Reality vs Rambo!

[Wildalaska]

If I wander into WW Guns (which I have done on many occasions), and ask you about Marlin Rifles, you (I hope) are going to ask me what my intentions are - is the rifle for use as a bear back-up while fishing, for hunting, for silhouette shooting? Depending on what the rifle is for, you'd offer different options or even suggest a different rifle altogether. And I would value your opinions on the matter because your shop has a reputation in that area.

I do that every day...but look at my signature of course...

When somebody comes into this forum and asks about handguns or general carry information, he's going to get a variety of advice from a variety of people. And yeah, some of it is going to be overkill - snag-free sights, yeah - good idea. Backup guns... maybe that's overkill.

Exactly my point again....sometimes we have overkill here do we not...

The whole thing is to be reasonable about it..like you say:

I just don't equate such advice with a "Rambo" mentality. A guy who has to carry receipts from his liquor store in Detroit out the door every night at 1am better have all the firepower and skills he can handle. That same guy might think my Guide Gun (with the WWG upgrades) is silly. He doesn't run across 1200 pound bears on a regular basis, and I don't have to carry cash through the mean streets of Detroit.

There it is...maybe you have expressed my concept better than me...

The right to self defense, which is a fundamental right of all people above and beyond the 2nd amendment, is not a right to be excersized only the by the "trained" (assuming we can even define what "training" is)..its a right for everyone.

Some people choose to excersize that right by carrying a firearm. Thats OK. As another poster has said, the excersize of that rightis an awesome responsibility and entails "training" with that firearm (whatever training is)...

Some people view "training as going through the courses at Gunsite and thats fine. Others view it as practice, or private sessions, or military service, or police background, etc. What is sufficient training is beyond the scope of this thread...

What is important to the awesome resonsibility of carrying a gun is MINDSET. All the physical and technical training training and hardware in the world does not change that. The use of a weapon by a civilian is a last ditch defense to save life. Any use of the firearm to do that that ends a life is gonna be as highly scrutinized as any other HOMICIDE (becasue thats what it is under the law). As one old cop told me, if you shoot someone and want to guarantee you will be cleared "you better have a hole in your vest and the gun that made it in his dead hand." Now I am sure all of us would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6, but the fact remains you will be judged...by not only circumastances as YOU saw them but with the Monday Morning quarterback mentality so common in law enforcement. And woe to you if you live someplace where it is "anti gun" or where someone is looking to make a name for himself.

The point is, I think, that we all have to be real careful...if a guy has a question "Whats the best carry gun and technique" the answer should not be..."Custom 1911 with sights you can use to clear malfunction and no guide rod because you cant press load one handed loaded with Black Talons, 4 spare mags in Kramer IWB with J frame back up on ankle loaded with depleted uranium rounds" but rather..

OK where do you live..high crime area or low crime...?

How much "training" are you gonna have..how much shooting do you do...are you uncomfortable with certain calibers. etc...?

Hell guys I live in Anchorage...we dont walk anywhere except in the parks (.45 usually for those, moose!)...strteet crime as long as you are sober and a non criminal is virtually non existent....what do I need more than my NAA for?

And Keith, what do you carry in the ciity limits of Kodiak?

 

[MLH]

To answer the original question

For some it's called testostorone.
For others it's paranoia.
For others it's just the mall ninja coming out.

 

[cordex]

The point is, I think, that we all have to be real careful...if a guy has a question "Whats the best carry gun and technique" the answer should not be..."Custom 1911 with sights you can use to clear malfunction and no guide rod because you cant press load one handed loaded with Black Talons, 4 spare mags in Kramer IWB with J frame back up on ankle loaded with depleted uranium rounds" but rather..

OK where do you live..high crime area or low crime...?

Wildalaska,
You're right ... there is no "one size fits all" solution.
As "El Tejon" would say, there is no Magic Sword.
We agree there, I think.

But I think you need to re-examine your original post. From my perpsective, you didn't appear to just tell people that before they recommend a Magic Sword Carry Rig and Ammunition Depot(tm) loadout, they need to determine the ultimate use and intention of the audience, It seemed that you just couldn't resist poking a little fun at anyone whose situation demanded, or even has chosen to carry anything beyond your own needs.

That's how I read it, anyway. But, then, I carry a backup gun and three spare magazines. And I can drag the sights on my 1911 across my belt to clear the gun one-handed. So you can discount what I say ... *grin*

 

[Bob A]

Re: Harold Mayo

I had a long post to reply here, but suffice it to say this...

1. You're right about preparing for an attacker. That is, after all why I carry my gun. I was tired and what I was trying to do (responding to the original post) was make the point that if somebody wants to hurt you, there isn't much you can do to stop them. There are counter measures you can take, but they only go so far.

2. At no point did I make the statement (or imply, infer, or suggest) that carrying a gun, having a backup plan or escape route, having a spare mag (or 2) or practicing with the gun makes you a Rambo. If you carry 3 guns, have a shotgun in the trunk of your car, and have 6 mags for each weapon, that's a different story. If you do that almost anywhere in the US, the DA will probably prosecute and say you were looking for trouble. Ask any cop or ex-cop on this board if he or she thinks this is reasonable.

3. For somebody who I have never met, wasn't responding to, and know nothing about, you have a great ability to read my mind. I sure didn't know I meant all those things, and when I reread my post, I couldn't see how you got all that from what I posted. Please lend me your crystal ball.


I don't care what people do with their time unless it affects me in some way. If you and Bubba want to shoot up every round of ammo you can get every Saturday, have at it. But if you think for a second that there's no such thing as a gun nut, Rambo, or Tackleberry mentality, you're as wrong as 2 left shoes. Practice and being prepared for improbabilities are prudent, but unless you're a Navy SEAL or on a SWAT team, there is nothing the average person will gain from this much "training" unless it's just for fun. The main thing you need with your gun is a survival mindset. Most of the rest is window dressing.

 

[BigG]

Designer Arms Fashion Boutique/Pistol Finishing Schools.

Imho, it's a bit of harmless fantasy/role play that some guys indulge in. Some guys get paid for fulfilling the fantasies of others. They are called teachers. "Suppose that piece of cardboard is a bad guy and he's holding a knife to your loved one's throat..."

Anything that helps you develop your marksmanship or familiarization with your weapon is good. If it is FUN, it is a bonus.

We all have a streak of Walter Mitty in us to one degree or another. Look at the popularity of those 1-900 numbers, for example.

 

[Soap]

What is important to the awesome resonsibility of carrying a gun is MINDSET. All the physical and technical training training and hardware in the world does not change that.

I think everyone here would agree with that. But once you have mindset, it doesn't hurt to develop your technique so it becomes automatic. It also doesn't hurt to use equipment that facilitates your techniques or even your mindset.

OK where do you live..high crime area or low crime...?

Since most of the crime in your area is committed by moose... I think its important to remember that in a modern city that there are no longer the hard lines between the good side of town and the bad side of town. It is nearly impossible to avoid crime in a modern city by staying on the "right side of the tracks".

 

[GhostShooter]

the idea that one NEEDS to have all this training, extra mags, the hottest rounds, back up guns so you can go out and FIGHT the goblins for truth, justice and the American way....

Why would you not want to have as much training as humanly possible? Also, do you realize how many stories there are out there about people who needed the extra mag or BUG. Granted Statistically it's small but for that matter so is the chance that you will need your CCW. Guess it's time to hang up the pistol....

 

[triggertime]

RE: Wildalaska

"I dont think my post was either a rant or a berate, seems like perhaps we have some projection here...and enlighten me...what is my mindset?"

If your post was not a rant with the intention to berate then why have you chosen to denigrate those who take their level of self preparedness more seriously than yours?

You've already stated that you view those whos mindset differentiates from yours as people who are carry a gun as an extention of their penis, so it would be easy to assume that you also view those who train as people who are feeding their machismo and simply do not need to train. You're saying that developing a high level of proficiency with your self defense weapons of choice is unnecessary because you're never going to have the opportunity to use them anyway. Right?

What is your mindset? Similar to that of 'Jan Liberal'. You scrutinize those who carry, what they carry, their need to carry and have formed the opinion that every problem in the world can be solved without training and a Seecamp .32 (or in your case, a Keltec P32)

Perhaps you should apply for the position of gun-writer since you're obviously the 'pseudo Jan'.

"Ah, so you recognize that there is sometimes a problem...perhaps we agree we have "rambo wannabes" around here?"

Yes, there is a problem, but you won't find people like that here. If you want to play in the sand with people like that, then theres always that other board devoted to the plastic fantastic. I hear they have a big sandbox, perhaps you should go visit?

"WEll first you have to tell me what my mindset is, and then tell me how I sterotyped anyone as a "mallninja"..."

I've already told you what your mindset is. In a nutshell, you stereotype anyone that has a 'warrior mindset' as a rambo worshipping mall ninja.

"Ah I see, so your claim is that anyone who carries a mouse gun does not value their life..that only peiople who carry "BIG" guns do....in other words, carry your MP5 down the streets of Gary Indiana, lots of criminals there..the only persons then who appropriately carry a firearm, despite any other circumstances or the level of their traing, are those that carry a "BIG" gun..."

Anyone that heeds the advice that is pontificated in various gunrag publications and then changes the order of their life based on that information is severely lacking in judgment.

Simply assuming that a 'mouse gun' is sufficient enough to ward off all evil that one may or may not encounter during the course of their daily life is foolish.

It is safe to say that anyone who values their life would not willingly depend on an ineffective tool for self defense unless they were either ignorant or corrupted by the erroneous information they've been subjected to via the various gunrag publications.

People who know better get their information from a more reliable source and then formulate their own opinions and plan and prepare accordingly. It all boils down to the fact that some people value their life more than others.

But if carrying an ineffective mousegun out of convenience rather than to accomodate for a more appropriate self defense arm flips your chicken, then by all means, have at it. Its your life, not mine.

"Absolutely thats find...as long as you share with me the secret of your omniscience that allows you to glean my mindset from a post...."

Intuition and experience from interacting with people of your caliber. No pun intended, of course.

Edit: typo - Choosen? Chosen.

 

[King]

This thread reminds me of "Clyde", one or Little Bill's deputies in the movie "Forgiven". If you saw it, Clyde was the one armed deputy.

At one point, Clyde returns to the sheriff's office just before a situation boils up with "English Bob". Other deputies are preparing and have even loaded one armed Clyde's revolvers.

Clyde returns, empties the revolver and reloads it himself as well as two other revolvers. One deputy asks him why a one armed guys needs all that firepower anyway.

Clyde's response...."I just don't want to get killed for lack of shooting back".

Having an "arsenal" on you at any given time may be too much but having the right tools and in sufficient quantites to keep from getting killed for lack of shooting back is another matter. That will depend largely on one's own personal situation and yes" their mindset". Hopefully they are skilled, trained, practiced and have good judgement to go along with those tools.

 

[Keith]

Wild,

Only you can decide whether or not you need to carry a gun, and what type of gun that might be.

When I come to Anchorage, I'm usually staying downtown at the Captain Cook. It's not unusual to encounter insane, ranting drunks exhibiting violent behavior on any of the side streets after dark. You've seen it - some fool in from one of the villages on his semi-annual drunken binge who suddenly becomes a street-Zorro with an empty wine bottle after being ejected from a bar.
Altercations are easily avoided in most cases by simply walking by and avoiding contact, but I don't feel silly packing a .45 in Anchorage.
Here in Kodiak a year ago, three drunk fisherman were staggering around a neighborhood making a racket in the middle of the night, arguing, throwing bottles, etc. An off-duty cop went outside to ask them to quiet down and ended up in intensive care with knife wounds. It's not unusual to have 4 or 5 thousand out-of-town commercial fisherman awaiting a big opening, and this place can be like Dodge City when you pack that many people in town and feed them enough booze.
Not too long before the incident above, three local teenagers decided they wanted to move to LA to "join a gang" (no ****!). They felt the best way to be taken seriously was to kill somebody before they left. They called a cab and shot him to death when he arrived - it could just as easily been a random stranger (me) walking down the street.


You can REDUCE the odds of being involved in such an affair by choosing to live in a "safe" place (like Anchorage or Kodiak) and you can further reduce your odds by simply being prudent in your actions - avoid known trouble spots, avoid potential conflicts with drunks, etc. But, at some point you have to take charge of your own life. I refuse to lock myself in my hotel room because of downtown Anchorage drunks and druggies. I refuse to avoid enjoying my own small city because a bunch of drunks are in town.

So, hell yes I pack a gun! The odds are a thousand to one that I'll never need it, but if I do I'll need it real bad. Most of the time I'm carrying a .380 Mustang Pocketlight. When "the boys" are whooping it up downtown, I pack a Compact Aluminum Kimber .45

Keith

 

[ball3006]

I agree there are too many rambos...

your number one defense is being aware of your surroundings and being observant. I carry a small pocket pistol during the day and the regular big gun at night, which is rarely because I do not go out much at night. Too old for the night life. I normally shoot left handed but carry right handed if in a car because you cannot get the gun out lefthanded because of the door. I try to go thru 100 rounds a month to stay proficient. At home I have radar, my two Siamese who never fail to look towards a "different" noise and if I am not in the room they meow so I will come look at what they think they hear. I like the idea of a designated CCW when going out mentioned in another post.....chris3

 

[Wildalaska]

Why would you not want to have as much training as humanly possible

Never said that training is not important...the issue is how much training...as someone said earlier...do you need to be a Navy Seal to carry a gun..or is it Walter Mittyish,,,

Seems that many of us are saying the same thing, except for one or two posters that are showing the type of aggression I am referring too

 

[Wildalaska]

Perhaps you should apply for the position of gun-writer since you're obviously the 'pseudo Jan'....

If you want to play in the sand with people like that, then theres always that other board devoted to the plastic fantastic. I hear they have a big sandbox, perhaps you should go visit?

I'm sorry you are so angry.....

 

[Viking6]

It's irresponsible (but your right) to go out and about with a gun and not be trained to the minimum requirement to safely operate the weapon you carry. For a hobby, no harm in training as far as you can take it, I wish I could train more, I think I train enough. What I have noticed in some posts, from time to time, is what we used to call a certain "froginess". Maybe it's a matter of my perception but the signal, sometimes more subtle than others, that I get is "man, would I love to shoot somebody". That expression is generally rare and usually out-balanced by what I think are more rational posts from more rational "mindsets". But good wishes to all and good shooting.

 

[P12]

If some didn't see the "overkill" how would they know where the sensible middle is?

 

[Soap]

Never said that training is not important...the issue is how much training...as someone said earlier...do you need to be a Navy Seal to carry a gun..or is it Walter Mittyish,,,

I see your point. But I really don't agree with it. You can plain and simple be an idiot and carry a gun. I really don't care unless it affects me. You can be a mall ninja and carry a gun. Or you could be Jeff Cooper himself...none of it bothers me. But it would be convenient for me to simply counter that people who toss a mousegun in a pocket are irresponsible bliss ninnies who probably walk around in condition white all day. But that would be unfair. Just as it is unfair for you to label people who train seriously as Rambo wannabes. Where did you get so broad a brush?

Also, since you seem to know, what exactly is the perfect amount of training for me and whomever else posted on this thread? We're curious to know.

 

[Harold Mayo]

If you and Bubba want to shoot up every round of ammo you can get every Saturday, have at it.

Me and Bubba? What does THAT mean?


But if you think for a second that there's no such thing as a gun nut, Rambo, or Tackleberry mentality, you're as wrong as 2 left shoes.

Never said or implied that there wasn't. I have no idea where you came up with that.


Practice and being prepared for improbabilities are prudent, but unless you're a Navy SEAL or on a SWAT team, there is nothing the average person will gain from this much "training" unless it's just for fun.

There ARE MANY things that the average person can gain BESIDES having fun. I don't advocate EVERYONE "going tactical" (horrid phrase), but it's up to the individual. Training for a marathon is grueling and there is absolutely no objective benefit for the average person in running one, but there are MANY people who do so just for the experience or to say that they ran one. The average person who is going to carry a gun SHOULD practice with it, though to what extent is up to the individual. MOST people who carry a firearm, LEOs especially, should train more than they do. Simply HAVING a gun isn't the answer.


The main thing you need with your gun is a survival mindset. Most of the rest is window dressing.

Ummm...ok. Training is window dressing. Learning to be BETTER is window dressing. Having a gun and an attitude is all you need.

 

[HS/LD]

I don’t want to get on a rant here but…

While I couldn't agree more, that intelligence and restraint is the key to surviving 99.999% of life’s threatening situations... I further agree that I am much more likely to get colon cancer and hemorrhoids than shot at… let alone actually shot!

I have trained for years in various hand-to-hand combat styles, spent hours and hours in the gym and school, but I have NEVER had a fight in a bar I still realize the biggest benefits from this training are the health aspects and the development of discipline and confidence….
I have, however, defended myself successfully against multiple attackers at various times and appreciate the time and effort I put into my training.

Likewise I carry 11 rounds of .40 in my handgun (and sometimes an extra 10) and a 4" folder (both in "tactical black" ). I shoot every week. I researched, and studied various “tactical†ammo types (I carry 165grain Rem GS ) I practice "tactical" reloads, “tactical†weak hand shooting and “tactical†Mozambique Drills.
In my short life:
I have shot four people. (That I know of ) All, however, while serving my country.
I have been shot twice, also while serving my country.
I have come close, one time as a civilian, to using my “tactical black handgun†for defense, and like most people, I exercised good judgment and restraint… while my front sight hovered in front of his chest my finger never entered the trigger guard
I have been stabbed as a civilian and whished to God I had my handgun or a knife with me!

Like I said I agree that most of life’s challenges are solved with intellect and money. However, if we look at your argument (the original post) and take it a step further we could argue that the antis are right. You are extremely unlikely to ever need a firearm let alone your tricked out “tactical†(I love that word ) 5 inch custom .45! You really don’t even NEED a gun, let alone a “tactical†one! In fact you ARE actually MUCH MORE likely to SHOOT YOURSELF with your own gun than if you didn’t own one, right!!

What concerns me in how we advocate self-reliance and preparedness. We advocate, here, the right to carry a gun and use it in defense… but we suddenly become wildly outraged when someone says they would rush to the aid of a stranger who is being raped and beaten; or God Forbid someone would actually put forward the idea that they would clear their own home!! People clamour that we are exposing ourselves to the threat of litigation, bodily harm, incarcerated, death… Just move to a safe place and dial 911! That is what I hear from the left! You don’t need a handgun just a cell phone and a rape whistle!!

WildAlaska wrote:
rather you should do what a normal, reasonable person will do...get on that cell phone and call 911..let those who are paid to get shot at get shot at...

That’s why the guys in the services get soooo much more money than the rest of us civilians ($18,000 a year for me at the height of my public service in the Army). That’s why LEOs are willing to risk being shot, because they get ALL the money!!
What!??!?!

Now am I saying that if I saw guys running out of the bank with Aks and body armour that I too would charge in and confront them with my water pistol? Hell No!!
However… I do lots of things I am not paid to do…

So you guys are saying don’t carry a “tactical†looking pistol… don’t have a “tactical†shotgun for home defense don’t carry pre-ban mags (how do you think those will appear to a trial lawyer and a liberal jury. “The defendant had this evil black death dealing machine loaded with “clips†the likes of which have been BANNED under federal law!! The defendant even paid 4-5 times as much money for these “clips†just so that he had enough evil Teflon coated cop killer bullets to MURDER poor defenseless Rapist Bobâ€. Don’t even think of going to investigate the bump in your basement at night!! You are crazy you might get hurt, you could get sued!!

I put my seatbelt on religiously and purchased a vehicle that not only had ABS, front and side airbags but one that had side CURTAIN air bags. Does this mean that I exit my driveway HOPING and WANTING to crash into someone… to think I even took a defensive driving course!
I do exit my driving HOPING and WANTING the airbags to deploy if a do happen to be unlucky enough to crash.

I carry a black tactical handgun loaded with the most devastating rounds that fits in the chamber, I carry the most evil looking knife I can find (maybe the sight of it will be enough…) If your mother, wife, daughter or sister is being raped and beaten by a gang of scum bags you can rest assured I AM going to open myself to the possibility of litigation and bodily harm, even though I am not getting paid for it, you know it might even cost me money!! Oh well I am enough of a Rambo I will still try to help her. When I hear someone coming through a window in my home you can bet I am going to grab my gun and implement an ambush, even if he bought two friends with him! I assure you the intruder in my home should be more afraid of me than I am about him! Litigation be damned!

In the end of course we should plan and train for the worst case scenario but pray and hope for the best.

Could someone here give me a hand to get down off this soap box… I have a bad knee

Regards,
HS/LD

BTW what te hell is wrong with the word tactical?
Lets ban it! It might offend someone!
Note: The word “TACTICAL†was used 13 times in this post!

 

[Nosferatu]

Just to pose a question of training and tactics, from a different perspective, as well as (from what I can understand) help part of the point I think Wildalaska is trying to get at; How many of you take devensive driving or similar courses that might save you life by avoiding an auto accident? I have a feeling we all drive a lot more than we get attacked. Why not put your focus on what statistically is more likely to happen? Die in a car wreck vs. die by an armed attacker.

 

[triggertime]

RE: Wildalaska

"I'm sorry you are so angry....."

Why paint someone as being angry just because they've chosen to participate in an intellectual debate? Because of their writing style? That would be stereotyping again, wouldn't it?

 

[Navy joe]

What if? Your answers to your what ifs should dictate what you carry, where you go, how you act. If you ask some inane what if, that's your problem. I don't care if 30 rabid micro hottentots crawl out of your shower drain and attack you in your sleep. Your problem buddy.

For me, my what ifs say a lot. I live in a sprawling urban area, travel at odd times due to work schedules, sometime go shooping at 3am while the world sleeps. I travel alone, most trouble comes in a pack. Better yet, my home is separated from my job by 3 miles of water. I can't legally carry where I work, Federal Gov property. Better yet, I've recognized since before the Africa embassy bombings that it is a spiffy terrorist target.
The sum is I leave home with the expectation that I might not be able to go home at night, maybe never. When I go away for the weekends, it's the same, maybe I won't be able to come back. I usually go away on all the big holidays, some family is near DC, another great target.

So when I'm on base, 2-4 knives on car or in person, right now my hunting pack is still in the trunk. Sep 12, 2001 I got to work on foot two hours late, two hours before most everyone else, carrying a 40lb pack w/ gas mask, filter attached. Because ya never know.
When I can, there is a pistol with a reload on me, one with at least two mags in the glovebox and a rifle in the trunk. Last weekend the rifle had 5 mags and 260 rds in the bag with it. That all went to Maryland with me (highly illegal). If I felt it really necessary a gun might end up in the car while on base.

I don't do the batman belt thing, but I see nothing Rambo-esque about having a gun and reloads available. If it's a lo-cap gun I usually have a min. of 18 rds. on me, the hi-cap 9mm usually I have just carried with one reload for 34 rounds total. 2 pocketknives don't add an undue burden. The flashlights stay in the car, no mace, ninja batons or anything. If I was good with an ASP I'd sure carry one though.

Most of my sights are pretty snag free, I like the P35 and 1911 variants sans guide rod for their utility in one handed loading, charging, etc.

 

[Navy joe]

You never read about the kung fu master getting into a fight in a bar on Saturday night.

There's a reason for that. If you replay the film on slow speed you will see the local newspaper hack sipping swill at the end of the bar. Every film I've seen the kung-fu master cleans out every fool in the bar. Reporter unavailable for comment.

 

[Yohan]

Sir, I'm afraid I shall have to flame!

If there's a guy with an ice pick coming into my car- I believe I shall perform a tactical reload just to show the guy I mean business, and the extra mags? In case my hands shake too much to perform a high speed reload, I'll just pick them up and throw it at him

 

[MountainPeak]

You do not have to be Rambo to provide adequate defense for yourself and family. You don't have to be a stalking, gunwielding wanna be killer because you are trained in self defense firearms. You don't have to be a chalkmark victim, so some wanna be Columbo can break yours or a family members murder case. You can legally protect yourself by training and awareness of your surroundings. Trust me, most cops are much better in the chalk mark scenerio. They know it, and anyone with half a brain knows it. Don't buy into that they can protect you. They can't and seldom do. It isn't that they wouldn't like to, it just doesn't work that way. Protect yourself. Those that they "protect and serve" are left to fend for themselves. They are allowed to protect thier own families. Every wonder if more LEO groups would support CCW if they already didn't have the right for CCW for their own selves and loved ones? WEll?

 

[Sweatnbullets]

There are many disturbing posts here, not only from the original poster, but, also from many of people agreeing with the thread starter.

Even though, I feel there has been a fantastic job of thoroughly truncing your very narrow opinion, I feel there is a need to point out one more flaw in your thinking. It is what I would call your elitist/seperatist/turncoat gunowner mindset .

I don't care if you shoot skeet, trap, cowboy action shooting, IDPA, benchrest, or you just hunt. It does not matter to me if you have a CCW, or you carry in your car. I have no problem with you if your home defense weapon is a .22 revolver unloaded and locked in your closet, or it's a fully loaded 590A1 tucked under your bed. I could care the least if you have never trained, or if you have taken six courses in the last two months at Blackwater, Storm Mountain, and Thunder Ranch. It is no concern of mine if you train with a combat mindset, or you shoot for fun. And I could give a flying frick if you would never shoot in self defense, would only protect yourself or your loved ones, or if you feel the need to step in and protect a third party.

The only thing that matters to me is if you are Pro-gun or you are Anti-gun, this is a black and white issue, there is no gray. Sitting on the fence means you are an Anti. The attitude that you are the one to make the decision of what is an acceptable use, application, or type of a firearm, frankly, disgusts me!

We are all gun owners, if not we wouldn't be on this forum. Why in the he!! can't we stop with this "seperation of acceptability" BS! The Anti's tactic has always been "divide and conquere," Well we already took care of the "divide" for them. When is this stupidity going to end.

If you are a supporter of the Second Amendment, you must support it fully, not just the parts that applies to you. Everytime you talk smack about someone elses sport, hobby, training, mindset, or the type of weapon they own, shoot ,or carry you are striking a blow to our gun rights. We need to all be on tha same team and fully support the right to bear arms, in whatever form that may be.

Feel free to flame this rant, but just remember, as soon as you do you will be identified as the turncoat that you are.

edited because I can't type