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Record number of illegal immigrants tried to buy guns this year

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by RETG, Dec 28, 2018.

  1. RETG

    RETG Member

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    total recoil and 243winxb like this.
  2. Odd Job

    Odd Job Moderator Staff Member

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    The other figures are interesting also:

    upload_2018-12-28_11-47-57.png
     
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  3. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    I figure it's a function of the numbers coming into the country... The more illegals the greater number of attempts to purchase weapons (for better or worse...). Of course anti- second amendment types will try to spin it into great restrictions on all of us -but I'd like to think that the general public is beginning to realize that our illegal immigration problems not only aren't going away - they're getting worse...
     
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  4. Robert

    Robert Administrator Staff Member

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    Keep this firearms related. If we get side tracked by immigration as its own issue then this will be closed.
     
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  5. sota

    sota Member

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    is that JUST for 2018?!?!

    eta: I found the PDF this came from. I'd like to get some clarity as to what it means though. Based on the document title, is seems like it encompasses more than just the 2018 calendar year.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2018
  6. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm not sure what period that covers. Typically FBI/DOJ statistics cover the period either a year or two previous unless they state otherwise.

    Here's the latest published NICS report. You'll find a similar tables starting on page 16 of the report. They don't quite match the WashExaminer, but they do indicate a shift of the second most frequent cause of denial.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 28, 2018
  7. Browning

    Browning Member

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    I worked at a Gunstore for a few years in the late 90's. Lots of illegals came in and tried to buy guns, were refused and then came back later with a relative (usually female) and then tried to buy one.

    Unknown is how many got smart after we refused them for a straw purchase and went to a different gun store. We were hardly the only one in Phoenix AZ.

    On a different note, I was always under the impression that by the very definition of misdemeanors that the maximum jail sentence someone could receive was one year and that they didn't lose their gun rights except for domestic violence.

    A quick look on the net yielded ...

    My google-fu could only finding the two year jail sentence stipulation in Massachusetts. How is that legal?

    (Fixed a sentence)
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2018
  8. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    When I worked in a gun shop, we had many prohibited persons attempt to purchase (some were people who would have probably been fine if they hadn't come in reeking of booze or cannabis) along with many attempted straw purchases that were "outed" because of overheard conversations at the counter. You have to wonder how many were successful either by pulling off their plan, or buying somewhere else from a less scrupulous merchant. I am curious where the gun came from that was used to kill the officer in California on Xmas by that individual.
     
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  9. Ohen Cepel

    Ohen Cepel Member

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    I'm waiting for the ACLU or someone to sue a show for refusing a sale to someone they have a concern about ie; a straw purchase. The shop it absolutely right to do so but I can see a lawsuit coming sooner or later. The situation is bad as it puts stores in a bad position. I would also love to see the gun laws enforced! If all these people are trying to illegally buy a firearm and they put their address down why doesn't someone go get them!?!?!?
     
  10. JONWILL

    JONWILL Member

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    So if I understand this 19 million people filled out the 4473 truthfully or did NICS catch them?

    I remember a report where some States didn’t keep their criminal records for NICS updated

    I wonder what the breakdown is by State for NICS rejections. I bet it is mainly the States bordering Mexico
     
  11. GAF

    GAF Member

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    Last edited: Dec 28, 2018
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  12. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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    Holy smokes. I had no ideas there were so many denials.
     
  13. Sistema1927

    Sistema1927 Member

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    How many prosecutions were there?

    <crickets>
     
  14. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy Member

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    Go to the bottom of the article, there is a corrected update that basically makes the whole report false.
     
  15. Kaybee

    Kaybee Member

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    I’ve been saying this for years but I am NOT against bg checks. What I am against is the REGISTRATION and TRACKING that usually goes with it (because that’s an essential, and historically proven as a tool for confiscation).

    I think it’s a huge win for antis that these two things have become synonymous because it IS possible to have one without the other.

    When republicans had control I wish they went after tracking and registration across the country.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2018
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  16. cheygriz

    cheygriz Member

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    Now that is the real question, isn't it???

    the ATTEMPT to buy illegally is a crime. BUT NEVER PROSECUTED!!!:(
     
  17. mgresh

    mgresh Member

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    Huh? It just clarifies that this is number of 'barred transactions', and not 'attempted purchases'.

    It just explained an error in a previous article. The 'correction' doesn't change anything about this article or it's intent or information.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2018
  18. AlexanderA
    • Contributing Member

    AlexanderA Member

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    The 2nd Amendment says that "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." It doesn't limit that right to citizens, or even to those with a legal immigration status. (In 1791, anyone could come here freely. There were no border controls.) I think that conditioning the right to buy a gun on citizenship or immigration status may be unconstitutional. OK, deny the guy a gun based on verified criminality, but don't deny him just because he came here looking for a better life while crossing the border without the requisite formalities. He may in fact have a legitimate need for a gun, for self-protection, more than someone who is more established in this country.
     
  19. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

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  20. mgresh

    mgresh Member

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    The information is accurate. It represents the current number of prohibited people, and the reason, in the database. Not how many attempted to get guns, or were denied purchase.
     
  21. Odd Job

    Odd Job Moderator Staff Member

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    This may explain the difference between the two lists. From the operations report on page 16:

    The other table is an active record table, which seems to include all the records, both federal and state, going back to the time they started collecting them:

    If you read the quote above, from page 26 of the PDF, it says there were 1,589,422 added records in 2017.
     
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  22. cheygriz

    cheygriz Member

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    So you're okay with CRIMINALS who swim the river in the dead of night in violation of our laws being able to LEGALLY buy guns???

    They come here for a better life??? Right! A life American taxpayers give them via welfare.
     
  23. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    Crossing the border illegally is, well, illegal. Are you considering only some illegal acts to be criminality?
     
  24. AlexanderA
    • Contributing Member

    AlexanderA Member

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    Just because someone overstays a visa, or crosses the border without a visa, doesn't make him the kind of "criminal" that we are normally concerned about when denying the right to a gun. If he has an actual violent record, then yes.
     
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  25. Sovblocgunfan

    Sovblocgunfan Member

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    I’m not sure I would necessarily agree with your assessment. Heller appears to have described “the people” as excluding certain groups.

    Please take a look at this article from Harvard Law Review. https://harvardlawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/pdfs/vol126_the_people_in_the_constitution.pdf

    It addresses the distinction you point out, although from a slightly different angle. I’m going to take the article at face value here, because I’m not a Heller scholar and have no real reason to disagree with what they are saying.

    I do not pretend to take a position regarding my agreement or disagreement with this article. However, it appears to some that the definition is unclear at best, and may change depending on the right under discussion.

    So, for the moment, I’m gonna go with the idea that illegals shouldn’t be able to buy guns here. And I don’t really feel the need to get into a long protracted argument about it.
     
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