Real numbers?

[Red Wind]

The next step is to point out that the stats about firearms violence--bogus or not--are based on the actions of that tiny number of people and that they are easily identifiable: gangs, drug involvement, mentally ill, career criminals, persons known for violence and domestic violence. That the 80 million or so responsible firearms owners are not part of it, not guilty of being violent.

You've done excellent work here. A very fine thread that has cast a lot of light on the true causes of death by firearms in America. I've passed it on to numerous friends and relatives.

It has opened a lot of their eyes. Thank you for putting in the time and effort to conceive some very important ideas that lead, hopefully, to eventual lifesaving solutions.

The problem is fairly isolated. The causes, mental illness, rampant inner city crime from destroyed minority families, uncontrolled drug trafficking, have to be vigorously attacked.

It's a gigantic agenda that has been let loose since the "Great Society" 1960's. The price being paid is enormous in lives and treasure. Americas future depends on it being brought under control. Starting today, not tomorrow.

 

[denton]

Just a couple of general comments....

Pointing out that the number of murders by firearm is small compared with boating accidents or whatever is probably a non-starter. I think a better approach is to point out that our Founders knew very well the advantages and disadvantages of an armed society, and gave us an armed society. If you think that was a bad policy decision, you are over two centuries late to the meeting where it was decided. In the present world, we can evaluate whether it was a wise decision or not by weighing the public advantages of an armed society vs. the public disadvantages of an armed society. As nearly as I can tell, the number of murders, rapes, and armed robberies prevented by gun ownership far outweighs the evil people do with firearms.

If someone wants to change the status quo, they have the burden of showing that what they want to do will bring a positive result. Gun controllers have never produced convincing evidence.

As Red Wind points out, much of the hysteria comes from the 1960-70 era. Our US homicide rate about doubled over the two decades from 1955 to 1975. Big surprise: Gun sales were rising during that period. So the news headlines were about the rising sales of guns and the coincident rising crime rate. After that period, violent crime declined, but the Left never seemed to have noticed, and keeps on running headlines as though nothing had changed. To them, it's still 1972.

I'm old enough to remember when the public boogeyman was a teenage gang member with a switchblade knife. Out of that panic we got a bunch of switchblade knife laws that we are only now putting out to pasture.

Most gun laws are made by people who learned all they know about guns by watching TV and going to the movies. The story there, over and over again, is that someone evil with a gun does something bad, the victims are unable to help themselves, and someone with a gun (and usually a badge) comes and sets things straight. The moral: Only the police use guns wisely. People forget that those shows are also usually written by people that learned all THEY know about guns from watching earlier TV shows and movies. They should have spent more time with The Rifleman.

 

[Red Wind]

They should have spent more time with The Rifleman.

Or even Adam 12. Those 2 Los Angeles, 1960's cops, were cool, calm and realistic.
Milner and McCord. A fine show that I never missed.

 

[wahsben]

Suicide by firearm is by far the most successful method (85%) and a method which one has no chance to change one's mind. Once the trigger has been pulled you can't take it back.

Other methods have very low rates. Overdosing is only 2% effective, cutting only 1%. (Those two methods make up 80% of total attempts)

Add it all up and on average only 9% of people that attempt suicide succeed.

Jumping from a tall building leaves you no chance to change your mind either. Suicide is abortion of oneself so the antis should have no problem with it.
The US is #1 in gun ownership per capita but nowhere near #1 per capita in murder rates.
I like Bill Whittles video on this www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

People who worry about firearms promoting ease of suicide are not very imaginative--not as imaginative as people committing suicide.

Japan is a stand out example. The firearm ownership very controlled, but they have had a very high suicide success rate, roughly twice ours at times. Among the favorite methods are carbon monoxide, hanging and jumping off buildings. I saw one article complaining about hibachi carbon monoxide group deaths being organized over the net.

Walking in front of trains has also been used in Japan--and here.

Some wrong way drivers in fatal head on crashes in the US have been suicides. There may be others that are also suicides, but not officially proven.

 

[IL Guns]

In the spirit of the OP, here are rare numbers on firearms used in a criminal or violent manner in Chicago, IL. It does not take into account mental health issues but is a pretty good and goofy way to put the stats for Chicago. On the bottom is links to other years, I doubt that few if any of the criminals have FOID cards or care about laws. I find it more to the point then how the thread went a bit off course to Japans suicide rate. Here's the link: http://heyjackass.com/