Red Dot on Pistol Slide- Sturdy?

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Craig_AR

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i have been curious about using red dot on pistols for a while, but have never tried one. A particular concern has been durability: can a red dot really stand up to the punishment of the slide slamming back and forth, round after round?
I found good information in the 2018 article The Pros and Cons of a Miniature Red Dot Sight and Slide Cuts on a Defensive Pistol. To supplement that article, I'd appreciate the experiences of THR members on using red dots on pistols, both target and self defense. Have you seen damage to yours due to the shock factor? How may rounds have you gone before needing repair or replace? Have you compared low cost units to high cost Trijicon type sights?

Thanks!
 
Yes, they can stand being hammered on the slide. My first experience with it was a C-More sight in a "slide ride" configuration on top of Glock back in the 90s. It isn't a new concept. The sights have just gotten smaller. The question is more one of reliability. I mean, it's a handgun sight. Whether we want to admit it or not, handguns get dropped and suffer all sorts of mishaps. As of now, I'm not aware of an mini red dot that can consistently withstand being dropped on its hood while mounted to a pistol, except maybe the Trijicon RMR.

To be truthful, I haven't mounted a red dot on any of my pistols for defensive purposes. I don't trust them enough yet. For shooting matches and stuff, I know people that run shield sights, vortex, Leupold and they all do well in that environment. Those that I have seen fail, have rarely done so just due to be shot on top of a pistol. It's usually because it was broken after being dropped in just the right way or being smacked into a steel something or other. I will say that it takes a lot of practice to shoot one proficiently. I have a friend that had one mounted on a Glock long slide with no sights. It took him a good while to be able to draw his pistol and be able to find the dot quickly. It's a good idea to have suppressor height sights to be able to use the front sight as a reference point.
 
They absolutely take the forces of recoil for many tens of thousands of rounds. One not uncommon problem, however, is loosening screws. You can't blame the red dot sight's durability for improperly torqued screws, screws installed without anaerobic threadlocker (Loctite), and for very thin slides that don't allow much screw thread engagement. Provided the installation is good, the sight itself will survive shooting.

As was mentioned before me, not all red dots survive drops. They are glass. The RMR has the best reputation for drop survival, but it also has one of the smallest windows. Some factors that affect drop survival are the weight of the pistol, the surface it lands on, and its orientation when it lands. The sights are not delicate. People routinely use them to violently rack the slide, even against walls and door frames and such (one-handed racking). But the glass can crack if the shock of a drop is too much.

A cracked window does not render the gun unusable. In fact, any kind of red dot sight failure is just that -- a failure of the sights, not the gun. People bend and break iron sights dropping their guns too. You can still hit what you point the gun at, and you can even still aim the gun using an alternative index. This is why "back-up iron sights" (BUIS) are over-rated. You don't really need BUIS to keep the gun functioning. You just need to improvise. What's more, BUIS clutter the sight picture and potentially slow dot-acquisition.

There are other disablers of red dot sights. The window can be occluded with dirt, mud, snow, blood or whatever. It can be occluded in the front so the reflection of the dot is still visible, or on the back so the dot is not visible. The LED emitter can also be occluded so that there is just no dot in the window (this is less likely with enclosed emitters such as Aimpoint Acro or the tube-type that aren't popular for slide-ride, at the expense of bulk). Batteries can also fail, though I think that is over-fretted. Again, iron sights aren't necessarily usable if the gun is caked with mud, snow or ice, so these kind of "what if" scenarios don't destroy the proposition of red dot sights. Train with occlusions by taping the sight front, taping it backside, and taping over the emitter. Practice an alternative sight index like marks, grooves, or edges on the slide, and practice point-shooting. The idea that you'll be better off with only iron sights instead of a red dot because all this unlikely stuff can happen is just far-fetched and irrational. Hunters and warfighters have been comfortable with the liabilities of optics for a long time and aren't about to go back to irons-only because of some kind of imagined superior reliability for critical applications.

Red dot sights (miniature reflex sights to be more specific) are even better for revolvers. Right now the shortcoming is that they're all designed to sit on a flat slide top, so the installation on a revolver is usually via an flat-plate adapter. That part is kind of lame. But the red dot on a revolver doesn't reciprocate -- semiautomatic pistols also have the option of frame-mounted red dots at the cost of bulkier mounts. In my personal experience, the red dot on a revolver gives up nothing compared to adjustable "iron" sights (factory S&W, which are actually plastic and steel). I never considered the factory sights "durable" and anyone who uses a fiber-optic front sight certainly has something less durable than a good red dot. So while giving nothing up, the red dot is a great aide to older eyes with presbyopia and it is far superior for precise aiming at more distant targets (50 yards and beyond) -- this is especially so with smaller dots like 2.5 or 1 MOA, probably not so with 6 MOA dots.
 
I have a Gen 1 RMR with an anti-flicker sealing plate. It rides on a Gen 4 Glock 19, with the slide cut by BattleWerx.

I'm in my third year of having the optic on the pistol. Approximately 2000 rounds through the gun. Additionally, I'll rack the slide using the RMR during one-handed drills, off of my belt, boot heel, or wooden table ledges.

Never a problem with the optic functioning or holding zero. The battery can go for something like 18 months to a few years. I'm a worry wart, so I change it out every new year.

HoloSun has developed a pretty good reputation and I wouldn't rule out the 507c as a piece of gear. However, China is on my naughty list at the moment and I'm avoiding exporting my dollars to them where I can.
 
I have a Gen 1 RMR with an anti-flicker sealing plate. It rides on a Gen 4 Glock 19, with the slide cut by BattleWerx.

I'm in my third year of having the optic on the pistol. Approximately 2000 rounds through the gun. Additionally, I'll rack the slide using the RMR during one-handed drills, off of my belt, boot heel, or wooden table ledges.

Never a problem with the optic functioning or holding zero. The battery can go for something like 18 months to a few years. I'm a worry wart, so I change it out every new year.

HoloSun has developed a pretty good reputation and I wouldn't rule out the 507c as a piece of gear. However, China is on my naughty list at the moment and I'm avoiding exporting my dollars to them where I can.

Mine are all Trijicon or Sig. They all work great. PS don't loctite your screws if you have to remove the sight to replace the battery.
 
I just bought a G19 MOS. I installed standard height trijicon night sights and a vortex venom. I hope to have it out and sighted in tomorrow morning.

If I do decide to run it for CCW, the reflex will come off as I know I’m just not proficient with it...yet.
 
Most red dot mounts I have seen for Walthers, Glocks, FNs and others use 2 threaded screws with blue loctite to hold on the mounting plate with 2 more screws holding the optic to the plate. Many plates also have some milled notches that slide into holes on factory optic-ready pistols. Other than some large bolts, that is about as secure as you can get. I can only imagine the thousands of scopes mounted on hunting rifles held on with smaller screws and often no threadlocker. I have started using a Holosun optic on my Walther Q4. So far I am very impressed.

The weakest red dot mount setup I have seen was the budget alternative to slide milling for a 1911. It involves a plate that slides into the dovetail cut for a rear site and tightened with a set screw. While this setup has been fine on a 1911 for 100+ years on iron sights, adding the mass of an optic with the plate, I am not sure if I would trust it 100% right away compared the milled option. But that is just me.

https://www.amazon.com/Trijicon-AC32058-Pistol-Dovetail-Models/dp/B00JSAKMGK

HoloSun has developed a pretty good reputation and I wouldn't rule out the 507c as a piece of gear. However, China is on my naughty list at the moment and I'm avoiding exporting my dollars to them where I can.

I have had mine on since 1st week of February. So far so good. I know already mine will not be the 10 year battery life the company claims. So it is the long waiting game on battery life for me. I have plenty of CR2023 batteries on hand so it will be a snap to replace when it does die.
 
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Mine are all Trijicon or Sig. They all work great. PS don't loctite your screws if you have to remove the sight to replace the battery.

I've replaced my battery twice now. Both times I had no problems breaking the dab of blue loctite I'd used. And one of those times, I forgot to apply the loctite the optic lost zero and got loose after a couple hundred rounds. So at least for my setup I'd say thread locker isn't optional.
 
Go to a "red dot" class at a shooting academy with twelve to fifteen students all with red dots and the most popular pistols. Over a multi-day class, at least one will lose a screw. Or just ask the instructors of three-day red dot classes how common it is.

This absolutely does not mean red dots are undependable. What it means is there is significant variation in installation. That variation comes as a result in variations of the pistol/sight/mount combination used, and the procedures the installer employed. There are good mount plate or slide designs. There are correct screws. There is a correct torque. There is a suitable threadlocker. There are good red dot sights. Not everyone uses them.

It's no different than revolvers. Go to revolver classes and you will at some point inevitably run into a person whose yoke screw backs out and they drop the yoke and cylinder on the ground. You'll also have the person whose ejector rod comes unscrewed and the cylinder won't release. Another common one is for the thumb plate to come off the stud on the release, but that doesn't hang up the action. Correct screwdriver bits, correct torque, and correct threadlocker are your friends.
 
I truly appreciate all the information being shared here. You really are educating me, and I hope others who have been wondering about these sights.
 
I switched my competition gun to carry optics 3 years ago. My canik came setup for a red dot, I mounted a Burris ff3, it has over 10,000 rounds through it. only issue I have had is I lost a screw lucky did not fall of I found it out when cleaning my pistol.
 
7577705D-9385-4944-AA93-B9F1057D6531.jpeg 74B83B11-B9A1-4430-9301-DECDCCF67D62.jpeg 7620331D-7E84-4404-822A-D440C6EE85CE.jpeg 08E651CA-30D6-480D-93F1-588FA1DDE8AF.jpeg The Glock I have the most rnds through , about 5000 . 2 Fastfire 3’s and 2 RMR ‘s . No problems with either . I prefer BUIS but their not a must have . For me when I see the front sight the dot is slightly above it every time . It works for me . As with most things shooting related training and practice is the most important thing . Just got a SRO and it’s getting mounted on a M9A3 but it will be a frame mount with no irons in the screen . We’ll see how it goes . Trijicon’s are wider that most slides , Burris is the same width as a Glock slide . If that’s important to you .
 
I have been running SIG and, more recently, Trijicon RMR Type 2 on a variety of polymer and metal pistols for a few years now.

The learning curve was steep but short for me, and I can regularly go back and forth between irons and dot equipped pistols on demand, with no loss of speed- but I work at it almost daily.

I've never had one lose zero or go out on me, even the much-maligned SIG Romeo series sights, but I change the batteries every six months whether it has sat unused or EDC. Might be able to push that to a year with the Trijicon RMR's I now run on my carry pieces.

For me, the long-distance accuracy, both eyes always open, and "either eye" alignment at speed is a really nice bonus.

Just remember, two is one, one is none, with that sort of thing especially.
 
I have red dot’s on both my Ruger MKII Slabside and Springfield Armory Range Officer which I use for indoor bullseye shooting. I do not have any red dots on a carry gun nor do I shoot heavy loads with them but plenty of people do with no problems. Take the advice of others and check your screws occasionally.
 
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I have recently added a Glock 19 MOS Gen 4 and decided on a Trijicon RMR Type 2. This decision was due to aging eyes more than latest fad!
 
Have around 6,000 rounds thru a Sig P320 Legion with a Romeo XL red dot. No issues with holding zero and on the original battery. No screws coming loose, with a dab of blue locktite.

Shooting? it’s like cheating.
 
I've been running a Trijicon RMR on my SIG P220 Match Stainless Elite for 2 years now with no problem.
They key is, I think, to get a Red Dot of sufficient quality to stand up to the punishment.
IMG_3469cs_noser.jpg
 
Just had my full-size SIG P-320 with the Romeo on it (from the factory) out last weekend, and several more shooters put upwards of four or five hundred rounds through it in two days. Probably got at least 2K rounds through it with no issues. I gotta tell you, I'm becoming fairly impressed with the Romeo -- it's held zero (I can ring 6" plates at 50 feet all day long) and it's still on its first battery since I bought in 2018.

Yeah, it's like cheating all right!
 
even the much-maligned SIG Romeo series sights
I was unaware these sights were "much maligned." Any references to this? (Since I, and a few of my co-workers who've been using these sights haven't had any significant issues) Sorry, I'm just not gonna Google this ...
 
I've got six Romeo1 units in two MOA sizes myself with only minor battery issues on the earlier revisions, but if you're unaware of the overall consensus on this, that rock you've been under must be getting a bit heavy by now. There have been at least seven revisions to the Romeo1 since it was introduced. It has now been replaced by a new model, the RomeoPro. While that fact in itself speaks for itself, Google is indeed your friend here.
 
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