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Red Flag Law in Florida costs man his guns

Discussion in 'Legal' started by FlSwampRat, Aug 19, 2019.

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  1. FlSwampRat

    FlSwampRat Member

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    The anti's all seem to think either that RFL's will work flawlessly or that a few "hiccups" here and there are justified "for everyone's safety.".

    I've seen what people go through with b/r check denials. Time off from work to get fingerprinted, paying for the fingerprinting, their money tied up on a gun sale that's waiting on approval, my gun tied up for the same thing.... It's why I constantly say fast & accurate or I don't want to see it happen.

    https://www.ammoland.com/2019/08/fl...en-away-over-mistaken-identity/#axzz5x49noV4T
     
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  2. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    If you want more precision in public administration, pay more in taxes and hire better people with better equipment. But you won't, because you have walked away from your Government.

    I seem to recall hardly any out cry about Robo-Signing. That was the banking sector stealing people's homes by not doing their paperwork. Incompetence and bad databases are not exactly limited to the public sector.
     
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  3. robhof

    robhof Member

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    Red flag laws seem to violate the Constitution; where the law is allowed to take your weapons with no crime committed, and you have to prove you're innocent, a vast expense for lawyer and court costs!!! Basically you are GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT, That's not how our justice system works and I hope a Supreme court challenge will prove that before we all lose our gun rights!
     
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  4. Mowgli Terry

    Mowgli Terry Member

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    I don't know where some of this stuff comes from. Are we really sure what these laws be in the final form. OK, we got three subjects is custody today who had threatened mass shootings. Is it reasonable to disarm these people? When you are dealing with deranged people, by assessment, there are no gray areas.
     
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  5. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    Some states already have specific laws against "Uttering terroristic threats". No new RFL needed.
     
  6. huntsman

    huntsman Member

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    Fear the Bureaucrat because they are only following orders.

    Don’t keep all your eggs in one basket.
     
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  7. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

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    Very true. It also happened in the days before terrorism laws. In the early 1980s in West Virginia, i knew a cretin who threatened folks with guns. Finally someone complained to the sheriff and prosecutor. Result: A judge simply ordered his guns confiscated. He never got his guns back.

    In about 2004 there was a stalking case in this county where the judge granted a permanent restraining order and confiscation of firearms.
     
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  8. Sovblocgunfan

    Sovblocgunfan Member

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    Anybody else catch the conjecture about checking a database for a concealed carry permit? Conjecture, yes, but the article is a prime example of what's going to start happening everywhere. And don't give me that crap about simple mistaken identity. This story would have a different ending. They'd say sorry and give the guy his guns back and move on.

    They don't care about that guy or the fact that he's not the right guy. They just want to say they checked off all the boxes and don't care who gets caught in it. Indifference to getting it right is just as bad as abuse.
     
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  9. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

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    So the system made a grievous mistake and had a person's guns removed, incorrectly.

    And all the anti's thought this was a horrible outcome. Not.
     
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  10. SharpDog

    SharpDog member

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    Well, this is going to happen in more states soon unless you contact your Federal and State representatives the White House
     
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  11. SharpDog

    SharpDog member

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    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
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  12. Fine Figure of a Man

    Fine Figure of a Man Member

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    This thread illustrates the importance or paying attention to politics everyday, not just election day. It is of particular importance to know what judges should be retained.
     
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  13. FlSwampRat

    FlSwampRat Member

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  14. Mowgli Terry

    Mowgli Terry Member

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    Should the good cops give these people back their firearms?
     
  15. SharpDog

    SharpDog member

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  16. SharpDog

    SharpDog member

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  17. Fine Figure of a Man

    Fine Figure of a Man Member

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    A calm, reasoned, intelligent discussion could preserve our rights and keep threads like this open.
     
  18. Mowgli Terry

    Mowgli Terry Member

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    It's tough topic. People in good faith brings up aspects of 2A rights. Others bring up the danger of having people that are a threat to themselves and others being armed. We still need more specific information on Red Flag Laws to make that reasoned intelligent decision. When I get into that don't confuse me with the facts I've got my mind made up mode it's not a good thing. We need to be able to deal with these nutballs within a legal process with review.
     
  19. Dudedog
    • Contributing Member

    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    If you want to look at one look at Californias.:barf:
     
  20. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    Florida's has been on the books about 10 months now.
    They have confiscated over a 1000 weapons.
    The approval rate by judges for the warrants runs 95%.
    Florida does not run "no knock" but they often show up before sun rise.

    It's hard to get accurate accounting (or auditing) of the facts & figures on these. So, the number of wrong addresses, "oh, we're sorry" reversals, and the like are not known.

    Mental health "persons" are meant to be referred to for these cases. But, the record of the mental health field in predicting actual behavior (by that field's own admission) is approximately that of a dice roll.

    So, in violation of 4th, 5th, & 6th amendment rights, hundred of Floridians have been found guilty of a crime they had not committed (and might never have committed) with no due process what so ever.

    It's firearms now, but wait until it's your wifi connection and phone for being merely suspected ot thoughtcrime.
     
  21. natman

    natman Member

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    The way RFL's work you're not even Guilty until proven Innocent. First, you're just Guilty, when they hold a "hearing" in absentia and the judge issues an order to suspend your Second Amendment rights. Then you get to be Guilty until proven Innocent, at a hearing likely presided by a judge who has already declared you guilty once.

    All this is not for a crime that has been committed, it's for a crime that someone thinks might be committed.
     
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  22. Fine Figure of a Man

    Fine Figure of a Man Member

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    The term "red flag law" should raise a red flag for anyone that wishes to preserve the 2A along 1A, 4A and probably others.
     
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  23. Mowgli Terry

    Mowgli Terry Member

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    The term Red Flag is the old term for caution like in railroads. Nobody has yet been able to tell me what to do with those intent on harming self or others who are armed. Also, look up mental health status exam. Unless somebody is showing some pathological behavior what are they doing in the mental health system in the first place? Guilt or innocence is not the issue.

    Addendum: How about it, SwampRat?
     
  24. GAF

    GAF Member

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    I have seen the domestic abuse laws work the same way. All it took was one angry person to accuse another of threatening violence and you get some of your right removed for a while.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
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  25. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Me, too.

    We say Red Flag confiscations lack due process.
    Problem is, due process is what the lawyers say it is.
     
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