Reasonably priced traditional Muzzleloading rifle

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Al-jim19

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Hey guys,

I’m in the market for a reasonably priced Muzzleloading rifle. It will be used for a few things:
- Range use. Gotta be fun.
- Hunting white tail and other critters. Doesn’t have to be too beautiful since it’ll be in the New England woods. Would prefer percussion caps rather than flint but I’m open to flint.
- Looking cool. If it doesn’t look cool and make me feel like a mountain man/18th-19th century revolutionary it ain’t worth it. I realize the historical timeline is a little off given percussion caps, but you guys get the gist.

THR - my wallet is in your hands. Would prefer to stay under $400-$500 since it’s my first BP gun. Less would be ideal.
 
You may get lucky and find an old CVA or Thompson. Many were fired very little but many were also not cleaned properly or at all resulting in damaged bores.
 
Its really sad how muzzleloader hunting has degenerated from using traditional style weapons into a sea of "how much can we game the system" with inline ignition, stainless steel, plastic stocks, fiber optic sights, plastic sabot JHP projectiles. If I was running the wildlife department, the only modern items I would permit would be some styles of 210 primer nipple adapters (maybe), some types of black powder substitutes, and some modern all lead projectiles (Maxi-ball, etc.). Everything else would not look out of place for a 18th or 19th century hunter.
 
.455_Hunter said:
Its really sad how muzzleloader hunting has degenerated from using traditional style weapons into a sea of "how much can we game the system" with inline ignition, stainless steel, plastic stocks, fiber optic sights, plastic sabot JHP projectiles. If I was running the wildlife department, the only modern items I would permit would be some styles of 210 primer nipple adapters (maybe), some types of black powder substitutes, and some modern all lead projectiles (Maxi-ball, etc.). Everything else would not look out of place for a 18th or 19th century hunter.
Click to expand...
Just to chime in on this point...

I’ve never fired a muzzle loader. It took a lot of thought for me to decide on whether or not I wanted to go with a traditional style or modern gun to “game the system”. I really want to make a humane kill if the time comes, and I strongly considered a modern rifle. Could you blame me for wanting something that makes it easier, considering I’ve never loaded a gun from the business end?

I dedcided on a traditional gun because I plan to practice a lot and I like the historical aspect, but I would never fault ANYONE for selecting something that’s as forgiving as possible.
 
My view is that if you want to hunt with a "modern" muzzle loader, go ahead, but that should occur in the standard rifle season. One you are comfortable with the process, you can purchase a traditional styled weapon and enjoy the perks of the dedicated muzzle loader season (low density of hunters and less spooked game).
 
.455_Hunter said:
Its really sad how muzzleloader hunting has degenerated from using traditional style weapons into a sea of "how much can we game the system" with inline ignition, stainless steel, plastic stocks, fiber optic sights, plastic sabot JHP projectiles. If I was running the wildlife department, the only modern items I would permit would be some styles of 210 primer nipple adapters (maybe), some types of black powder substitutes, and some modern all lead projectiles (Maxi-ball, etc.). Everything else would not look out of place for a 18th or 19th century hunter.
Click to expand...
Iowa was traditional muzzle loaders only. The DNR pushed for modern muzzle loaders to increase revenue.
 
.455_Hunter said:
My view is that if you want to hunt with a "modern" muzzle loader, go ahead, but that should occur in the standard rifle season. One you are comfortable with the process, you can purchase a traditional styled weapon and enjoy the perks of the dedicated muzzle loader season (low density of hunters and less spooked game).
Click to expand...
You may be surprised to hear that there is no rifle season for deer where I live, but there is a “primitive” firearms season.

I could be wrong but the only thing you can hunt with a center fire rifle here are bear and predators.
 
Try to find a used Lyman like the GP rifle mentioned. Or a Lyman trade rifle. Any of the Cabelas Hawkens are made by the same people and excellent guns. The Traditions are OK guns and will serve but unless you are short or plan to wear a heavy coat the Traditions are sometimes short in LOP.

You can find the guns mentioned on Gunbroker and be sure and ask the seller about the condition of the bore and best see if they have pictures with a bore light dropped down the bore. And I really endorse the Cabelas Hawkens. I have two now and have owned a couple of others. All were very good guns for the price.

Where do you hunt that no centerfire rifles are allowed? And don't worry, lots of Mountain Man guns were percussion cap rifles.
 
Ratshooter said:
Try to find a used Lyman like the GP rifle mentioned. Or a Lyman trade rifle. Any of the Cabelas Hawkens are made by the same people and excellent guns. The Traditions are OK guns and will serve but unless you are short or plan to wear a heavy coat the Traditions are sometimes short in LOP.

Where do you hunt that no centerfire rifles are allowed? And don't worry, lots of Mountain Man guns were percussion cap rifles.
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Thankfully I’m sorta short! MA does not have a rifle deer season. Archery, Shotgun, and primitive firearms only.
 
Percussion guns are better to start with, but once you shoot a flinter, you'll want one. Ditto on the Lyman Great Plains; A used Traditions would be a good deal, too. I am 6' and have no problems with the LOP on my Deerstalker.
 
That percussion gun at Bud's Gun Shop is a two piece stock. They do that so they can use shorter wood to make a full stock rifle. In my eyes, that's tacky. That said, it's OK as a starter and you have to start somewhere.
 
For just a little more you can buy this and its brand new so no issues with a bad bore. This price is just a slight bit more than the same gun used. A lyman trade rifle like I mentioned earlier. No patch box, I never used mine for anything and would prefer not to have it. A single trigger instead of a set trigger. Set triggers are good for target shooting but not needed for a hunting gun. These are made by Investarms, the same people that make the Lyman GP rifle. It has the same lock. A 1/48 twist that works fine with RB or conicals in spite of what some may tell you. If I were in the market for my first BP rifle this is what I would buy. Matter of fact I pretty much did when I bought my first Cabelas rifle. They are the same gun with a few small differences. Just a suggestion.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/780819425
 
Lots of Lyman fans here and they are great rifles certainly. I’ve also owned two of the cabelas Hawken rifles and one Cabelas.58 carbine that I never should have sold. For your purposes though, and with your budget I would look for a Thompson Center Seneca or Cherokee in .45 caliber. It will shoot Maxiballs or other.45 caliber bullets well enough for woods whitetails, the sights available, including peep sights, are very good imo, easy to wring accuracy from it. At the range with lighter loads and roundball it’s a really fun gun, very mild mannered. And while it’s not very period correct, it is a beautiful little rifle, well balanced, reminds me of a Model 94 Winchester in the hand.
 
.455_Hunter said:
Its really sad how muzzleloader hunting has degenerated from using traditional style weapons into a sea of "how much can we game the system" with inline ignition, stainless steel, plastic stocks, fiber optic sights, plastic sabot JHP projectiles.
Click to expand...

Al-jim19 said:
Just to chime in on this point...

I dedcided on a traditional gun because I plan to practice a lot and I like the historical aspect, but I would never fault ANYONE for selecting something that’s as forgiving as possible.
Click to expand...


I can see both sides of this, and actually sympathize with both. I find that my opinion has changed a bit the older I get.
I currently own a newer inline ML. It's a CVA Optima Elite with a 3-9x40 scope on it. The last deer I shot with it was at 180 yards and the Powerbelt bullet landed exactly where the crosshairs were when I pulled the trigger.
I viewed a ML as simply a tool. Nothing more or less. It allowed me to be in the woods for 2 weeks longer than usual.
The sporting aspect didn't enter my mind. The only thing I considered was putting venison in my freezer and boy, this thing will do that.

However, the older I get the more I appreciate the tools of the past. The next time I go ML hunting, I will be carrying an old Hawken style rifle in .58 caliber loaded with a patched round ball and real black powder.

I remember when inline MLs first got popular. You could find old Hawkens and Kentucky rifles in the pawn shops for $75-$100 all day long. If only I had known then, I would have a dozen of them.

I like the full stock rifles. I think the one you linked to is great and should be a decent value for $350.

Let us know what you get. We love pics around here.
 
Just getting back into this with a gifted rifle. If I were looking as you my choice for a 1st rifle would be the Lyman Great Plains or the Lyman Trade Rifle. I built my 1st one from a collection of parts but I had a neighbor who was into BP guns and hunting and had a custom 54 flinter he loved. He taught me a lot and helped me with the build with info. If I hadn't had him around I think the LTR would have been my choice. I loved the LGPR too and still do especially with the 1-66 twist rifling. For me the patched ball and getting close for a sure kill is the name of the game. The LTR gives you a choice of PRB or a maxi-ball. Maxi will extend the effective range some if you get to know your rifle. Traditional BP can be addicting for the younger set and once it is it will always be in your blood to one degree or another.
 
I'm not sure who actually makes it, but my wife bought me a Cabelas branded Hawken about 20'years ago and it has served me very well. The quality is outstanding. Also look for used Thompson Center.
 
Al-jim19 said:
THR - my wallet is in your hands. Would prefer to stay under $400-$500 since it’s my first BP gun. Less would be ideal.
Click to expand...
The Lyman, Great Plains Rifle is a very good factory rifle, in a half-stocked, traditional pattern. Here's what they run new https://www.lymanproducts.com/brands/lyman/muzzle-loaders/great-plains-rifle.html But you can find them for about $100 cheaper if you search the internet.

The other option is a .54 caliber long rifle, from Pedersoli, sold as Cabela's, Blue Ridge Hunter. The come in flintlock https://www.cabelas.com/product/Pedersoli-Blue-Ridge-Flintlock-Rifles/1608552.uts and for a little bit less, they come in caplock https://www.cabelas.com/product/Pedersoli-Blue-Ridge-Percussion-Rifles/1608547.uts?slotId=3. I think the Lyman is a better rifle, but if you want a long rifle the BRH from Cabela's will do just fine.

Ah but don't fret...., you can get a new, Lyman, Trade Rifle, for under $500 in .54 caliber from Dixie Gun Works https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index...duct_name/PR0653+Lyman+Trade+Rifle+-+.54+Perc. You should find it easy to carry and handle in the woods, accurate, and with lots of knock-down power. ;):thumbup:

LD
 
Once again, lots of opinions. I too would go with a Great Plains rifle. I would also stay away from Traditions, keep in mind you get what you pay for. For the price the GPR gives the most bang for the buck in quality and style.
 
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