RAR 7.62X39 vs 77/357

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My favorite scope is a 3x9x40. It offers enough magnification for my poor eyes to be useful at ranges longer than I shoot. On 3X they have more than adequate field of view for moving deer at very short ranges. Because its the most common scope size it also means you can get very good glass for the money spent. I don't see the utility of a 4X since they are generally the same size and cost as a 3-9x40. I also can't see the need for less magnification than 3X. I've never wanted to turn down the scope any more than that while hunting.
You and a lot of other people but popularity isn't always a good indication. I know people who've never shot a deer over 100yds but hunt with a 4-12x. One case easily have too much magnification but too little is easier to handle.

The idea that a popular magnification range means you get better glass for your money makes no sense whatsoever.

A fixed 4x is usually measurably shorter, lighter and less complicated. Actually, you get better glass for your money with a fixed than you do a variable.

Perception is a funny thing.
 
You and a lot of other people but popularity isn't always a good indication. I know people who've never shot a deer over 100yds but hunt with a 4-12x. One case easily have too much magnification but too little is easier to handle.

The idea that a popular magnification range means you get better glass for your money makes no sense whatsoever.

A fixed 4x is usually measurably shorter, lighter and less complicated. Actually, you get better glass for your money with a fixed than you do a variable.

Perception is a funny thing.

Go on midway USA's sight and look at what options are currently available in 4x fixed power scopes. There is nothing there that is cheaper, has better field of view, and better glass than a leupold VX1 or Nikon prostaff 3-9x40.
 
One of the reasons I prefer a variable is that it offers me something to be able to accurately size up my game without using binoculars. I hunt in thick cover so there is no time to fumble around with binoculars when I may only have 10 seconds to see my game. I may not be able to see the difference between a 1-1/2 old doe and a 3-1/2 doe at 125 yards with a 4x. But with a quick turn up to 9 I can measure noses and ears and count points on bucks. I generally hunt at 3X but many times I've dialed up just to get a better idea of what I'm looking at first. Just my .02
 
The idea that a popular magnification range means you get better glass for your money makes no sense whatsoever.


Perception is a funny thing.

It’s not perception it’s REALITY

A good analogy would be building a Chevy 350 vs a 360 AMC

Because one is so much more common and parts are sold in such high volume dollar for dollar spent you get better stuff for a 350

Same goes for a 3x9 vs a 4x to get comparative optics you are going to spend a lot more money.

Fixed scopes serve no practical purpose nowadays beyond looking cooler on an old rifle. If you want compactness a 2x7x33 is still an extremely common size that is small and dollar for dollar will always have better glass than the same priced 4x
 
Popularity is irrelevant, take pop music for example. For whatever reason the 3-9x is the most popular and those who can't think for themselves will be well served with one. Maybe you don't have any use for anything else but I wouldn't be making such broad sweeping generalizations and your engine analogy falls flat on its face.

In reality, as I said before, one does not NEED a 3-9x unless they're hunting open country. Fact is, unless you're shooting across bean fields, a 1-4x is plenty for the eastern woodlands. That is my preference but since this is about fixed 4x scopes, let's make it about fixed 4x scopes. I don't know what you base your statements on but far as I can tell, it's always held true that with a less complicated fixed power scope, you get better durability, less weight, shorter length and the same glass for less money. Or better glass for the same money. For example:

Leupold FXI 4x is $200, 7.5oz and 9" long.
Leupold FXII 4x is $300, 9oz and 10.5" long.
Leupold VXI 3-9x is $250, 11oz and 12.5" long.
Leupold VXII 3-9x is $350, 11oz and 12.5" long.
Leupold VXIII 3.5-10x is $400, 12.5oz and 12.5" long.

If you don't need or want a big variable for a lightweight rifle that will never be used past 300yds, a fixed 4x is an excellent choice. It's shorter, lighter and less expensive and would be right at home on the RAR 7.62x39. You could easily seek out one of the older Burris compact 4x scopes, those are even shorter and lighter. Looking cool doesn't have a damned thing to do with it. It's all about choosing the right tool for the job. :confused:

Wanna 1-4x or 1.5-5x? Cost and glass are the same as a comparable 3-9x but they're more compact and several ounces lighter.
 
How do you figure a scope with the ability to be set to the SAME magnification the “wrong tool for the job”?

I guess if you were a miserable fudd who only shoots a box of ammunition a year who zeroed his rifle in 1977 and has never pulled the trigger when the muzzle wasn’t pointed at something covered in hair a 4x would keep you happy.

But some of us like to hunt AND care about how a rifle shoots on the range. As to “less complicated” I buy quality optics that don’t fail. I guess if you want to order whatever BSncVorStar that cheaper than dirt has on sale then a simple scope may be more reliable.

A Ruger American is an extremely lightweight rifle. There’s no 3x9x40 scope made that would make one even slightly cumbersome to carry.

And on price I can absolutely pay $200 for a variable scope that will have better glass and optical coatings than the FX leupold. The Pro Staff comes to mind as does Sightron and even a Zeiss isn’t much more than that FX
 
Leupold FXI 4x is $200, 7.5oz and 9" long.
Leupold FXII 4x is $300, 9oz and 10.5" long.
Leupold VXI 3-9x is $250, 11oz and 12.5" long.
Leupold VXII 3-9x is $350, 11oz and 12.5" long.
Leupold VXIII 3.5-10x is $400, 12.5oz and 12.5" long.

An FX1 is a rimfire scope so that is irrelevant. An FX2 is $300 at midway and the field of view is listed at 24' at 100 yards. A VX1 3-9x40 is $175 on optics planet and the field of view is 34.6' at 100 yards. I'm sorry but on the basis of field of view alone a 3-9x40 is a much more sensible choice for woods hunting. I can't argue about the 2 oz difference in weight. I don't think the length has any relevance to me. I've no interest in any less power than 2-3x so the 1-4's just don't do anything for me. Most 2-7x32's don't have much better field of views than 3-9's so I don't really like them. My choice of scope is not due to stupidity or ignorance or following trends, it's from a good bit of research and looking through and hunting with a bunch of scopes to find what's right for me. I'm glad your happy with your choices too.
 
Every time I pick up my 7.62x39 with its 2-7x33 Leupy, I always wonder why I have 3-9x40's on my other guns.

I would like to get one of them for my 1895 guide gun. I had a 2-7x35 burris for awhile that I liked and still have a 2-7x32 mueller. I replaced the burris with a 3-9. Different strokes.
 
How do you figure a scope with the ability to be set to the SAME magnification the “wrong tool for the job”?

I guess if you were a miserable fudd who only shoots a box of ammunition a year who zeroed his rifle in 1977 and has never pulled the trigger when the muzzle wasn’t pointed at something covered in hair a 4x would keep you happy.

But some of us like to hunt AND care about how a rifle shoots on the range. As to “less complicated” I buy quality optics that don’t fail. I guess if you want to order whatever BSncVorStar that cheaper than dirt has on sale then a simple scope may be more reliable.

A Ruger American is an extremely lightweight rifle. There’s no 3x9x40 scope made that would make one even slightly cumbersome to carry.

And on price I can absolutely pay $200 for a variable scope that will have better glass and optical coatings than the FX leupold. The Pro Staff comes to mind as does Sightron and even a Zeiss isn’t much more than that FX
Wow, that's a bit of a triggered response, must've touched a nerve somewhere. Like I said, if you don't need a 3-9x, then it is the wrong tool for the job. Sure, plenty of folks use them but again, that's irrelevant. You've clearly convinced yourself that you need a 3-9x so enjoy yourself. Regardless of your seemingly narrow-minded opinion, a hell of a lot of hunting can easily be done with a 4x. Personally, I think people are just afraid of not having enough when having too much is much more likely and much more difficult to deal with.

Generalizations and stereotypes are unproductive and usually inaccurate. IMHO, a "miserable fudd" is more likely to have a Walmart Special 3-9x than anything. That's not a productive comment either.

Now we get down to brass tacks. You really like the 3-9x because you can see your targets better at the range. A hunting rifle scope should be chosen for hunting, not range use. I'm going to be blunt, if you can't shoot sub-MOA at 100yds with a sub-MOA rifle wearing a 4x scope, you're doing something wrong. Sounds like your 3-9x is more of a crutch, as it is for many.

Newsflash, all optics fail, regardless of quality or brand. Better optics are just less likely to. A fixed scope is even less likely because there is less to fail.

Disagree entirely. It is VERY easy to over-scope a rifle but if you're already convinced that yours is the onliest-best choice, then I guess that point is lost on you.

I used Leupold as an example because it's easier to compare them.....to each other. That should've been obvious.


An FX1 is a rimfire scope so that is irrelevant. An FX2 is $300 at midway and the field of view is listed at 24' at 100 yards. A VX1 3-9x40 is $175 on optics planet and the field of view is 34.6' at 100 yards. I'm sorry but on the basis of field of view alone a 3-9x40 is a much more sensible choice for woods hunting. I can't argue about the 2 oz difference in weight. I don't think the length has any relevance to me. I've no interest in any less power than 2-3x so the 1-4's just don't do anything for me. Most 2-7x32's don't have much better field of views than 3-9's so I don't really like them. My choice of scope is not due to stupidity or ignorance or following trends, it's from a good bit of research and looking through and hunting with a bunch of scopes to find what's right for me. I'm glad your happy with your choices too.
The fact that the FX1 is a rimfire scope is entirely irrelevant. It's not made to lesser standards than centerfire scopes, it's just set parallax free at 50yds (or 75?). It would be right at home on a lightweight centerfire.

If FOV is your most important criteria then you should really love a 1-4x, with double the FOV of a 3-9x. Curious though, you think a 3-9x is so much better than a 4x with 10' broader FOV but disregard the 2-7x which also has a 10' broader FOV than a 3-9x. I guess people like what they like and they don't like to be challenged on it.
 
The fact that the FX1 is a rimfire scope is entirely irrelevant. It's not made to lesser standards than centerfire scopes, it's just set parallax free at 50yds (or 75?). It would be right at home on a lightweight centerfire.

If FOV is your most important criteria then you should really love a 1-4x, with double the FOV of a 3-9x. Curious though, you think a 3-9x is so much better than a 4x with 10' broader FOV but disregard the 2-7x which also has a 10' broader FOV than a 3-9x. I guess people like what they like and they don't like to be challenged on it.

I'm fine with people challenging my opinions I just don't like people telling me my opinions are stupid. FOV is one of my most important considerations for a hunting scope. The magnification number is less important to me. I find about 30-40 feet at 100 is about what I like. The reason I don't like the 2-7's I've had and looked through as much as my 3-9's is that they generally have a smaller pupil size so even when set at a magnification to give the same FOV the image appears smaller and I can't see as much detail. Kind of like looking at the same image on a 27 inch vs 36 inch TV if that makes sense. I would like to get another one for my marlin as a more compact scope will be able to be mounted lower on that. And yes I could just use a 1-4 and turn it up but I like the extra magnification for shooting in the off season. I don't have any guns that I only use as hunting rifles. I shoot them all in the off season as well. I brought 6 guns hunting this year and there is only so many deer I can shoot.
 
Pretty sure I never said anyone was stupid but a lot of people do just slap a 3-9x on their rifle because it's the most popular.

The Leupold 2-7x has an exit pupil of 13-5mm, the VXI 3-9x is 13.3-4.4mm. The low power variables are even larger.
 
Your right, exit pupil is not the right term for what I was trying to describe with the image appearing smaller. The television size analogy is the only thing I can think of to describe it.

Anyway let us know how the 7.62x39 RAR shoots. I've been considering getting one.
 
Wow, that's a bit of a triggered response, must've touched a nerve somewhere. Like I said, if you don't need a 3-9x, then it is the wrong tool for the job. Sure, plenty of folks use them but again, that's irrelevant. You've clearly convinced yourself that you need a 3-9x so enjoy yourself. Regardless of your seemingly narrow-minded opinion, a hell of a lot of hunting can easily be done with a 4x. Personally, I think people are just afraid of not having enough when having too much is much more likely and much more difficult to deal with.

Generalizations and stereotypes are unproductive and usually inaccurate. IMHO, a "miserable fudd" is more likely to have a Walmart Special 3-9x than anything. That's not a productive comment either.

Now we get down to brass tacks. You really like the 3-9x because you can see your targets better at the range. A hunting rifle scope should be chosen for hunting, not range use. I'm going to be blunt, if you can't shoot sub-MOA at 100yds with a sub-MOA rifle wearing a 4x scope, you're doing something wrong. Sounds like your 3-9x is more of a crutch, as it is for many.

Newsflash, all optics fail, regardless of quality or brand. Better optics are just less likely to. A fixed scope is even less likely because there is less to fail.

Disagree entirely. It is VERY easy to over-scope a rifle but if you're already convinced that yours is the onliest-best choice, then I guess that point is lost on you.

I used Leupold as an example because it's easier to compare them.....to each other. That should've been obvious.



The fact that the FX1 is a rimfire scope is entirely irrelevant. It's not made to lesser standards than centerfire scopes, it's just set parallax free at 50yds (or 75?). It would be right at home on a lightweight centerfire.

If FOV is your most important criteria then you should really love a 1-4x, with double the FOV of a 3-9x. Curious though, you think a 3-9x is so much better than a 4x with 10' broader FOV but disregard the 2-7x which also has a 10' broader FOV than a 3-9x. I guess people like what they like and they don't like to be challenged on it.

Speaking of triggered responses...
 
I'd get a Howa Mini in .223. and put a cheap 4X scope on it. 10 rd. detachable mag and a cheap 300 yd cartridge to boot. Why limit yourself with 7.62 x 39 or 357?

I'm not a fan of the Ruger 77/357. Had one.
 
I'm not a fan of the Ruger 77/357. Had one.
I like the concept but have yet to see one that shoots worth a poot. With less than half the capacity of a levergun, it ought to at least outshoot one. Meanwhile, I have a good many levers that will do better than 2" at 100yds. I do like that the 77/44 has a 1-20" twist but the magazine limits it to a 320gr WFN.
 
People buy scopes for different applications. Way back in the last century when scopes were just becoming popular 4X was considered plenty of magnification for hunting east of the Missisippi. 6X was preferred in the Rocky Mtn. states as ranges were longer.

Now everyone wants a 3-9. I have both a 2-7 and 3-9 VX3 Leupold scope on different rifles. I also have a 1.5-4. The 1.5-4 has a high FOV of 24'. The problem with the higher power scopes is you loose FOV and eye relief as the power increases. That's the trade off. 3-9 is probably the most popular scope out there but very few people even consider eye relief and FOV when buying a scope. Hunters want magnification when they would be better served with more FOV and eye relief. I'm finding that 6X is all I really need for 1 moa out to 200 yds. Like someone said, if you need more you're doing something wrong.

Every hunter I ever hunted with in the west used binoculars to find and ID the game. It gets mighty tiring looking thru a rifle scope all day and you miss a lot you would be seeing with a pair of binoculars.

For something like a 7.62 x 39 2-7 is more than enough scope. If you shoot enough you will be dialing down those high powered variables to around 4X at 100 and 6X at 200 yds. Better FOV and eye relief there. That's really the sweet spot at those ranges.
 
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I bought an old J.C. Higgins Model 50 in 30-06 at the gun show. The rifle sold at Sears back in the 1950s with a FN Mauser action and a chrome lined bore I'm told. So just in keeping with the old school theme I put a 4X Weaver on it. And it is the sharpest, cleanest sight picture of any scope I've ever looked through.

Model 50 with Weaver.jpg
 
I bought an old J.C. Higgins Model 50 in 30-06 at the gun show. The rifle sold at Sears back in the 1950s with a FN Mauser action and a chrome lined bore I'm told. So just in keeping with the old school theme I put a 4X Weaver on it. And it is the sharpest, cleanest sight picture of any scope I've ever looked through.

View attachment 775095
Those new Weaver K4's and K6's are no joke. Extremely lightweight and as you say, crisp and bright. I had a K-6 on a Ruger 77 for a while and I often wonder why I sold it.
 
An x39 rifle is a short range gun, you don't need a whole lot of scope.
Agreed, I have a "cheap" (~$250) Primary Arms fixed power 5X on my CMMG 7.62x39 Mutant and hit about 80% on an 8" steel plate at 400 yards with Wolf steel cased ammo when the wind is not too bad.

There is little doubt in my mind you get the best bang/buck with 3-9X scopes, today they are what the fixed 4X scopes were when I was a kid. Look at the mainstream offerings from Vortex, Nikon, etc. can often find them on sale for ~$120 or a bit less.

Set at 3X they are great for walking around and taking quick shots from field positions, set at 9X they are great for zeroing when shooting off a bench. They are very popular for a good reason, the popularity and resulting large production volume make them a generally good, safe, buy.

The only $50 scopes I've gotten any useful life out of were used on a .22lr.
 
this Remington 725 in 3006 with a 2.5x weaver has been killing critters since the mid 50,s, some close to 300 yards. and I think I could have killed 85-90 precent of the over 200 deer I have taken in 64 years of hunting, including this year. eastbank.
 

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