger shooters are responsible for reckless behavior beyond YOUR personal little world, but as a wholein the shooting community, this is not the case. Other commenters have supported this and I have cited another thread that shows the same. Unless you have any nationally recognized figures to back up your claim, the majority of people positing shows that this is not the case.

Don't get me started on the behavior exhibited by you in this thread. Your hypocrisy on the matter lends no credence in your accusation against me.

As to not have this thread locked, I ask that you continue any further issues you have with me in a PM. Where they will be promptly ignored.



You really believe that you know the trends of vandalism nationwide? You have the knowledge to speak on this issue? You have. Studied it at length?

Sorry but you don't get to come into a thread call people names and say that their REAL LIFE EXPERIENCES font matter because of your opinion. It seems to me that we are seeing the attitudes of the youth today in your very posts.
 
I was going for some comic relief to break up the argument. I guess it didnt work.
 
You really believe that you know the trends of vandalism nationwide? You have the knowledge to speak on this issue? You have. Studied it at length?

Sorry but you don't get to come into a thread call people names and say that their REAL LIFE EXPERIENCES font matter because of your opinion. It seems to me that we are seeing the attitudes of the youth today in your very posts.
Where did I call you names? Attacking a person and claiming they said something that never occurred does not help defend your position in a debate.
I also never stated my age, I just defended a position I know to be true. I'm actually your age. So what does that say about your preconceived notions and bias?

And if I was truly indignant as you claim, does that hurt or help my position? Does it nullify my points, or just prove that it is not in fact the "attitudes of youth today", but rather older shooters?
Check your bias. I'm done with this thread.
 
Something tells me this thread is heading toward moderator intervention and a lock. Seriously guys. C'mon.
 
Quick story: My wife and I were at Disney World with our son and a couple that we had become friends with. We were going through a gift shop and our friends noticed that somebody had left an ipod touch on a shelf. It had a childish case so I would guess that some kid had gotten it for christmas and left it there on accident. They took it and bragged to us about the free ipod they got. I told them to take it to lost and found so the owner could get it back and they said no. Classless trash. They would steal from a child because the opportunity presented itself. We are not friends with them anymore, for that and may other reasons.

The point is that some people just don't have class. They do not respect anything and or anybody. It's their fault, and the fault of whoever raised them. I've seen classless people who are white, black, young, old, rich and poor. Unfortunately, you can't completely void them, especially if you are going to public places.
 
Quick story: My wife and I were at Disney World with our son and a couple that we had become friends with. We were going through a gift shop and our friends noticed that somebody had left an ipod touch on a shelf. It had a childish case so I would guess that some kid had gotten it for christmas and left it there on accident. They took it and bragged to us about the free ipod they got. I told them to take it to lost and found so the owner could get it back and they said no. Classless trash. They would steal from a child because the opportunity presented itself. We are not friends with them anymore, for that and may other reasons.



The point is that some people just don't have class. They do not respect anything and or anybody. It's their fault, and the fault of whoever raised them. I've seen classless people who are white, black, young, old, rich and poor. Unfortunately, you can't completely void them, especially if you are going to public places.


That is pretty trashy. I couldn't enjoy something like that knowing that some kid was out if their iPod.
 
I think it is a common thing for many folks to assume that it is the youth that does so much of the vandalism, and there is some reasoning to it. The natural rebelliousness of youth, the time to get into mischief and just the ignorance of youth itself. Problem is, these kids learned the lack of respect of other folks property from their parents or other adult role models, either directly or indirectly. From my own experience, much of the littering, the leaving of trash behind and the reckless behavior at gun ranges is done by folks mature enough to know better. They just don't care. This is passed down to their kids in a never ending circle.

My point is, one cannot automatically assume it is kids. Case in point. My brother lives next door to a County LEO. Few years back the cop comes over and tells my brother that kids have been smashing the jack-o-lanterns on his front porch. He didn't come right out and accuse my brothers sons and their friends, but he sure implied it. Few days later the cop comes over and take my brother to look at the new batch of smashed pumpkins on the porch and this times states that if it wasn't his sons, odds are they knew who it was and wanted to question them. So in front of my brother the County Cop questions my brother's two oldest high school age boys. Of course the denied everything and claimed they didn't know who it was that did do it. Coupla days later the Cop comes over and apologizes to my brother and his boys. Seems he caught the culprits. Apparently the local deer herd had a taste for pumpkins and after staking out the porch watching for the kids to come back, he witnessed several deer smashing the third batch of pumpkins after rolling them off the porch. Maybe they were teenage deer..........;)
 
I think it is a common thing for many folks to assume that it is the youth that does so much of the vandalism, and there is some reasoning to it. The natural rebelliousness of youth, the time to get into mischief and just the ignorance of youth itself. Problem is, these kids learned the lack of respect of other folks property from their parents or other adult role models, either directly or indirectly. From my own experience, much of the littering, the leaving of trash behind and the reckless behavior at gun ranges is done by folks mature enough to know better. They just don't care. This is passed down to their kids in a never ending circle.



My point is, one cannot automatically assume it is kids. Case in point. My brother lives next door to a County LEO. Few years back the cop comes over and tells my brother that kids have been smashing the jack-o-lanterns on his front porch. He didn't come right out and accuse my brothers sons and their friends, but he sure implied it. Few days later the cop comes over and take my brother to look at the new batch of smashed pumpkins on the porch and this times states that if it wasn't his sons, odds are they knew who it was and wanted to question them. So in front of my brother the County Cop questions my brother's two oldest high school age boys. Of course the denied everything and claimed they didn't know who it was that did do it. Coupla days later the Cop comes over and apologizes to my brother and his boys. Seems he caught the culprits. Apparently the local deer herd had a taste for pumpkins and after staking out the porch watching for the kids to come back, he witnessed several deer smashing the third batch of pumpkins after rolling them off the porch. Maybe they were teenage deer..........;)


That's a funny story!
 
My range installed cameras and caught two people committing unsafe or destructive acts.
 
My experience has shown me that most instances of vandalism and mischief come from kids. To me that's anybody under 30. I did say most not all. This turned into thread rage around here not just a simple subject or debate. What a shame. Great pumpkin story!
 
My experience has shown me that most instances of vandalism and mischief come from kids. To me that's anybody under 30. I did say most not all. This turned into thread rage around here not just a simple subject or debate. What a shame. Great pumpkin story!


Better watch it you just subjected yourself to the wrath of the youth.
 
I hear ya. I only based this on my own personal experience. We can't have a portable toilet at our range without worrying if its gonna get shot up with somebody in it. After thinking on it I understand why the management won't put one in. Go figure. Ppl can be stupid at any age but chances are its gonna be a kid or a bubba. Hate to say it but I hate it. For kids defined reference to my prior post. Just sayin
 
The sad thing is, that a lot of these public places have to cater to the lowest denominator. Vandalism is one of those things that's just bound to occur due to the odds. Out of 1000's of visitors, you're bound to find an ******* in the bunch somewhere. Still, quite unfortunate. I'm a younger shooter and hate seeing any land filled with garbage, whether it be on the side of the road or downrange.
 
I hear ya. I only based this on my own personal experience. We can't have a portable toilet at our range without worrying if its gonna get shot up with somebody in it. After thinking on it I understand why the management won't put one in. Go figure. Ppl can be stupid at any age but chances are its gonna be a kid or a bubba. Hate to say it but I hate it. For kids defined reference to my prior post. Just sayin


Yeah, that's usually the demographic in my area too. I have no doubt that in some areas the demographics if vandals vary. In my area there are no gangs or any of that trash so kids drink and break stuff, lol.
 
Yrs back I had a summe job with lots of road work. Often 200+ miles a day cleaning up issues locals messed up. I worked MN, ND, SD. I found a number of ranges that I could drop into for a hr and practice. Most had a wood box with lock to stick couple bucks in.

Not a yr later many had locked gates, signs, members only.... A few slobs ruin it for everyone.

A indoor range I was member of was asked to let local PD use it. We agreed (of course) and set up ROs but they said no. They couldn't allow public to view the intensive training... Sadly we still gave permission. We cleaned it up, did some painting, made things look nice.

I droped by next evening (every member had key, could shoot day/night) It was disaster. I called the club pres and he came down. Pillars downrange had multiple bullet strikes (remember just painted) light were shot out. (both on floor and above) Target turners his (2' above TOP of target hanger) and bullet strikes on walls..... So its not always kids who are unsupervised.

BTW it was decided at meeting if any of us saw another member being held hostage to NOT call 911 in that city. It would be safer... This was in 80s and I really wish I had a phone to documet the damages. Worse then 6 yrs of private/public shooting easy.
 
I (and some friends) actually shot up a TV at a range in the 90's for a public access TV show.

It was one of those massive ones with the cabinets.

Wow, when's the last time you saw one of those?

Anyway, the difference is this was a "private hunting club" (bar) that also had a range and I had their permission to shoot up anything I wanted so long as I cleaned up after, which we did.

Christ, I'm getting old - there are people of drinking age who've never seen one of those TV's...
 
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You're getting old? Heck, I have one of those in our spare bedroom. Bought it in 1988 and it still works.

I've been meaning to replace it with a whizz bang flat screen, just never seem to get around to it.

I promise I won't shoot it up at a range. LOL
 
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