cheygriz
member
Just a level lllA vest always made me feel safe. Kinda gave me the warm fuzzies.
For normal patrol duties, a level llA was my first choice.
For normal patrol duties, a level llA was my first choice.
Real Armor
- Thread starter Jim Watson
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I tested a 45acp FMJ aginst 10g mild once. It didn't go through. I know of another guy who tested his riveted chain mail (the actual way it was made) with a 45, it didn't go through.
At the same time, my 30 carbine went right through the steel. The answer becomes, what gun and what steel.
At the same time, my 30 carbine went right through the steel. The answer becomes, what gun and what steel.
mcb
Member
I stand corrected. That said if the picture on that page is how it was tested and arrived at the 1.8 inch number is probably high. 1.8 inches of mild steel made up of multiple thinner plates (space or not) will not stopped a projectiles as well as a solid piece of the same total thickness assuming a near perpendicular hit. An angled hit on spaced plates may worked better against some projectiles (by causing the round to yaw and hit later plates at a flatter angle) but straight on against mild steel it is worse that a monolithic piece.
Spaced hardened steel does better but has to be hard enough to compromise the projectiles structural integrity to work as Spaced-Amor
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JR24
Member
Steel? Why?
Just grab a bunch of Stretch Armstrongs and a roll of duct tape.
Just grab a bunch of Stretch Armstrongs and a roll of duct tape.
IMO, it's a question of the compromises a person is willing to make. Armor is always pretty much
mobility VS protection. For my money, I'd prefer something in the way of Kevlar Long-johns.
Something which would provide general coverage against anything but head-on and point
blank shots, without hampering mobility and comfort too much.
If you were going to go the solid armor route, I'd bet on plastics, like the Star-Wars Storm-trooper
wears. But in a practical sense, who wants to wear full cover armor for any extended period of time?
This came from a post I made on another forum, but the mention of plastics made me think of ceramics.
What about transparent aluminium?
Shamelessly copied from Wikipedia:
A thing I like about this video is that it captures a 50 BMG in flight.
[video=youtube_share;RnUszxx2pYc]
image from here
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I have a target made of 1/4" mild steel that I shoot all afternoon with out any dents ( there are slightly discernible depressions) it does curl the whole sheet slightly and I lay it on the ground and give it a couple of licks with an 8 lb sledge to flatten it again. This is only non magnums. I would be very surprised if a non magnum would make it through 1/8"
cheygriz
member
I wore level llA for for the entire watch for years.
Even armor that light gets miserable after a while if the ambient temperature is over 75 degrees. By the end of the watch, you can smell your own armpits!
Even armor that light gets miserable after a while if the ambient temperature is over 75 degrees. By the end of the watch, you can smell your own armpits!
BlueHeelerFl
Member
lemaymiami
Member
Lots of fun speculating about this sort of stuff... not much fun at all if you have to wear body armor day after day , year after year.. (you get the idea...). I wore mine every working day from 1974 through 1995 and never enjoyed wearing it down here in paradise (south Florida). It's a necessity on the street - if you can put up with it... Many big men that I knew simply couldn't stand to wear it. In my early years I had to buy my own armor - and Second Chance was all that was available... In later years we were issued good quality armor - but it was still very uncomfortable (you itched, you stank like a fermented gym locker by the end of a shift....). Not a lot of good things to say about body armor.... particularly in summer on the day shift...
Yes, standard IIIA armor will stop most handgun rounds - but not rifle rounds at all... The big problem that we all knew about is that standard body armor simply doesn't cover enough of you (and I personally knew several officers that died of gunshot wounds while wearing their vests..). The round(s) just didn't hit the armor - and the cop died as a result... In my area, combining Dade (now Miami Dade) and Broward counties -roughly seventy miles of urban area including MIami and Ft. Lauderdale... Three officers a year died on the job - none of that mortality caused by angry wives (or girlfriends) or bad personal habits... so wearing a vest was a good idea. Anything that might defeat a direct attack and allow you to respond with direct fire was a very good idea - but it sure wasn't fun to wear - not ever.
When I retired out I was allowed to keep my old vest since it couldn't be re-issued. It's still hanging in a closet somewhere -23 years later (including the shock plate). Hope I never have to wear it again - not ever...
Yes, standard IIIA armor will stop most handgun rounds - but not rifle rounds at all... The big problem that we all knew about is that standard body armor simply doesn't cover enough of you (and I personally knew several officers that died of gunshot wounds while wearing their vests..). The round(s) just didn't hit the armor - and the cop died as a result... In my area, combining Dade (now Miami Dade) and Broward counties -roughly seventy miles of urban area including MIami and Ft. Lauderdale... Three officers a year died on the job - none of that mortality caused by angry wives (or girlfriends) or bad personal habits... so wearing a vest was a good idea. Anything that might defeat a direct attack and allow you to respond with direct fire was a very good idea - but it sure wasn't fun to wear - not ever.
When I retired out I was allowed to keep my old vest since it couldn't be re-issued. It's still hanging in a closet somewhere -23 years later (including the shock plate). Hope I never have to wear it again - not ever...
CapnMac
Member
Plate armor was typically less than 16 gauge (but varied in thickness based on the armorer's preferences and experience). Lighter gauges were much used for the "moving" bits--arms, legs, greaves, etc., as 16ga steel is about 2.5/sf, which would make a cuirass alone about 5-6#.
Entry man in cap-a-pie? Probably not, mostly because of the need for visibility. Entry man needs head-on-a-swivel, and a traditional helm just doesn't offer nearly enough visibility. Using "breathes" on a visor might suffice to keep some edged weapon attacks from hitting home, but, those designs relied heavily on most people fighting right handed, too.
Raid Armor shares some of the same weaknesses as plate in that it, too, must open to admit the wearer. Meaning that you just have to accept that certain approach vectors have more vulnerability than others. There's a bit of gallows humor about how the Number 1's armor kit has to withstand not only from the front, but also what ever No. 2 is carrying. Dynamic Entry is dynamic.
Will it always be so? No, eventually "there will be mecha"--once you get to powered exoskeletons many issues go away.
That's what the shield man is for. The stack forms up behind him and his 16lb ballistic shield.
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lemaymiami
Member
Fratricide (or "friendly fire"...) is always a possibility in the heat of the moment (particularly with your back up (your number two...) right behind you at the entry point (that moment when you're most vulnerable...). I was working on several occasions when one (or more) uniforms went to the ER with wounds that would later be traced to their fellow officers... I personally ordered plainclothes officers out of an area where we had an armed confrontation in progress...on more than one occasion over the years.... Things are dicey enough when the good guys are wearing uniforms...
More to the point - you need armor that will protect you from the most likely threats - and it needs to be comfortable enough that you always wear it... Wearing armor, though, doesn't protect you from all hazards - just the ones in front of or behind you (say a prayer that it's never needed... since the good guys don't always win...).
More to the point - you need armor that will protect you from the most likely threats - and it needs to be comfortable enough that you always wear it... Wearing armor, though, doesn't protect you from all hazards - just the ones in front of or behind you (say a prayer that it's never needed... since the good guys don't always win...).
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