Recommend a good all-around defensive rifle (if I can't get an AR/M4)?

[skyhorse]

In California we just throw insults and old gun locks at each other!

Actually, I agree with Art Eastman. The SKS. I wanted to hate this rifle and sell it when it gained value. I ended up liking it....Alot!

Training and experience is more usefull than anything else in my humble opinion.

Happy new year eveyone!

 

[Landric]

I really don't see the M1 Garand being the ban list if such a list comes to pass. It doesn't use a detachable magazine, it isn't capable of holding more than ten rounds fully loaded, it doesn't have a pistol grip, a flash suppressor, or any other "evil" feature except a bayonet lug. The only way the Garand would fall victim to a ban if it was on all semi-automatics regardless of features. Plus, the CMP will send one right to your door for about $525.

I wouldn't suggest a M1 for indoor home defense, the .30-06 has way too much oomph and blast for indoor use (though obviously it could be pressed into service inside, it is far from ideal). However, as an overall defensive semi-automatic rifle it has plenty of utility.

I have a couple of ARs, so my Garand isn't really a defensive weapon for me, but I do have it available with a couple of loaded clips should push come to shove. I use a 9mm SBR AR with a suppressor for home defense, to me the blast from a 5.56mm is just too much for indoor defense use and I don't, as of yet, have a rifle rated suppressor.

I have always wanted Ruger to make a Mini-M1, you know, a 5.56mm that loads with a 10-round enbloc clip that ejects when the last round is fired. I'm afraid the only way that might come to pass is a new ban though.

If we are talking about a carbine for indoor use only, I'd also go with the .357 levergun recommendation.

 

[scotty45]

These are great thoughts, everyone...can't thank you enough for the feedback. I guess the issue is that I'm looking for a rifle to replace my want of an AR as a jack-of-all-trades rifle (home defense/possible hunting, lighter game like deer?/SHTF or bug out). Just an all-out void in my small collection that I've wanted and am terrified that a ban is going to prevent me from obtaining now.

The points posted since I said I fell in love with the M1A SOCOM made me realize that this caliber would be terrible for HD due to urban overpenetration and noise, plus I've not even fired it (unlike the AR platform), so I don't know if I'd "love it".

Also keeping with NATO ammo options would be wise in bad times, but I'd still lean towards a Winchester lever in 30-30 or could be persuaded to go with pistol caliber but I like 30-30 for indoor and outdoor. I guess the dang SOCOM costs enough to go Mini-14 and a lever gun, huh?

 

[dc.fireman]

An SKS might even be my first choice, but close behind would be a lever carbine in a pistol cartridge for home defense. I am partial to the .357 since I bought a Marlin 1894C many years ago and have had a ball making things dance with it, but a .44 would be just as useful at close range.

I'll second the motion!

 

[Warp]

While I have not shot either one without hearing protection...and don't plan to...I don't personally notice much difference in muzzle blast/flash/noise between my 16" barrel AR in 5.56 and my M1 Garand. 5.56/.223 is loud in its own right, after all.

I think there are a lot of better options for HD than a Garand...for example, I'd reach for an old fashion 12 gauge first, but for an all around rifle, for a person who is worried about a stupid ban actually happening...yeah, I could go for a Garand

Or a lever action in your cartridge of choice (perhaps .357, .44, or 30-30). Even more "ban proof" (though I believe there will be no ban), generally short, light, and easy to handle, pretty intuitive function, certainly powerful enough for HD and private citizen self defense, ammo that is easier to find than the semi auto calibers...

 

[1911 guy]

I was a new Dad just a few years ago. I was also laid off a few years ago. Money was tight, but I already had a respectable gun collection then, so my concerns were groceries and utility bills.

Were I in your position, I'd think carefully about balancing need with cost. I can agree we all need a decent centerfire rifle. However, you may not need it enough right now to justify the cost. Only you know exactly how much money you can really afford to spend on any given thing.

If the honest answer is "No", I'd suggest allocating what you CAN spend on the following:
good mags for the 1911
more mags for the 10/22
FMJ for the 1911
.22 rimfire by the brick. A few thousand rounds is a good start.
few hundred rounds of #5 or #6 shot for the 12 guage
case of 00 buck when you find it on sale
fifty or sixty slugs for the shotgun

If the answer, however, is "Yes", I'll second the recommendation of the SKS. Hard on the heels of that is a well made levergun in .357 Magnum.

 

[Ignition Override]

The SKS might never have the glamour and flexibility of the ARs (or the low muzzle-rise), but life is too short for some of us to be concerned with fashion.

But for an SKS with a chrome-lined bore, colorful and harder wood than the Norinco, the classic blade bayonet, why not a Russian if the price is reasonable?

 

[karlb]

I have a 336Y. 16" barrel, shorter stock. Most think it is a .22 when they see it because of it's size. In 30-30, it's a hard hitting, handy little unassuming rifle.

 

[powder]

Just an all-out void in my small collection that I've wanted and am terrified that a ban is going to prevent me from obtaining now.

Problem with "now" is that the AWB potential has pushed pricing to stratosphere already, IF you can even find it on the market?

Find your basic 12/20 guage that can interchange barrels for deer, fowl, HD/SD work. Super-affordable Ithaca Model 37s come to mind.

 

[nathan]

12 G shotgun, anytime and anyday the price remains the same. If you havent gotten an AR , dont fret. THe 12 g is no slouch. Plenty of ammo selection and doesnt cost much. THe WInchester SXP home defense is a nice package right now.

 

[CraigC]

Training and experience is more useful than anything else in my humble opinion.

Best post in the whole thread!

 

[ryoung1964]

The points posted since I said I fell in love with the M1A SOCOM made me realize that this caliber would be terrible for HD due to urban overpenetration and noise, plus I've not even fired it (unlike the AR platform), so I don't know if I'd "love it".


Unless you really are going to use all that rail space, I suggest a SOCOM16. Also, Hornady TAP FPD 110gr takes care of the over penetration concerns and is a devastating round.

Rich

P.S. stay way from m14forum.com, you'll become hopelessly addicted to the M14/M1A platform.

 

[Warp]

Edit: NVM, I get it now...

FYI: If you click the quote box in the bottom right of the post, and then click the "reply with quote" box, and then hit go advanced, you can get the forum to quote posts for you.



BTW, admin...when the heck will THR get an actual real life properly functional quote system?

 

[IlikeSA]

I have both a rifle and a shotgun for home defense. I keep the rifle locked up in a case and the shotgun by the bed. At night, how far do you think you will be able to shoot accurately with a rifle? Would a rifle be better than a shotgun inside a house?

 

[Warp]

At night, how far do you think you will be able to shoot accurately with a rifle?

As far as during the day, so long as the target is visible and identifiable.

Would a rifle be better than a shotgun inside a house?

Possibly.

I have a rifle ready in my house, and it ranks above the shotgun for home defense. It's lighter, shorter, easier to handle, will penetrate soft body armour, has quicker follow up shots, can be used outside and at range just as easily, if needed, is more precise, and probably penetrates items like walls no more than the shotgun

Here is a quick read on the topic: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=44869

 

[scotty45]

FMJ for the 1911

just re-read this and caught this fine print. Thanks for the sound advice but I am missing something here. What is the reasoning (tactically) for FMJ .45 ACP for defense?

I've got just under 200 rounds of Ranger T-Series now currently and almost that much in reserve for going to the range but are you saying there is value in shooting attackers for defensive purposes with FMJ as well? What about the "straight through them liability" factor?

Not questioning your advice, just clarifying what purpose you meant to stock up on the ammo for. And thanks again!

 

[Warp]

just re-read this and caught this fine print. Thanks for the sound advice but I am missing something here. What is the reasoning (tactically) for FMJ .45 ACP for defense?

I've got just under 200 rounds of Ranger T-Series now currently and almost that much in reserve for going to the range but are you saying there is value in shooting attackers for defensive purposes with FMJ as well? What about the "straight through them liability" factor?

Not questioning your advice, just clarifying what purpose you meant to stock up on the ammo for. And thanks again!

Call me cynical, but to me it seems to come down to "many 1911s are not reliable, and have problems feeding JHP, so just feed them ball to make sure they actually work"

It isn't a terribly bad choice in .45, anyway, and saves money

 

[rodregier]

If you want to hedge your bets, the Remington 7615 pump action accepts standard capacity AR15 pattern magazines and is available chambered in .223 Rem. I don't know if these are also selling for insane prices too.

http://www.remington.com/products/archived/centerfire/pump-action/model-7615.aspx

http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/7615.htm

 

[scotty45]

Okay, makes sense. I'm not military but have heard they have to use FMJ (which is insane, but I don't make the rules), and I suppose the slower and wider .45 should be safer than 9mm FMJ but only in extreme conditions.

But if I'm firing upon another human being...it's extreme conditions, so I guess the suggestion brings the mindset up to that level. Stock up on both kinds of ammo.

I LIKE that Remington pump and there was a used one on GB for about $7-800. It'd be a good thing for the wife to be trained on...two pump-action guns.

And I saw and loved the film Jack Reacher. Started off with the big crime that sets the story...a mass sniper shooting, using a M14/21 of sorts. Yeah, I'll stay away from that forum, ryoung1964! I think the round you suggest could be trusted. It'd be loud as snot but I suppose anything will be indoors.

As for 45-70? LOL, a true man's round, but I'm afraid that would go through ten houses. I was looking at ammo to compare .223, .308, and .30-30 and happened to scroll past a 45-70 listing and saw it was a 405 grain bullet. Wow! I've got to fire one of those. But outdoors!

 

[razorback2003]

You have quite a good set of guns, especially a handgun and shotgun. The truth is that any defense needs can be met with the handgun and shotgun.

I would honestly buy more ammo for the guns you own, magazines for your 22 and pistol. Are you a member of a gun club? If you aren't use some of that money to join a gun club so you can practice frequently.

 

[omelas]

Everyone overlooks one obvious choice. While I would opt for a 12 guage with 1 buck, you might want to look at the m1a. Not one of the newer tactical jobs but a plain M14 style. fast action, dependable, easy reload, BUT most importantly if it was ever necessary can easily take a head off at 500 yds. Should say I'm slightly prejudice 'cause I used one in the military.

 

[Warp]

Everyone overlooks one obvious choice. While I would opt for a 12 guage with 1 buck, you might want to look at the m1a. Not one of the newer tactical jobs but a plain M14 style. fast action, dependable, easy reload, BUT most importantly if it was ever necessary can easily take a head off at 500 yds. Should say I'm slightly prejudice 'cause I used one in the military.

Few people want to use a .308/7.62 NATO for home defense, and home defense has to figure prominently in a defensive rifle.

An all around defensive rifle is also virtually guaranteed to be used defensively at anything even pretending to approach 500 yards.

BUT, that said, I wouldn't mind having one!

 

[B!ngo]

I responded once, but it seems that there is one other option. If you really think that the AR/AK is the right answer but funds won't cover it now and it may be a limited time offer to buy one given impending legislation, sell the handgun and shotgun right now and buy the AR asap. You can likely always buy back the other two but may never be able to buy the AR again.
I'll repeat that it doesn't seem that you need the AR, but only you know that.
B

 

[I6turbo]

IMO, the scenario that many people have in their minds where an AR type gun is ideal for home defense is waaaay less likely to happen than a scenario where a 12 gauge with a supply of double aught would be THE tool of choice. If you got the Mosberg and ammo, I think you should rest pretty easy regarding home defense.

 

[Warp]

IMO, the scenario that many people have in their minds where an AR type gun is ideal for home defense is waaaay less likely to happen than a scenario where a 12 gauge with a supply of double aught would be THE tool of choice. If you got the Mosberg and ammo, I think you should rest pretty easy regarding home defense.

...what scenario is that??