Re-loading calculator ... Is there such a thing?

[kimberkid]

Is there a calculator / app that would let me plug in my bullet/weight , case & powder and get a minimum & maximum powder charge?

Recently I built an AR in 6.5 Creedmoor and I just happened to have a couple pounds of Varget which worked very well ... thing is I have 12-13 pounds of Accurate / Data 2200 and 5-6 pounds of Accurate 2230 that I used at one time but don't anymore ... I've got data for several different caliber's from the 22 Hornet throuh the 45/70 Government ... So it seems there should be a load in there that will work for my Creedmoor!

As expensive as powders have gotten I'd like to get these powders used up before they are only good for fertilizer

... any help out there?

 

[jmorris]

Quickload is what you are after.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?55697-Quickload-thread

 

[macgrumpy]

I'll second a recommendation for QuickLoad, I've used it for years and once you learn how to fine tune it, it becomes very accurate at predicting load performance.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Quicksand does what you are looking to do BUT, I am not sure the program includes data for Accurate Data Powders. If the powder isn't listed I don't think you can get load data from the program.

I suggest you write Accurate and ask them for 6.5 Creedmoor data using Data 2200 powder. They are usually very helpful and if it exists they will provide it to you.

 

[kimberkid]

There is a number on the container for the tech dept at Accurate, think I'll give them a call tomorrow.

Quick load is basically what I'm talking about (and I wasn't aware of the site) but it doesn't include the powders I'm looking for.

I have a tendency to over simplify things ... I'm talking about a program like that but more in depth. One that you could plug in known variables like case/caliber, pressures and velocities of known loads and extract at least a starting load for un-published powders / caliber's.

For the Data 2200 powder I have a sheet that has some load data:

For the 30-30 Win / 110 grain bullet; 34 grains = 2776 fps @ 44700psi
For the 6.5 TCU / 120 grain bullet; 23 grains = 2102 fps @ 48500 psi
For the 7.62x39 / 123 grain bullet; 29.5 grains = 2131 fps @ 47000 cup
For the 308 Win / 125 grain bullet; 43 grains = 3026 fps @ 45000 cup

For anyone that doesn't know, the parent case is the 308 win, but it's closer to the 243 (which is a 6mm pill), but I don't have any 243 data and the 6mm data is for a smaller case and only a 100 grain pill.

The 6.5 Creedmoor case capacity (to the bottom of the neck) is right at 50 grains of Data 2200 ... It just seems that with info like this, that there is a safe load here using this powder and there should be a program or calculator that could at least tell me where to start working up a load safely.

 

[macgrumpy]

A quote from Western Powders

Data Powder 2200

Is the Accurate 2200 the same as the “Data 2200” that was for sale about 10 or 12 years ago?

Yes it is. The current Accurate 2200 is a direct copy of the military surplus Accurate Data Powder 2200.

And yes, the current version of QuickLoad does include data for Accurate 2200 powder.

 

[macgrumpy]

What bullet are you going to use?
What's your case capacity in water (up to the mouth of the case) weight- not powder weight?
What's your Trim To Length?
What's your barrel length?
What max pressure are you looking at?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

A quote from Western Powders



And yes, the current version of QuickLoad does include data for Accurate 2200 powder.

From what i know, Accurate 2200 powder is not the same as Accurate Data 2200 powder. Of course that doesn't make it true just because I never read they are exactly the same.

Think of it as similar to H335 and WC844.

 

[kimberkid]

What bullet are you going to use?
What's your case capacity in water (up to the mouth of the case) weight- not powder weight?
What's your Trim To Length?
What's your barrel length?
What max pressure are you looking at?

123 grain Hornady A-Max bullet
Case capacity in water - 51.2 grains
Trim to length - 1.923
Barrel length - 22"

Max pressure - where do I find that? It's a JP barrel, I looked on the site but all I found were external spec's:

Chamber: 6.5 Creedmoor
Length: 22"
Gas System: Extra long
Twist: 1:8 button rifled
Contour: .750 under hand guard/.875 in front of gas block
Diameter at Gas Block: .936
Muzzle Threads: 5/8"-24 TPI
Material: 416R Stainless

Max pressures for other powders, including the Varget that I have used are 58,900 - 61,000

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The max pressure is not specific to the barrel but to the cartridge. SAAMI sets the specs for cartridges.

 

[kimberkid]

I don't' have any way of measuring the pressures and not surprising, the velocity's in this table are in line with both the Hornady 129 grain "Superformance" ammo that I've bought and with what I've loaded using published data for the Hornady A-Max 123 grain and Varget powder.

Just from looking at other load data for this powder for other calibers and other powders that seem to have similar characteristics and similar bullet weghts, it seems like I could start at around 35-38 grains of the Data 2200 and be safe(which is about 4/5th's of case capacity) but the risk involved keeps me from trying it ... and of course I don't want to risk blowing up my gun either!

Looking the 6.5 Creedmoor on the SAAMI website this is what I've found:

​

 

[macgrumpy]

Assuming, as Winchester's rep stated, that Accurate 2200 is the same as Data/Accurate 2200 and that you are using the following specs;

123 grain Hornady A-Max bullet
Case capacity in water - 51.2 grains
Trim to length - 1.923
COAL - 2.800"
Barrel length - 22"

NOTE* I specified a COAL of 2.800" using the Hornady bullet, any other bullet will probably change your results even if you seat them at the same COAL.

QuickLoad estimates that the closest you can get to 62,000 PSI without exceeding it is with a powder charge of 35.6gr. with a muzzle velocity of approx. 2807 FPS. Due to probable variations in case capacity and lot to lot variations I'd say that I'd start at 34.5gr and work my way up watching for pressure signs on my case. If you have a chronograph you can verify if the QuickLoad estimates are accurate, if you get 2750 FPS with 34.5gr (plus or minus 30 FPS) then I'd say that you can trust the QuickLoad estimates.

 

[lckdnldd]

This may help. Among other things it has a load data function. I have used it as a reference for a few years now and like it and it is free.


https://sourceforge.net/projects/reloadersrfrnce/

 

[kimberkid]

If you have a chronograph you can verify if the QuickLoad estimates are accurate, if you get 2750 FPS with 34.5gr (plus or minus 30 FPS) then I'd say that you can trust the QuickLoad estimates.

I do have a chrony ... and I loaded up 8 rounds at 34.5 as you suggested. I'll try to get out to try it in the next few days and post my results ... Thanks for your help!

I took a look at QuickLoad thinking it would be a handy program to have although I don't have much of a need for it, but occasionally it would be fun just to run numbers.

 

[macgrumpy]

I like using QuickLoad for load development and I have it's sister program QuickTarget which does external ballistic information but it interacts with QuickLoad, it uses QuickLoad's internal ballistic data and develops the drop information for your load. Any time I change my load in any way I use QuickLoad and if I like the real world performance I use QuickTarget to create trajectory/drop information that I keep as a reference for that load and rifle combination.

 

[guns3738]

i use this website
http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp

 

[Bart B.]

I called Quickload and asked them about the accuracy of their data for internal and external ballistics calculated by their software. They said in so many words:

Quickload is best used to show about how one load will typically compare to another. Don't assume the numbers calculated will be what your stuff gets.

In no way does it tell you what the pressure, velocity and barrel time numbers will be for your set of components for a given cartridge. Velocity can be 100 fps or more off and pressure as much as 3000 to 4000 pounds off because your powder lot and primers are different as well as your barrel's internal dimensions (and how the barrel was mounted; fixed, free recoil or fired off the shoulder) compared to what was used to get Quickload's "approximations."

 

[Jim Watson]

Quickload users often talk about a circular process in which they fudge some of the parameters to force the computer to yield the observed velocity for one load. They then expect a closer prediction for the next load.
I guess they just assume the correction applies to pressure.


Handloader's Digest once had a humor piece in which the reloading club did everything by calculation and simulation. Anybody who actually shot a gun was considered hopelessly out of date.

 

[Bart B.]

Jim, does that "circular process" resemble this earlier comment about Quickload?

. . ..once you learn how to fine tune it, it becomes very accurate at predicting load performance.

Has anyone ever used a good pressure transducer system on their barrel to see if a load's average psi number was even close to what Quickload calculates?

 

[Jim Watson]

I think that his "fine tuning" is my "circular process."

I have not heard of anybody putting a Quickload load in an actual pressure gun.
Muzzle velocity and/or target come-ups are about as much as ordinary shooters can test with.

 

[kimberkid]

Handloader's Digest once had a humor piece in which the reloading club did everything by calculation and simulation. Anybody who actually shot a gun was considered hopelessly out of date.

You guys are way out of my league!

Sunday I loaded 8 rounds at 34.5 grains of the Data 2200 in my Dillon 550b and loaded everything up in the truck ... then today I went home for lunch, switched vehicles and took a bit of an extended lunch to made a quick run out to the range and set a target at 100yards. I also set up my chrony and I got these results ... I don't know which shot it didn't pick up because I fired 8 rounds, but my readout only showed 7.




Not only did the gun not blow up, but there isn't any sign of over pressure and with out a bag, for me its a decent group!

I think I'll load up a few more and maybe increase the powder another grain and see how it groups at further distances ... I've managed a 2.625" group at 435 yards with this gun and Varget and if I can come close to that with the Data 2200, I will have found a use for that powder!

.
​

 

[macgrumpy]

Hmmm, let's see if I got this right.

I have no idea who kimberkid is, we've net even talked to each other
I have no idea how he measured his case volume
I have no idea how he actually measures his case length
The powder he used, according to some of these Internet experts, isn't the same as the Accurate 2200 used in QuickLoad

And my estimated muzzle velocity is off by about 100 fps and that group looks pretty darn nice.

I'm sorry, I apologize, I guess that crappy software just doesn't work worth a crap.

 

[horsey300]

It's not a true calculator but there are TONS of published loads with the reloading assistant app in the Google store, so far they seem to be checking out in cross referencing my other books. May not be what your looking for and not quick load by any means but it has been helpful

 

[kimberkid]

Hmmm, let's see if I got this right.

I have no idea who kimberkid is, we've net even talked to each other (Ditto)
I have no idea how he measured his case volume (filled the case with water and weighed it as you recommended)
I have no idea how he actually measures his case length (measured a resized case with dial calipers)
The powder he used, according to some of these Internet experts, isn't the same as the Accurate 2200 used in QuickLoad

And my estimated muzzle velocity is off by about 100 fps and that group looks pretty darn nice.

I'm sorry, I apologize, I guess that crappy software just doesn't work worth a crap.

I really appreciate your effort!
I should consider getting a new book/program; but I'm cheap (why else would I be looking for loading info for a powder that was a limited run 15 years ago?)
I don't know why but I never even thought of looking for an app for my Iphone/Ipad ... I have a Sierra reloading book for rifle cartridges I bought back in the early 90's and a couple others I picked up at fun shows used; they list very few current common powders in them and none of the new cartridges like the 300AAC or 6.5 Creedmoor.

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