Red Dot, 9mm, MBC 125 gr SmallBall load advice

[popper]

Flare an empty case a little at a time and do the drop test in the bl. When it goes into full battery, you found it. XD is tapered, Glock doesn't appear to be. I don't know about others. bds has good info. Also, rotate the case when seating to try to keep the CB straight.

 

[ohrings]

The Lyman book (new 49th edition) does show red Dot to start at 3.o grains with a maximum of 3.9 grains. The Pressure listed at the 3.9 grains is 32,000 while the 3 grain is 25,100. I think I will start at about 3.4 grains and work up from there up to 3.9. I'll take them to the range and see how they work. I will take a look at the primers as I go along to check for pressure.

Thank you guys!!

I appreciate it

 

[Stumper]

In the 9mmx19 seating depth/available combustion space easily makes more difference than a 10% charge weight change or a move up or down in bullet weight. Lyman's 49 shows a deep seated 120 gr RN for their charges and pressures. 4.1 gr Red Dot under 124 gr Berry's TCFP seated to 1.070 OAL is not excessive and chambers in barrels with no leade. The same charge under a double radius 125 lead RN seated for 1.152 OAl is a light load that functions most pistols but drops brass at your feet.
ALWAYS check the seating depth of your proposed load in the 9. If you are encroaching into the powder space LESS then you have lots of room in your work up. If you are taking up more space than the tested loads you need to be very cautious. Light compression of fluffy powders like Red Dot is not really a concern provided the load is appropriate.

 

[jim000711]

Experiencing "key holing"

Missouri Bullet, 125 grain SWC.(Brinell 18, .356) Maybe one in four or one in five keyhole. I have tried varying COL. Also played with crimp.

Does anyone have a powder and COL for these 125 SWC that they like? Also I see the comment "slug the barrel." Can someone explain how that is done?

 

[LiveLife]

The Lyman book (new 49th edition) does show red Dot to start at 3.o grains with a maximum of 3.9 grains. The Pressure listed at the 3.9 grains is 32,000 while the 3 grain is 25,100. I think I will start at about 3.4 grains and work up from there up to 3.9. I'll take them to the range and see how they work. I will take a look at the primers as I go along to check for pressure.

Good thinking ... better to use lower load data for powder work up when more than one source is available and many on THR will recommend using multiple load data.

Lyman #49:
120 gr LRN, CCI SP, 4" barrel, 1.065" OAL - Start 3.0 (919 fps) 25,100 CUP - Max 3.9 gr (1140 fps) 32,000 CUP

2004 Alliant load data:
125 gr Lead (bullet nose not specified), Winchester SP, 4" barrel, 1.150" OAL - Start (Not listed) - Max 4.5 gr (1145 fps) 32,000 PSI

When I initially conducted my Promo load development using Red Dot load data, I referenced both sources as well using 18 BHN Missouri 125 gr LRN (SmallBall), Winchester SP primer, 1.080"-1.125" OAL and Glock 17/22/27 (factory and Lone Wolf 40-9 conversion barrels).

Since I was using components/dimensions closer to the 2004 Alliant load data, I went 10% below the published max for 1.125" OAL loads (~4.2 gr) and .3 gr below that for the shorter 1.080"-1.100" OAL loads (~3.8 gr). I use "around" ~3.8/~4.2 because the large flake Promo powder charges vary by .2 gr+ in my Pro Auto Disk.

At the shorter 1.080"-1.100" OAL, I have found ~3.8 - ~4.0 gr of Promo to be very accurate and reliable in my Glock 22/27 with LW conversion barrels. The loads allow for tight double-taps at 10 yards off hand for me.

Keep in mind that Promo is a large flake powder (larger flakes than Unique) and will meter with variance in most powder measures (.2 gr+ for me in Pro Auto Disk) - so I suggest using lower load data sources for powder work up. Your 3.4 gr charge could actually be more like 3.6-3.8 gr and I could not stress the importance of check weights more.

Despite the powder charge variations like Unique, I am growing more fond of Promo as it produces my #2 favorite 45ACP load for now (200 gr SWC with 4.0 gr of Promo) that is very accurate with mild recoil.

Missouri Bullet, 125 grain SWC.(Brinell 18, .356) Maybe one in four or one in five keyhole. I have tried varying COL. Also played with crimp.

Also I see the comment "slug the barrel." Can someone explain how that is done?

Jim, keyholing of lead bullets has been discussed in several threads and was attributed to oversized barrels (larger than .355" groove diameter) for use with .356" sized lead bullets, especially with insufficient powder charges that failed to deform the bullet base enough to provide proper bullet-to-barrel seal (obturation). Without the proper bullet-to-barrel fit (typically bullet diameter sized .001" larger than the groove diameter of the barrel), the bullet base will fail to grip the rifling to rotate and may skip down the barrel. Without enough bullet rotation in flight to stabilize the bullet, the bullet will start to tumble and keyhole on target.

You can read on how to slug your barrel here - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=639467

Here's a video of how to slug a barrel - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR_WiL8Dkgw

Depending on how much your barrel is oversized (.356" - .357"+), you may either need to increase the powder charge or use a larger diameter sized bullet or both. If you need larger sized bullets (.357"/.358") contact Missouri Bullet.

Can I request special sizing or can I change the type of alloy I want used?
Yes. There is a minimum order of 1,000 bullets and a $10.00 set up fee for special orders. These bullets require a special set up and will be made as time permits.

Does anyone have a powder and COL for these 125 SWC that they like?

If you look at the comparison pictures, 125 gr SWC provides very substantial bullet base that gets seated deeper in the case neck. I found 1.045" OAL to work well for pistols/barrels I have used but because the bullet seats deeper in the case, when I conducted my powder work up, I used .2-.3 gr below published start/max charges.

Current load data from Hodgdon - http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

125 gr Lead CN W231/HP-38 Diameter .356" OAL 1.125" Start 3.9 gr (1009 fps) 25,700 CUP - Max 4.4 gr (1086 fps) 31,200 CUP

For MBC 125 gr SWC bullet, I referenced 125 gr load data for lead Cone Nose and conducted my work up from 3.6 gr to 4.1 gr of W231/HP-38 using 1.045" OAL. Even at start charge, accuracy was good and mid-high range loads produced little to almost no lube smoke out of .355" groove diameter Lone Wolf barrels, which indicated to me that I had very good bullet-to-barrel seal for minimal high pressure gas leakage around the bullet.