Really Hornady....shhhh it's a secret

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Bentnail63

Bentnail63

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So i am looking at building loads for 7.62x39 and I have been given Hornady SST #3142 123gr bullets. So in my research of the bullets, I have looked and scoured the WWW, Hornady loading book, and Hornady website looking for the actual Length of the bullet, Ogive, and other normal information. I notice that Hornady doe NOT like to give out very much in the specifications about their bullets. This is one of the reasons I try not to buy any bullets from Hornady due to their sercretive nature for the "Normal" information or Specifications of the bullets. In fact the amount of info on the bullets is really appauling to what they share out. Really find this to be lacking in them. I can measure with my Micrometer and translate but would like to be able to verify what I am readying is correct. Now I am not asking for the metalurgical and chemical breakdown of the metals and compositions, just hormal data like lenght of bullet, actuall diameter, what is the distance to the cannelure from the base, depth of the cannelure. Just more and more why I stay clear of their bullets and buy other manufacturers bullets since they give that information out. I find their load book most of the time worthless as they only make bullets for certain grains and not all and only cover their bullets. Their book sits in the back corner of my bookshelf.

So is there a publication out there that states all this? This kinda of boggles my mind that this company is suppose to be a TOP tier bullet as well as other aspects of the shooting but so secretive that they wont share or publish the Norms of information. I have been up to SAAMI looking but that covers the standards for the said cartridge and throat in the rifle standards.

I am done with my rant....
 
You should look in the 7th Addition of the Ammo Encyclopia. It should help
 
dgod said:
You should look in the 7th Addition of the Ammo Encyclopia. It should help
Click to expand...
Oh?!?! I have looked at that and thought about that book. I will get that book then, if it list those items that is sacred or believed sacred. Grins
 
Bentnail63 said:
So i am looking at building loads for 7.62x39 and I have been given Hornady SST #3142 123gr bullets. So in my research of the bullets, I have looked and scoured the WWW, Hornady loading book, and Hornady website looking for the actual Length of the bullet, Ogive, and other normal information. I notice that Hornady doe NOT like to give out very much in the specifications about their bullets. This is one of the reasons I try not to buy any bullets from Hornady due to their sercretive nature for the "Normal" information or Specifications of the bullets. In fact the amount of info on the bullets is really appauling to what they share out. Really find this to be lacking in them. I can measure with my Micrometer and translate but would like to be able to verify what I am readying is correct. Now I am not asking for the metalurgical and chemical breakdown of the metals and compositions, just hormal data like lenght of bullet, actuall diameter, what is the distance to the cannelure from the base, depth of the cannelure. Just more and more why I stay clear of their bullets and buy other manufacturers bullets since they give that information out. I find their load book most of the time worthless as they only make bullets for certain grains and not all and only cover their bullets. Their book sits in the back corner of my bookshelf.

So is there a publication out there that states all this? This kinda of boggles my mind that this company is suppose to be a TOP tier bullet as well as other aspects of the shooting but so secretive that they wont share or publish the Norms of information. I have been up to SAAMI looking but that covers the standards for the said cartridge and throat in the rifle standards.

I am done with my rant....
Click to expand...
Another alternative is to PIF them (Pay It Forward) to someone who really wants them and just resolve to never buy or accept another bullet made by Hornady.
 
Bentnail63 said:
looking for the actual Length of the bullet, Ogive, and other normal information.
Click to expand...

Berger is the only manufacturer I’ve ever seen publish this information.

Hornady is not unique in not publishing this. You’re barking up the wrong tree here.

The rest of us live just fine in the real world picking OAL’s either based on the book values or doing proper reloading methods to determine appropriate OAL’s based on mag length and chamber leade.
 
sparkyv said:
I like Hornady bullets. They are an excellent value / performance compromise projectile. I determine the headspace for each bullet model in my firearms, and Bob's your uncle...the reloading mystery is gone.
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Yes but it seems like sometimes “free” components are the most expensive because they require more work.

To me, Hornady is a compromise bullet. My preference is for Speer to save costs and just get the job done; but they’re more work to make hard shots. If I don’t mind spending a little more and just hit the easy button I look for Sierra’s bullet.

But I know for a fact that both Sierra and Speer have their detractors. I see that as not so much a problem as a condition.
 
lordpaxman said:
I’m not sure I understand the issue. Several of the bullet makers don’t publish a lot more information than weight and diameter. When I get a bullet I measure a few key parameters I need and note that.
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Varminterror said:
Hornady is not unique in not publishing this. You’re barking up the wrong tree here.
Click to expand...

Varmint beat me to it....

Not unlike canister grade powders that we buy, there is enough lot-to-lot variation in bullets that any specifications any manufacturer would give would be general in nature, in most cases. I've seen lot differences between the same bullets... in weight, length, and cannelure position. If you want that data, buy as large a lot of those specific bullets as you can, measure them out... and run with it.


sparkyv said:
I like Hornady bullets. They are an excellent value / performance compromise projectile.
Click to expand...

+1. I've never reached the accuracy expectations from Hornady rifle bullets that I do from it's close competitors, primarily Sierra and Nosler, but they do make quality bullets at a reasonable price that seem to be available when others are not. Their generic FMJ rifle bullets... .224" and .308", et al, are easily the most accurate bulk bullets available that I've seen, at least in my limited experience, when compared apples to apples with other budget bullets.
 
>99% of the world cannot shoot the difference between Hornady ELD/A-max or A-Tip bullets and Berger Target or Vapor Trail bullets, especially in factory rifles. Hornady hunting bullets do what they’re meant to do. Affordable, available, and good enough for the Everyman.
 
Bentnail63 said:
... I notice that Hornady doe NOT like to give out very much in the specifications about their bullets. This is one of the reasons I try not to buy any bullets from Hornady due to their sercretive nature for the "Normal" information or Specifications of the bullets. In fact the amount of info on the bullets is really appauling to what they share out. Really find this to be lacking in them. I can measure with my Micrometer and translate but would like to be able to verify what I am readying is correct. Now I am not asking for the metalurgical and chemical breakdown of the metals and compositions, just hormal data like lenght of bullet, actuall diameter, what is the distance to the cannelure from the base, depth of the cannelure. Just more and more why I stay clear of their bullets and buy other manufacturers bullets since they give that information out.
Click to expand...
Amen. Compare the Hornady info to what Berger puts on their site below. Is it really that hard Hornady? Do we really have to buy a box of them just to find out the basics?

I show the bullet length for Hornady #3142 to be 0.965" but I'm not positive because I can't go to the manufacturer's site to verify it.

BergerData.JPG
 
FROGO207 said:
Their 170 grain 30-30 bullet was the most accurate with 3031 in all my 30-30's. Expanded best without comming apart excessively too.
Click to expand...
The bagged Gen 1 125gr Golden Sabers were the most accurate .38Spl and 9mm bullets I found for a good price before they got replaced. Not bonded and they tended to come apart if run at max 357 speeds. But really good for a .38.

I never had a bad thing to say about the Core-Lokt bullets - except that they’re not available.
 
Rimfire McNutjob said:
Compare the Hornady info to what Berger puts on their site below.
Click to expand...

Sierra does not publish that info either. Nosler does not. Speer does not. Vapor Trail does not. Cutting Edge does not. Lapua does not. Swift does not. Barnes does not.

Berger does. That’s it. Just silly to criticize Hornady over not publishing something that NOBODY publishes, except one exclusion.

Having that info from Berger is worth nothing to anyone but a wildcatter, designing a case length to match a mag length for a given bullet. For someone shooting known cartridges, there’s nothing which can be found from that info of any importance - which is why none of those 9 other major bullet manufacturers don’t publish it.
 
They should all publish that info. I'm kind of surprised to find you in the "more information is bad" camp because you often sound like a process engineer to me. How hard is it ... really. It's a web site. Are their processes so crappy that they're not sure how long their bullets are going to be at any point in time? Are they too busy ripping off Berger or Sierra bullets (AeroMatch) or the Henderson trimmer to bother?

Jason: Dad, I've got a great idea. We should provide less information to reloaders. We shouldn't even put it in the manuals that they pay for.

Steve: Yeah, if they want to know, they can buy the darn things. We'll save the ink that would have been used in the books or the bits that would have been used on the web.

Joyce: <rolls over in grave>

I know I'm picking on Hornady, but they should be leaders in the space. Do you know how many boxes of bullets I've had to buy to find out the length, the distance to the cannelure / crimp groove, or the distance from the meplat to the beginning of the ogive for some of the stuff I load? One box of 50 NorthFork .458 350 grain FP's is $110 before shipping ... just so I can put a caliper to it and know whether it's usable in my gun. At least the Swift Bullet guy answers the phone and puts the lengths up. But he didn't know where the crimp groove was without digging out a drawing. One box of 50 .458 400 grain A-Frame/FN's ... $107.

You're probably loading modern stuff with modern high BC bullets. Bullets where the engagement surface is a mile long and you can move the thing in and out of the neck like you're playing an accordion.

Sorry, but I'm an EE. I'm used to looking at semiconductor datasheets. If you don't put everything on there, you are NOT going to sell a lot of them to people designing electronics. I'm not going to call you to ask what the gate threshold voltage of your N-channel MOSFET is ... I'm going to use the part where the guy put it in the datasheet for me. I'm jaded in the direction of more info is better.

MosfetSnippet.JPG
 
Rimfire McNutjob said:
They should all publish that info.
Click to expand...

Why should they? It’s not pertinent information for 99.999% of their customers.

I don’t see the data included on that MOSFET spec sheet for length/height/width dimensions, casing color, or weight, nor any information regarding pin material or dimensions, nor any mounting/attachment flanges. They must be hiding something, and are a terrible representation of the industry… 🙄
 
codytrucker said:
Hornady's cartridge and bullet illustration's are shown actual size in their manual's. You can get out your micrometer and measure them as much as you want to .
Click to expand...
They do not match in my books. Not close enough. The picture of a #4502, for example, measures a diameter of 0.424" for me. Funny though, the cartridge drawings have all of the pertinent measurements in thousandth's of an inch ... printed. Granted, I need a magnifier these days to read them.
 
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