Real mall ninja in my area.

[Old Guy]

A felony

We here in Florida as armed Security Officers, have a very simple mandate, we can use deadly force if we or anyone in our care and protection are threatened/attacked in such a way that any reasonable person would believe death or severe injury would occur.

Just about the same rules that govern CCW individuals in our beautiful (and hot just now!) State.

My job is to protect the lives of (me first!) the sales staff, who have been threatened in the past.

My nice new Jeep Cherokee sits outside, complete with a very professional decal kit, so it is not hard to guess we are working.

If you produce a weapon, you will be shot. I have been shooting since I came out of my UK Service in 1956 (I know old!) third most accurate in our last IDPA match, out of 64, so I can hit things as well.

A good Friend of mine runs a large Security Company in Illinois, his young people carry whatever pistol they can qualify with (with some restrictions) attacking a Security Officer in Chicago is a felony, same as Police.

At this time they are doing street patrol, in the City, not traffic.
If I was working in a Mall, can not see that happening tho, and had to take a 40 yard shot, I could do it, Security is a presence that you as an individual project, and having a great day doing just that keeps you happy, very similar to the Marine Motto!

Next time you see an Old Gentleman with a Glock 19, with TruGlow sights, and a spare Glock 17 magazine on the other side, be nice, he just might know how to use it.

 

[Treo]

reads like this pop up.

I'd feel like the biggest idiot in the world sitting in a booth or cruising around the mall at midnight.

That's why you get a third shift job. I spend my nights driving around rural El Paso County Colorado looking at wildlife, and stars. I actually deal W/ people 1 hour a day ( the most important hour of my day) I'm nice to them . they're nice to me then I leave and go to school. The biggest issue we've ever had was when our clients head of security tried to sneak on to one of our sites (literally dressed like a ninja) to "test" our response. Apparently the guy he did it to went after him W/ a 2 X 4 .

 

[denfoote]

It could be worse!!
He could be a mall zombie!!!

 

[ashtxsniper]

Also depending on where you are your claim that, "The felonious assault occurs when he restricts my movements, lies to me about his policing powers and grabs my arm" can be false. Here it would be a Class C misdemeanor assault plus a Class A misdemeanor unlawful restraint, not a felony.. but that's only if the arrest was not lawful, which it may be.. since again, in some places security officers do in fact have the ability to arrest people. In the case of the State of Texas a security officer may arrest for the commission of a Class A misd or any level of felony. Criminal tresspass in some conditions does reach the level of a Class A misd... so yes, it's conceivable that under certain conditions you refusing the requests of a secuirty officer, and nothing else, may get you arrested, by a security officer, (legally) in Texas.

Yes a Security Guard can arrest for these things but so can your everyday Texas citizens. Felonies, any breach of the peace, to prevent harm to the victim, or to prevent a person from harming themselves. OBTW Assault in this state is a class A misdemeanor not a class C. A class C would be for disorderly conduct which applies to mutual combat in a public place with no injuries to either party. The poster you are arguing with was attacked not engaged in mutual combat. This makes is a class A misdemeanor Assault unless there is serious bodily injury then it is a 3rd degree felony aggravated assault. As far as most of the security (85%) around here they are either wannabe cops or police academy drop outs. Thats why God made Police so that security guards can have heroes.

 

[XDKingslayer]

I hope someone treats me with the same patience if the shoe should ever be on the other foot.

Odd. The first thing I though was "If I get to the point where all I have to do is talk about my poop I hope someone puts has the patience to put a bullet in my head not listen to me.".

 

[The Tourist]

If you produce a weapon, you will be shot.

Have you attended the same firearms classes that your local LEOs attend? Did you graduate? Have you had "shoot--don't shoot" training? Any classes in negotiating with offenders?

There's a very good reason I ask.

Two years ago while out grocery shopping, my wife and I ran into one of her co-workers. To make extra cash, this co-worker had a part-time job as a mall ninja. During the conversation, she pointed to the clip-knife in my pocket and smugly committed, "We (meaning her trained staff of vigilantes) do not permit concealed weapons."

I simply asked her how a 'weapon' can be considered concealed if it's seen and there is no aggressive behavior.

Now here's my slant. If this woman worked for you and I stopped for a sandwich in her food court, she would draw down on me.

The reason? She saw a 'weapon.'

I'll re-state my overall position. These guys are not cops. They have minimal training at best. Many have the 'Barney Fife' syndrome. They are not sworn officers.

You use the phrase, "produce a weapon."

Perhaps cut a sandwich for my wife? If I'm sitting calmly enjoying the day and a Fife goes for his weapon, I'm going to try and kill him as fast as I can. No remorse. You shouldn't even have a gun. I'm not even sure the Fifes have training with pepper-spray.

 

[RoadkingLarry]

I did the unarmed security a few time while i was on shore duty for spending money, and for a while it was at a mall.. I always figured my number one job as unarmed security was to make sure the doors are locked or unlocked as appropriate and to be the first guy to call 911. Ain't gonna get much more for minimum wage.

 

[BattleChimp Potemkin]

I hated and loved being a security guard for various reasons.

Hated:
Always one guy in the group that was a ninja type. That guy always "had more seniority" than others because of "his background", even though it was his first week. Those guys either quit/get fired immediantly or they actually stay on for quite a few years. Either case, its a pain in many circumstances (especially at night duty in a warehouse, you have to listen to their stories or tell em to shut it because you are tired of it). What was really bad is when management (never there when you needed them for a bad situation) always overreacts to anything. A bag left in the breakroom would always bring local police because of that moron. Hated filling out reports due to the paranoia of some overreactionary fat slob.

Loved it:
Great coffee! We had free reign of the break room at nights, so I always brought in 8'o'Clock coffee from the store and gave who ever was with me that night a great treat. Easy job, decent pay for a fresh college grad (no where close to my current pay with a professional desk job now). Got to carry! That was really fun, especially when the company set up a system of pay withdrawal until the weapon was paid for. Got to keep my Ruger 94 and Smith 13. Easy job, carried a flashlight, occasionally wrote something in a book and walked. I am a skinny guy, but I even lost 5 lbs in my first 2 weeks from the walking. Felt great.

I admit that there are alot of folks in the security rings that are a little overboard. However, can I blame them? Not really. I look at gun mag ads and stuff and see nothing but tacticool stuff and stories of nuclear security guards that can crap lasers. Not a suprise that is what the latest generation of security guards want to be, coupled with an already low self esteem (many could not make it into the police or military, found security jobs). The most "tactical thing" that I even had on my uniform was a basketweave Bianchi holster for my Smith. Everyone else wanted the latest in Kydex, Blackhawk or what not and WOULDNT SHUT UP about it either.

 

[Thernlund]

...nuclear security guards that can crap lasers...

Now that's just damn funny.


-T.

 

[Old Guy]

Weapon insert Gun!

Tourist

Have you attended the same firearms classes that your local LEOs attend? Did you graduate? Have you had "shoot--don't shoot" training? Any classes in negotiating with offenders?

These exchanges always seem to deteriorate in to slung nastiest no matter how we try to keep it civil, as a Firearms Instructor full time, for 23 years, I have taught many of the type of classes you speak about, and monitored many at Annual Training Conferences, of IALEFI, but now after retiring my Son talked me into helping him with the high risk contracts (gullible me) if you enter a Diamond Store, which is protected by a Man Trap, and a staff member takes no heed of the metal detector beep! Person could now be on the floor with pistol in hand, this individual will not be negotiated with.

Even criminals who have obtained money, on leaving have turned and shot the person who gave them the cash, as a Security Officer you can not put your self into a persons head, we have no mandate to arrest, we do not even carry handcuffs, we protect.

You must have seen the Newspaper story of the young Security Officer here in South Florida, who shot the masked individual with a weapon (read Pistol) in his hand approaching the door of the Pay Less Shoe Store, through the glass! Four shots, 4 hits.
He had not even entered the premises he was paid to protect! The Israelis call it a preemptive strike.

It was thought to have been a man woman type of domestic? Never was reported in any kind of a conclusive way.
Charges against Store Security were not even contemplated, produce weapon (gun) get shot. I get paid quite well, but the smiles a waves from the departing staff as they drive away, in themselves are good for my heart.

The average Citizen in my wonderful adopted Country are not violent, have no concept of dealing with danger of any kind, when asked when they last fought, with or without weapons, say "Never" or grade School, so in some cases protection of some nature has to be employed, the Police have no mandate to protect you, unless you pay them as Off Duty people, the type of work our protection Division does is not Police Work, the Police are not trained for it, and are not good at it. Stand me in the middle of an busy intersection to direct traffic! look out.

Tourist, if you ever get to Micky's Town, email me prior, you will get a free coffee (if you drink it) at least.

 

[Thernlund]

The average Citizen in my wonderful adopted Country are not violent, have no concept of dealing with danger of any kind, when asked when they last fought, with or without weapons, say "Never" or grade School, so in some cases protection of some nature has to be employed, the Police have no mandate to protect you, unless you pay them as Off Duty people, the type of work our protection Division does is not Police Work, the Police are not trained for it, and are not good at it. Stand me in the middle of an busy intersection to direct traffic! look out.

Maybe this is just craaaaaazy me not getting it... but that paragraph reeks of mall ninja-ism.

Old Guy, I think you need to participate in this thread...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=377739


-T.

 

[The Tourist]

I have taught many of the type of classes you speak

I have taught many people to sharpen, that doesn't make me a samurai.

Are you a sworn officer or not? I've heard this "just as good as" postulate all of my life.

You're a cop, or you're not. You're a Green Beret, or you're not. You own a Harley, or you don't.

Tell us, were you ever enrolled in a police academy? How did you do? I have a sneaking suspicion I know.

 

[LiquidTension]

I work security at a hotel every Sunday night. I'm sure I look like a mall ninja, what with the 5.11s and the bullet resistant vest on. 'Course, my vest says "Police" on it, maybe that's why people don't give me too much trouble.

Can't say that I've ever had a run-in with an overzealous security type. I used to drive Sizemore guards back and forth to their post on campus. They were all pretty nice, but they would have been worthless in any sort of emergency situation. For the most part, they were just there to make sure the FD got called if the building caught on fire and to turn off malfunctioning alarms so the PD didn't have to drive out to do it.

 

[Gladius]

The word we're looking for here is "grounded". As in "grounded in reality".

A long time ago, I went to work for a Security Company (ie Rent-a-gaurd shop), that had armed and unarmed "officers" (cute little note, this was before my state had mandatory certifications. If you could breathe, and scratch your initials, and had "no felony criminal background*", you could become a gaurd. With a shiny badge and everything. And if you had a gun, you could theoretically become an armed gaurd (of course, the smarter companies would require some training, or proof thereof...).

Needless to say, the variety of backgrounds and experience at this company were... ummm... interesting, to say the least.... some of the best Mall Ninja stories I have come from this company, I gotta tell you sometime...

*We did have at least one ex-con (some kind of felony, I don't even want to remember which one) who carried, both on and off duty. He didn't have a CWP. That didn't last long (it shouldn't have happened at all... ah, the good old days, right?)....

Thankfully, I left that company and actually went to work at a local mall. At the time, this Mall hired only former, current (off duty) and reserve law enforcement officers. The level of professionalism tended to be rather higher, and the "mall ninja" pretention was minimal, despite the fact this was a Mall Security unit. We had good relations with the various law enforcement agencies in the area, and eventually the local PD opened a small substation in our office to improve cooperation between agencies. Well, long story short, management changed, they kicked the PD out of the office, and the higher-paid police-trained folks were all laid off.... and now? Mall Ninjas.

In my experience, the following rules are true:
1. You get what you pay for. You pay crappy wages, you get mall ninjas.
2. When you're talking liability, it makes absolutely no sense at all whatsoever to scrimp on training -- especially when it comes to the statutes concerning arrest powers....
3. I think it's fine to be a Mall Ninja -- as long as it is made perfectly clear that YOU (Mr. Mall Ninja) HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO POWERS AT ALL WHATSOEVER. You cannot make arrests, you cannot carry exotic weapons, you cannot detain people, you cannot deploy tactically from your security vehicle, you cannot fly, you cannot disappear, etc etc.... AND you cannot talk as though you have these powers. Of course, this strips "mall ninja-ing" of it's "mall ninja-ness". Oh well. Get a new hobby.
4. I'm about as Tactical as a lump of clay. And that's the way I like it.

 

[Thernlund]

You cannot make arrests, ... you cannot detain people...

That's right.

Here's a story that touches on that...

I got bounced once from a club. A couple friends I was with were being nutty. Not violent or belligerent, but certainly rowdy. One buddy of mine apparently wanted to talk to everyone within 30 feet. Pfff.

So they bounced us all. Ho hum. No big I guess.

So I head for the door as I was asked to with most of the troop behind me a few paces. As I'm walking, a big guy with a "Staff" shirt on grabs my arm. I immediately yanked my arm away from him not knowing what the hell. Before I knew it I was in the parking lot on the pavement getting pounded by 4 big men in "Staff" shirts. Of course, I'm now fighting back, but it's futile.

As my buddies exit the club behind me they see me getting pounded into dust and jump into the fray to rescue me. They start pulling these guys off me and are taking some licks of their own. But (admirably I must say) they remained defensive and did not "get big", as it were.

Well, I guess security at this place came in two flavors. They had the guys with "Staff" shirts, then they had guys wearing white uniforms carrying radios and tin badges that said "Security".

So a security guy jumps in and starts pepper spraying everyone in sight. My wife was just walking out the club door and saw what was going on. She says, "What the he.." and BAM! Sprayed. Some other random guy ON HIS WAY IN got sprayed. Ugh.

Anywho, I'm just managing to stumble to my feet and he sprays me but hit me in only one eye. I just stopped. He looks at me and I say, "I eat wings hotter than that!". (Understand that I'm beaten blue and bleeding and I'm a little pissed about it.) Before he can act on my comment I'm hit from the side by a "Staff" guy and I go back down. The security guy jumps on my back (he's about 5' 8" and 270lbs) and gets me rolled over and actually cuffs me.

After another few minutes everything is calmed down. I look around with my one good eye and see three of my friends, my wife, and some guy I didn't know all cuffed up. Security guy has his knee in my back.

Now I'm still pissed, but I've also numbed up so I don't really hurt anymore. So against most sane advice, I say, "Hey... you know, I'm going home tonight and you'll still be making $7 an hour." He didn't like that at all. He leans in and puts more of his weight into my back. Ouch.

So the real cops finally show up and separate everyone. Still in cuffs, the majority on my party is standing near a cop car getting questioned. We say that we were being rowdy so they asked us to leave, and as we did they escalated it. Simple and to the point.

About 20 feet away a police supervisor (or some higher rank of cop) is chewing the manager of the club into tiny bits. I mean this was R. Lee Ermey type stuff. Just brutal. Apparently this place was known to LE as having over-zealous "security" and LE was getting sick of it.

Then... the best part. The cops on scene apparently thought we had been cuffed by cops. When one asked around he discovered none of them did it. So he asked us who did. Fat security guard #1 was our reply. The cuffs came off us and went on him. Flipping priceless!

Apparently, as per what we were told, if we pressed charges he could go up for kidnapping or some such ridiculously huge crime. Geez! I was still not exactly 100%, but I did hear something about illegal detainment and involuntary restraint, or something like that.

So we talk with the cops and each other awhile more while this guy sweats it out (with all his co-workers standing off to the side watching), and finally decide it wasn't really worth it to press charges. So they let him go and off we went to breakfast.

Fun stuff, until...

The next week my wife was reading in the paper about an almost identical skirmish at the same club. But this time the guy they beat on died from it on the scene.

I tried to find the victims family to offer testimony in case it would help, but was never able to find anything on the victim.


-T.

 

[wagoneer1019]

can somone email me the text of the origonal mall ninja stories? I have looked on line and was having trouble finding them , I want to send it to my dad who owned a security comp. in the '80s sent to [email protected]

 

[Thernlund]

can somone email me the text of the origonal mall ninja stories?

For everyone to enjoy...

http://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/

From the man himself...

http://coltcco.com/mnarchive/


-T.

 

[TexasSkyhawk]

my Son talked me into helping him with the high risk contracts (gullible me) if you enter a Diamond Store, which is protected by a Man Trap, and a staff member takes no heed of the metal detector beep! Person could now be on the floor with pistol in hand, this individual will not be negotiated with.

First off, your son doesn't have a nickname that often gets confused with "Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more" does he?

Secondly, spare me.

"Man Trap" "person on floor with pistol in hand" blah blah blah.

This is EXACTLY the kind of talk and rhetoric that defines "mall ninja-ness" perfectly.

Whatcha gonna do if one of my old scroungy-ass undercover partners come through your "high risk" metal detectors and sets it off? Or one of the boys from MacDill or Eglin or Homestead up to see the rodent with big ears and decides maybe a ring is due for their lady?

You try throwing THEM down on the floor and waving your little pistol at them, you'll be walking awful funny and awkward-like until someone takes you to a gunsmith-turned-proctologist . . .

There are good security professionals and then there are ninjas. I have nothing but respect for the professionals and nothing but utter contempt for the ninjas.

And both sides earn the opinions they get.

Jeff

 

[hoji]

This is EXACTLY the kind of talk and rhetoric that defines "mall ninja-ness" perfectly.

Whatcha gonna do if one of my old scroungy-ass undercover partners come through your "high risk" metal detectors and sets it off? Or one of the boys from MacDill or Eglin or Homestead up to see the rodent with big ears and decides maybe a ring is due for their lady?

You try throwing THEM down on the floor and waving your little pistol at them, you'll be walking awful funny and awkward-like until someone takes you to a gunsmith-turned-proctologist . . .

yep, couldn't agree more

 

[KiltedClaymore]

sorry to backtrack, but HO-LY CRAP! i just watched that video about the security dude and the skateboarder...that guy should be in federal prison.

 

[SCKimberFan]

We're still waiting for the photos of the van!

 

[hoji]

sorry to backtrack, but HO-LY CRAP! i just watched that video about the security dude and the skateboarder...that guy should be in federal prison.

That was a sworn Baltimore Police Officer, NOT a security Guard.

 

[KiltedClaymore]

still over reacted. still should go to jail.

 

[divemedic]

You never know where you will find Level IV licensed officers.

Hahahaha!!! I looked it up. In TX, to be a Level IV officer requires 2 online courses to get Level I and II, and Levels III and IV require a total of 45 hours of training.

Not exactly Navy SEAL level skill work there.

I work security at a hotel every Sunday night. I'm sure I look like a mall ninja, what with the 5.11s and the bullet resistant vest on. 'Course, my vest says "Police" on it, maybe that's why people don't give me too much trouble.

Wow.

 

[Thernlund]

I work security at a hotel every Sunday night. I'm sure I look like a mall ninja, what with the 5.11s and the bullet resistant vest on. 'Course, my vest says "Police" on it, maybe that's why people don't give me too much trouble.

Wow.

He's a cop working an off-duty job.




-T.