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"Red Dot in Reduced Rifle Loads" IS THIS SAFE?

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by andym79, Dec 7, 2011.

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  1. andym79

    andym79 Member

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    Just trying to gather opinions on this, seems an awfully risky practice to follow to me!

    http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/TheLoad.html

    Essentially what is says is:
    Fair enough!

    It is refers to as
    Quote
    THE LOAD
    and works on the presumption that you can just use 13grs of RED DOT so long as:
    1. The case is bigger than a Savage 300
    2. Modern rifle
    3. Typical bullet weight for cartridge!
    4. Don't use fillers!

    A road to destruction of rifle and face?
     
  2. BeerSleeper

    BeerSleeper Member

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    It is my opinion that this is a terrible idea.
     
  3. jungle

    jungle Member

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    The writer, C.E. Harris, knows more about guns and loads than most of us ever will. The load is safe and well tested, both in other published sources and by many other users. As always, you must follow the caveats.

    Such reduced loads allow a lot of flexibility in rifles and may be used for small game or economical practice.
     
  4. GP100man

    GP100man Member

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    I shoot 16grs. of 2400 under a Lyman 314299 with GC in 30-06 & it`s more accurate than I am !!!

    243win is scarey accurate with 9gr of 700x & a 100gr lead boolit !!

    3030 gets reddot in 8gr doses or 700x, but it`s doable in bout any rifle cartridge ,some take a filler to keep the powder to the base for consistent ignition.

    Go here & use the search option for your caliber : http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?f=45
     
  5. kingmt

    kingmt Member

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    Post 1 doesn't make since.

    It is safe as long as your safe. If your not safe then it isn't safe to use.
     
  6. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    I have used 700X for small rifle cases as well. Blue Dot is used in .223 by folks. One fellow here swears by it in 6PPC cases.
     
  7. MrOldLude

    MrOldLude Member

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    With enough experience and good sense, I'm sure a lot of non-standard powder charges are possible. But I don't have the time, patience, guts, or extra-guns to risk by deviating beyond published data.

    I'm just as happy not reinventing the wheel.
     
  8. TonyT

    TonyT Member

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    I believe the real old Lyman reloading manulas from the 1950's had reduced velocity loads using Red Dot powder.
     
  9. dogrunner

    dogrunner Member

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    I've used the stuff in my M/70 under a 173 Gr. Lyman hard cast w/GC. Lube is Javelina brand alox, kapok filler. Very, very accurate & utterly no pressure indications. As I recall my load was around 12 grains. Actually the stuff is quite similar to Unique. You'd get more info from Castboolits.com.
     
  10. Steve C

    Steve C Member

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    This is a posting I copied 17 years ago by Ed Harris on using Red Dot in rifle loads.

     
  11. snuffy

    snuffy Member

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    Everybody's entitled to an opinion. As long as it's based on experience, which yours is not. "the load" has been used by millions of us older shooters for over 30 years. Apparently you never heard of it before.
     
  12. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Member

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    It works. Don't use any filler. POI will be lower.
     
  13. BeerSleeper

    BeerSleeper Member

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    Too many stories that start off with pistol powders in rifle rounds do not end well.

    It may work, and plenty of folks may like it, but that doesn't make it a cautious thing to do.

    I do hope anyone intending to do this is very careful in doing so.
     
  14. Maple_City_Woodsman

    Maple_City_Woodsman Member

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    There is no reason to load any kind of reduced load with anything other than Trail Boss these days.
     
  15. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    Agreed

    While its technically possible to still use a rotary phone why would you bother? The same goes for "the load" save the phone doesn't blow your face off and kill you when dial the number slightly wrong

    posted via tapatalk using android.
     
  16. dogrunner

    dogrunner Member

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    Oh yeah, and lead bullets are "passee' " as well. IF you are inexperienced. as is obvious, then DON'T experiment, DON'T take the word of those that intelligently do, and remain "chicken littles"!

    I'll add that I'd bet money that none of you nay sayers have much if any time in the re-loading game. How about paper patching '06s to nominal jacketed bullet velocity. For that matter how about the same in .338 WM? Spend some time in the game before you declare an issue unsafe or ill advised!

    For that matter how many of you have even used surplus bulk.....I suppose Trail Boss.......is the "safe" approach and 860/844/872/846 et al is ill advised too.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2011
  17. snuffy

    snuffy Member

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    Well, I just bought a pound of red-dot just because of this thread. I was always going to try it, just never got aroun-to-it-. I have several choices of home cast boolits and a 03-a3 to shoot them in.

    I recently tried some of those boolits in it using another old time pistol powder, WW-630. They shot quite nicely, no leading, no damage to anything besides the nice holes in the target.

    BTW R.W., how about disabling that tapatalk commercial? Companies pay for adds on this forum, allowing that to stay on this board is like a free commercial for tapatalk AND android.
     
  18. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    C. E. Harris was doing the best he could with the powders of the era, so lets give him a break.

    I think there are better choices today, AA5744 and Trail boss. Accurate Arms says AA5744 was developed in big blackpowder cases, like the 45-120. Trail Boss is bulky. Very bulky.

    With these powders, no one ever need use reduced charges of rifle powders or pour pistol powders in rifle cases.
     
  19. David Wile

    David Wile Member

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    Hey folks,

    Maybe something is going over my head here, but I do not understand part of Harris' premise. If I read his "Red Dot Load" article correctly, he seems to be saying that Red Dot takes up more space than 2400 which I know is a slower burner than Blue Dot. My "common sense" tells me that 2400 should take up more space than Red Dot, but, then again, common sense isn't always common.

    I know I could go down in the basement and start looking up loadings with Red Dot and 2400 and see which comparable loads take up more space, but I just got a cortisone shot in the hip, and I do not feel like getting out of my chair.

    Can you folks tell me what I may be missing here or if I am just plain wrong about comparable loads of Red Dot and 2400 actually having 2400 taking up more volume? Does that make sense at all?

    Best wishes,
    Dave Wile
     
  20. GaryL

    GaryL Member

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    I know a couple guys well into their 70's who used to load up reduced loads in 30-06 with 2400 and red dot. It makes sense that it requires a fair amount of unused case capacity, which would provide expansion room and keep a powder like red dot from burning at its 'normal' rate in a small capacity case.
     
  21. rsrocket1

    rsrocket1 Member

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    According to this chart, 2400 is about twice as dense and will take up about half the volume of an equal weight of Red Dot. 0.0742 cc/grain of 2400 versus .1413 cc/grain of Red Dot.

    My load is 8-12g Unique for .308. 11 grains pushes a 110g RNP bullet to 1740fps with a recoil and report like a 22 magnum. Really fun load. I've also heard of folks using the 110g frangible pressed lead powder with about 8g Unique for fun plinking. I like the plated bullets because its a little tougher and can handle 2000+ fps if needed.

    I wouldn't hesitate using the same load in a 30-30 or 30-06 or other similar rifle.

    The interesting thing is that in a 22 inch barrel, many pistol powders are fully burned by the time they reach the end of the barrel and the same load with different powders yield almost the same muzzle velocity. 11g of Red Dot, Bullseye, Unique and Power Pistol all come within 100 fps of each other.
     
  22. mac60

    mac60 Member

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    13 gr. Red Dot, or "the load" as detailed by C.E. Harris is safe. Refer to the Lyman cast bullet handbook 3rd edition and you'll see that Red Dot is well represented, and in fact in .30-06 and quite a few other cartridges 13 gr. RD is a "published load". 2400 and RD along with other powders commonly used in handgun/shotgun loading along with cast bullets let me do a lot of shooting for my money.
     
  23. res45

    res45 Member

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    I've been shooting the 13.0 gr. Red Dot or 16.0 grs. 2400 loads in my Mosin rifle for a couple years as well as several other calibers. I also shoot 8.0 grs. Red Dot in my 30-30 reduced loads. Get yourself a Lyman Cast Bullet manual they have reduce loads for about any rifle cartridge you can imagine using fast to Med. fast burning powders with cast lead bullets.

    Sav. 30-30 50 yds. 8.0 grs. Red Dot 170 gr. Lee RNFP tumble lubed,no gas check.
    scan0001-1-1.gif
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2011
  24. Shmackey

    Shmackey Member

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    My two light-load rifle powders: Trail Boss for powderpuff and ~70% of max H4895 for creampuff. :)

    Both of these can't be double-charged and are in fact recommended by their manufacturers.
     
  25. mgmorden

    mgmorden Member

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    Its added by default when using Tapatalk (it can be disabled, but not everyone digs in the settings). Considering that the board administrators SPECIFICALLY have to add support for Tapatalk to the forum, I'm guessing they're ok with it doing its default behavior.
     
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