Red Dot on an AK: What's the best way?

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Nightcrawler-

Do you have access to an AK with a sidemount? You can check the Tantal mount and see if it sits too far to the left for you. If you look down on it from above, the mount sits ever so slightly to the left of the centerline of the dustcover. It might be close enough to work for a lefty.

Mike
 
I don't see how the Ultimak rail is worth a darn??

The way I shoot, it WILL transfer way too much heat to the rail, then the rings, and onto the optic. The better military grade optics can handle high temps, but those tolernaces are no where near high enough to deal with the heat of a gastube. And that's considering that I don't do mag dumps.
 
I've had Ultimaks on two AK's for 3-4+ years now. I've never had any issues with heat on any of the optics, cheap or expensive, that I've had on them. The rifles have been shot hot enough that you could not touch the barrels, and on a regular basis. The Ultimak dissipates heat very rapidly.

The aluminum Ultimak mounts retain heat a lot less than the steel Springfield SOCOM/Scout rails. I have a SOCOM that has been shot like the AK's and even with its mount retaining the heat, the optics have been fine.
 
I wonder. If you used a ghost-ring rear sight, mounted on the dust cover, such as the ones available from Tromix and Krebs, if you couldn't attach a little bit of Picatinny rail to the old sight base. It'd be perfect for mounting an Aimpoint Comp or an Eotech.

I was re-reading your original post and caught this. While it's not exactly what you were talking about, take a look here -> http://www.scoutscopes.com/

It's a "scout" mount that replaces the original rear sight yet retains its function as a rear sight. I don't know much of anything else about them but I had seen them talked about before so I know some folks have used and reviewed them.

If you want something a little lower, try this one -> http://www.gunaccessories.com/MilitaryScopeMounts/AK47/index.asp

It looks to be a little lower but also looks a bit less sturdy to me.

Anyway, I hope that you can find something that will work. Though, I must admit, I'm curious why you would want a 308 Saiga when you've got that 16" FAL of yours. Not that there's anything wrong with wanting one, mind you, just curious.

Barrett
 
Though, I must admit, I'm curious why you would want a 308 Saiga when you've got that 16" FAL of yours. Not that there's anything wrong with wanting one, mind you, just curious.

Because I'm an unfaithful gun whore who can never just be happy with what he's got. :D

No, I'm not selling the FAL, but...it never hurts to have an extra rifle.
 
just because

he might want to shoot something besides nato ammo. You can shoot both in the saiga safely. Nato is the only thing that is recomended in the FAL's because of the fluted chambers


steve
 
I wasnt aware of any FAL's having fluted chambers. I know HK's do, and I never had any troubles shooting any type of ammo out of them, commercial hunting ammo or military. Also, contrary to what you often here, you can easily reload the brass fired from them too.

The Kobras sit much higher, as do most all of the side mount, receiver cover, and sight mounts.
 
Kobras don't have 50,000 hours of battery life like the new Aimpoints do either.
Nor do they cost as much.

I guess I shouldnt have suggested them considering the thread title is 'best' aka most expensive, but they're an option a lot of people go with.
 
I bought an Ultimak second hand and don't have installation instructions. On Ultimak's website, they mention their gas tube is a tad shorter OAL than the original, so that it will better fit all sundry AKs. Their site doesn't give true installation instructions, either.

From Ultimak, "All UltiMAK AK mounts are designed to be slightly shorter than the original gas tube. This helps in two significant ways. 1. It ensures a fit on practically any AK without custom fitting, which would require cutting through the hard anodizing-- a nasty process that will dull all but the best carbide tools. 2. More importantly, the shorter tube can be mounted so it does not press against the rear sight block or the gas block. In this way, the mount is not jammed against any part of the barrel assembly at either end, and the barrel can expand and contract with temperature changes without changing point of impact. Several customers have indicated an improvement in accuracy after installing UltiMAK mounts on their rifles."

My question is this: Do I split the difference in the distance gap, and clamp the Ultimak with a slight equal gap between the sight block and the gas block? Thanks in advance!

Edit: My rifle is a Bulgarian Arsenal SLR-95.
 
Do I split the difference in the distance gap, and clamp the Ultimak with a slight equal gap between the sight block and the gas block?
I believe thats what the instructions that came with mine said. Its what I did anyway, and both of mine have been fine. They also said you dont have to locktite the screws. I didnt and havent had any troubles.
 
I have heard you can rig up an Aimpoint with an ultra low ring on the Ultimak and still(barely) cowitness the iron sights. If that is true seems like a good way to go. If the Aimpoint is out of your price range you could look at a clone like the Burris or Hakko sights that use the same mounts. Not sure if they work but something you may want to investigate.
 
I have an Aimpoint on a Larue lever mount on my Saiga. It wont cowitness until you slide the lever to 400M. Not really a big deal since its a lever mount and gone faster than it took to type this sentence. I have seen the Aimpoints with a low ring on them and I do believe they cowitness that way. I have an Aimpoint on an Aimpoint low ring on my HK's claw mount, and it does sit low on the rail, I just never tried it on my Ultimak. Most all the lever mounts or mounts in general for that matter, are made for AR flat tops and the heights reflect that.

One advantage to the sight sitting up a tad is, the covers when opened, will drop flat on the rail. I dont like them "up" on top, as they sit up in the Kobra's altitude, and tend to block your vision. Down flat or low to the strong side are your best bet.
 
As others have said, you can:

1. Use a side mount with a weaver / picatinny rail and your choice of red dot.

2. Use a side mount with a built in red dot.

3. Use the Ultimak rail and your choice of red dot.

There seems to be alot of hear-say and non-factual information being spouted about all those methods by various posters.

Some side mounts sit way left, some sit up high. But some are low and centered. The BP-02 Low mount is quite low. You can modify it by unbolting the rail, shortening the rail to fit between the mounting areas, drilling it for new bolts, and bolting it down about 1/8 lower than before. It sights very slightly to the left.

Some side mount / built in red dot combos sit left, some sit high. Some don't. The newest version of the Kobra that accepts AA batteries is what I have. I do not find it to sit high for my tastes. Comparing online pictures of a mounted Kobra with various mounted mount/sight combos indicate it is one of the lower options available. My optic is very close to centered. If it sits left any, I can't tell. I find it to be very fast and comfortable to shoot. Mine also retains zero when I remove it from the rifle and remount it. Properly tensioning the mounting mechanism has alot to do with this.

Also, those saying that their mount is useless and not true to the bore of their gun probably have a problem with the rail itself - on the side of their receiver - not the scope mount. Rails are sometimes installed not true to the bore when the gun is built, and need to be removed, have new holes drilled in the receiver, and remounted true to the bore in order to be useful. I was lucky and mine is straight and true. If you mount up a scope on the side rail and your scope doesn't have enough adjustment to zero, your receiver rail is probably the culprit.

Finally, the Ultimak. This is about the only option that can get an Aimpoint, Aimpoint clone, or Micro Aimpoint low enough to co-witness your irons through it. With the full size Aimpoints and clones, this means using the lowest mounting ring you can find. Springfield Armory makes one that works, I'm sure there are others, too. Yes, the Ultimak does transfer heat to the sight. Some people report no problems, others have issues. It probably depends on how much and fast you shoot, and the quality of your optic. When using the fullsize Aimpoints and clones the rifle will be muzzle heavy.

I went with the Kobra because it is cost effective, it is centered, and not too high, it takes AA batteries, it has quick detach / attach ability, and it isn't exposed to excess heat, its mounting location also balances nicely.

I thought the Ultimak was a very appealing, but I also knew I wanted to spend around $200 on the whole package. This would have left me with a budget red dot on the Ultimak rail, and I wasn't confident it would stand up to the heat. Sometimes my plastic hand guards smoke and smell burnt when I shoot, so I knew my shooting sessions were generating considerable heat.

Hopefully this will help out the original posters with his search for an AK red dot and anyone else looking for similar information.
 
I've got my AK setup with a UTG quad rail, and an Aimpoint mounted in the scout position. In my opinion, its the best setup for an AK b/c its not a tack-driver, its a lead sprayer, so all you have to do is put that red dot in the direction you are shooting and you will definetly hit what you are aiming at.
 
It doesn't get any better than an UltiMAK gas tube rail and an Aimpoint Micro optic.
 
Greetings,

I have a tantal side rail and use it for my red dot. I do not have any issue hitting the bull's eye at 100 yards.

I have also a front rail (ATI stock) and mounting the red dot there also is no problem at 100 yards. the only thing is the red dot is a little farther from the eye and it is a little bit more distracting.

HOWEVER: when you use the side rail, you must be sure before you close the clamp to have the rail slided always the same way. There is very little slack up and down but more left and right. If you don't pay attention the zero will move (on mine anyway...).

Thank you
 
Ultimak with an Aimpoint is really the best solution I've seen and used.

It allows you to co-witness with the iron sights in the lower 1/3rd of the optic, is rock solid, and does not add much weight or bulk.

The Aimpoints are not affected by the heat of the gas tube, no worries there.

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Larry Vickers also uses the same set up:

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You can get a sight pretty low using the side mount. That retains the advantage of being able to field strip the rifle as intended. I shoot mostly corrosive ammo so being able to clean the gas tube and gas block thoroughly is very important to me.

I like using the BP-02 side mount from Tantal. It damn rugged and adjustable. Repeatability for me has been 2MOA or less. BSW

Reflex mounted on a BP-02.
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PK-23 mounted on a modded BP-02. The 30mm rings has been directly attached to the BP-02 after the rail was removed. It doesn't co-witness but it is very low.
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Some side mount / built in red dot combos sit left, some sit high. Some don't. The newest version of the Kobra that accepts AA batteries is what I have. I do not find it to sit high for my tastes. Comparing online pictures of a mounted Kobra with various mounted mount/sight combos indicate it is one of the lower options available. My optic is very close to centered. If it sits left any, I can't tell. I find it to be very fast and comfortable to shoot. Mine also retains zero when I remove it from the rifle and remount it. Properly tensioning the mounting mechanism has alot to do with this.

This is my experience as well.

I have a Kobra EKP-1S-03M, the newer AA version, on my WASR. It doesn't sit quite as low as I'd like but it does allow a decent cheek weld--certainly a lot better in that regard than the PK-AS-V I had on it before. If the Kobra is offset to the left, it is by such a minute degree that I have been unable to notice, even though I shoot left handed, and any such offset would be readily identifiable simple because it would mean I would have to tilt my head over the receiver.

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Sitting low

Down and dirty

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