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Recent active shooter incident in AR has me reassessing my ccw choices

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by R.W.Dale, Sep 14, 2011.

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  1. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    As some of you may be aware Tuesday there was an active shooter incident here in Arkansas. This one struck a little close to home for me as my father works at the locale where this happened (he was out at the time)

    As a recent chl licencee I really didn't place too much priority into the possibility of finding myself in a gunfight. Rather I viewed my chl as a freedom exercise and possibly a useful tool against a dog attack or some other situation that seemed more likely to me. In fact I wondered if I was even being unduley paranoid for even carrying. Then Tuesday happened!

    Now I'm not so sure my short inaccurate seven shot pf9 I edc In a pocket is as useful as I thought it was. Now I feel compelled to carry a full sized handgun if at all possible. To carry those spare mags I used to scoff at you guys suggesting and to train for speed and accuracy at every oppurtunity.

    Yesterday I learned it CAN happen to you or a loved one and you'd for damn sure be better off ready for it if it does
     
  2. Deaf Smith

    Deaf Smith Member

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    Dale,

    First off carry the most powerful gun you can shoot well and still conceal. Do that anyway regardless of any 'active shooter'.

    And then make sure you have an excellent first aid kit and training to use it.

    For you see, you are far more likely to see it happen at a distance and get there in time to help people than to actually be involved in the fight.

    There are some companies that teach battlefield medic courses. I'd look into that to.

    Deaf
     
  3. Resist Evil

    Resist Evil Member

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    It seems good that the gravity of actually needing your self defense tool, and if it's good enough, has happened without the event actually happening to you.

    There are likely many who will post that they have similar pistols to yours that they feel are perfectly adequate to the self defense task. Everyone has a different idea about this. I carry the largest pistol caliber in the best-sized package that I can carry and shoot well for about 98% of the time. The remaining time I use a .38spl revolver.

    You'll figure it out. The bottom line is that it's better to have any gun than not when you need to use one.
     
  4. wideym

    wideym Member

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    Carrying a full sized pistol is great, as long as you carry something. It seems that active shooters seem to give up or shoot themselves when someone fires back at them.
     
  5. MrM4

    MrM4 Member

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    PF9 Might not be enough, extra round are always good to have but being good with what ever you have counts for more then all the ammo you can carry. I either carry a Glock or a 1911 with extra mags on my person, Shotgun or Carbine in the truck. Be prepared to use your CCW and hope you never have to.
     
  6. Plan2Live

    Plan2Live Member

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    RWDale - I did a quick search and couldn't find any news articles relating to your post. Can you be more specific? What/where, etc?
     
  7. BCRider

    BCRider Member

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    Plan2Live, just google for "arkansas shooting". It's all over the first page of responses.


    I thought from my reading around here that the whole point of carrying is for self defense. Part of self defense is to use your gun as a tool to move away from the scene and not to promote the continuence of the conflict. If this means killing/wounding to stop the aggressor as you're moving away then so be it.

    So I guess it becomes a question of being caught in such a situation. Proper tactics would suggest that if someone opened fire like this your job is to get you and your loved ones around a corner or other obstruction and away from the shooter. Once you do that you have some control over any engagement if he comes after you and yours by staying closer to the corner or feature where your gun is just as effective as his at the range you set up. It's about controlling the situation you're in so that you have an even if not upper hand. But mostly I suspect it's your job to just leave with you and yours as quickly as practical.

    If you think of your role in this manner do you still need a big gun and spare mags?

    But it's highly unlikely anymore since I'm sure courthouses all over the nation will bar guns from entering after this occurence.
     
  8. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    Don't misunderstanding its not so much the exact cirstumstances of this shooting that have prompted me to look at this but rather that it happened at all.

    This was a courthouse shooting. But it could have just as easily been a restaurant or workplace event.
     
  9. Bobson

    Bobson Member

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    This is the right attitude. If you're going to carry a concealed gun, you don't need to limit yourself to a gun the size of your fist. There are holster designs out there that will allow you to conceal a duty-sized weapon, and conceal it well. You'll probably need to adjust your wardrobe, but for those who are truly willing to be that sheepdog, a change of clothes is a small sacrifice.

    I admire your willingness to consider new options, if nothing else.
     
  10. GojuBrian

    GojuBrian Member

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    Guns aren't allowed in many places here in Arkansas including courthouses.
    The shooter must not have been impressed with this law, but I'll bet there was someone there not carrying because of this idiotic law.
     
  11. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    My father would be one such case
     
  12. Plan2Live

    Plan2Live Member

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    This is one of those topics like "which caliber is better" that can only be answered by the individual. I personally lean toward the theory of carrying the biggest gun with the largest capacity that you can use well and conceal well. But others will choose to go light and easy. If you go your entire life and never pull your weapon then light and easy would have been the best choice. On the other hand, if you are involved in an event and you need a bigger caliber or more rounds and you don't have them, well we can only theorize how that one would come out.
     
  13. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    Just ask Suzanna Hupp about that feeling.. (1991, Luby's Cafeteria in Kileen, Texas.)
     
  14. MICHAEL T

    MICHAEL T Member

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    7 rounds mine holds 8 when full loaded You do carry loaded right. Inaccurate I was doing head shots at 12 to 13 yds on a normal police B-27? target by 2nd mag. Their far from inaccurate I used the finger rest on mag(doesn't effect concealment ). With out my groups open some But still good enough for SD . carry a 2nd mag if worried about ammo. .
     
  15. Bobson

    Bobson Member

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    Wasn't Ms. Hupp the sheepdog who stopped that shooter?
     
  16. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Member

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    She managed to escape the restaurant but both of her parents died. Although she had a gun (it was outside in her car) she wasn't carrying because, at the time, there was essentially no legal way to carry in TX. She became a TX legislator and was instrumental in bringing concealed carry to TX.
     
  17. Bobson

    Bobson Member

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    Gotcha, thanks.
     
  18. chris in va

    chris in va Member

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    I recently realized that I can't shoot my G21SF nearly as well as my CZ 75BD, so despite the weight and caliber disadvantage, I will be carrying the CZ from now on when possible.
     
  19. kayak-man

    kayak-man Member

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    I agree 100%

    There are some good Tactical First Aid classes out there, but I haven't had a chance to take one yet (I want to, Oh, I really want to). If you have a hard time finding one nearby, I'd suggest looking into the NOLS Wilderness First Responder course. It may be more indepth than what most people are looking for, and it does cover more than just trauma, but when you're done, you know that you can handle almost anything that gets thrown at you.

    Chris "the Kayak-Man" Johnson
     
  20. MCMXI

    MCMXI Member

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    This story caught my attention since I was in Little Rock last week. If I move there I'll be applying for a CC permit once the 90-day residency requirement has been fulfilled. As for what I'd carry, either a P220 Carry, P239 or 1911 Commander with at least two spare magazines. If I had a CC permit, I'd carry a firearm every day, no doubt about it.
     
  21. MCMXI

    MCMXI Member

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    By the way, even if you have a CC permit and carry a handgun religiously, if you were in that courthouse at the time of the shooting, you wouldn't have a firearm with you if you were complying with the law in AR.
     
  22. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    True

    But as I said earlier its not so much the particulars of this incident which BTW had a miraculous outcome . But again that it happened at all. It was a courthouse this time, whose to say next time it wont be a disgruntled wall mart employee or that a little too quiet coworker you always wondered about. I'm talking about this not to convince others to change anything, I'm merely writing about this to show how its changed MY views.
     
  23. MCMXI

    MCMXI Member

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    I agree 100% with everything you've said and can understand how this situation has make you reevaluate your "system" for protecting yourself and/or others. I would add that situational awareness is critical too. That might mean choosing a specific table at a restaurant, parking in an inconvenient spot, crossing the street to put distance between you and a group of strangers, knowing where the exits are etc.

    I have recurring nightmares in which my life is in danger from some form of threat. I have a firearm with me in the dream but no ammunition. :eek: Being in that courthouse as a CC holder but having my pistol in the car would be similar.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2011
  24. Lawdawg45

    Lawdawg45 Member

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    R.W.Dale,

    You've posted what many of us are struggling with that CC in society. For me, the debate was between my Ruger LCP and my J-Frame for everyday carry, but the argument was settled at the range. Even with the J-Frame having 2 less rounds, the presence of real sights gave me the ability to place kill shots at 25 yards with no problem. The LCP just wasn't accurate enough and the lower powered round combined with the jam factor moved it to the bottom of my carry list. In LE and self defense classes we used to teach about a "threat level assessment" and how to dress/arm yourself, but many of the places formerly low on the list (grocery store, church, gas station, fast food) have become prime choices for shooters. Again, carry what you're consistently deadly with and a minimum of 2 reloads.;)

    LD45
     
  25. HexHead

    HexHead Member

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    You might want to swap that LCP for a S&W Bodyguard .380. It has real sights.
     
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