Red Jacket ARs

[eastbank]

when on the TV show they said the japanese service rifle had no safety(it does), ammo was hard to get(its not),was not safe to fire(it is) and then charged a out of this world price to clean it,they lost me forever. if a so called expert did not know these things,how can you believe any thing put on the show? eastbank.

 

[digdeep74]

Quote:
Just becuase you can build a rifle cheaper means nothing .
Would you do it for me for cost hell no!

I am a machine builder for a major oilfield service company and im sure i could build my own machine cheaper than they sell it for but then i would have to market it, make design changes ,back it liability wise,provide my own benifits and fund all the parts out of pocket
I think you're missing the point completely; people who are saying "you can build it for cheaper" are using the word "build" very colloquially. In reality, they are talking about the ability for a consumer to purchase parts of equal quality for a lesser price from a vendor (who is assuming all the costs and liabilities you are referring to), and assemble them into a useable firearm.

You're right -- if they were talking about literally building one, that is not something that could be done for less money. The word "build" gets thrown around a lot in AR circles, when they really just mean assembling parts that are essentially all ready complete

I dont think im missing the point in my sweetest baby jesus voice...lol
I think you are. The ones who are sying they could "build one"cheaper wouldnt do it for nothing for thousands of people would they, its a business meant to make MONEY not friends. .

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I actually like the looks of that 1911, but could do without the billboard. I'm not fond of that on any gun. I hate that Remington plastered it on their 1911.

 

[Erik M]

Nothing I have seen in pictures leads me to believe that the quality would best that of Noveske, Rainier, or LMT. This unsolicited ad will not change my opinion. Best of luck to them in future ventures as I was informed they lost their FFL license and one of the men in the shop took over management.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

Glocks are WAY better than 1911s. And they look better too.

[The Survivors]Blasphemy! You'll smoke a turd in hell for that.[/The Survivors]

Actually, I think the RJF ARs look pretty good. But, I'll keep my Colt.

 

[BrocLuno]

Still looking for a Hydramatic Div

 

[MikeRussell]

The ones who are sying they could "build one"cheaper wouldnt do it for nothing for thousands of people would they, its a business meant to make MONEY not friends. .

For thousands of people, I'd build them for $100 over cost. So, one like that pictured would be around $900.

 

[MikeRussell]

That's great. Just don't go and do something crazy like find a used metal lathe on Craigslist so you can start fitting your own barrels and modifying bullet molds. That's when you'll know you've gone over into the deep end!

Now if you'll excuse me I need to get back out to my workshop so I can put my new metal lathe together...

I would LOVE to have a lathe, it would definitely solve the problem of trying to get someone to machine a blank for me to fit a 7mm ARk project I'm wanting to do!

 

[MikeRussell]

The word "build" gets thrown around a lot in AR circles, when they really just mean assembling parts that are essentially all ready complete.

Which is what RJF is doing. They have a manufacturer put their rollmarks on the uppers & lowers, they buy their barrels, stocks, grips, handguard, & internals...then assemble them. About the only thing they may make is their flash hider, but if they were smart they'd farm that out.

Very few in the AR market make their own barrels/bolts/BCGs, few make a special upgraded trigger group, few make their own stocks, their are a handful of forges & manufacturers that make & machine upper & lower receivers. Most companies are just assemblers that may or may not do custom fitting.

 

[Tirod]

Well, I built my AR, and didn't use any Brand Name parts. Cost me about $1k, what the heck, doing the best I could over two years, I was still buying retail.

Oh, BTW, I have spent some time eating, sleeping, and sweating with one.

The first post needs some review - Gunny said up front he didn't care for the TV hype, it was a personal relationship with one of the assemblers and the recent distribution setup with a gunshop nearby. OK.

I think what might have set my teeth a bit on edge are the terms "Magpul," "sweet," and then a lack of info about what constitutes the gun, ie what parts?

The biggest issue with another "Maker" out there is that the AR fanboys do know very well who actually makes parts. If those sources aren't named, well, it could easily be import Korean, Chinese, or Israeli.

Hey, like it or not, parts are not all Made in the USA. And, if you bring your 1911's to the barbecue, can you actually know it is? Cause the six leading low price 1911's aren't.

At least I think I know where my Glock was made.

Entirely why some were making the TV show or who's got the FFL an issue goes to Not Sticking To The Freaking Topic, which seems to be an ongoing situation in this day of ADD and the internet.

So, aside from having some alternate stock supplier, and their logo all over it, and the assessment it's "sweet," just exactly are we supposed to think? Some creds would do better, like used by the #xx placed Three Gun Competitor, or built to milspec (and yeah, that's a nest of snakes.)

Otherwise, I could easily assume the gun I built was the better one. I at least know where most of those parts were sourced. For $1k retail, Red Jacket could have done it far less, buying parts in volume - and done it cheaper. There's a big difference in $599 S&W's, vs. a Colt.

Tell us why RJ is charging Colt retail, do we actually get our money's worth.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Entirely why some were making the TV show or who's got the FFL an issue goes to Not Sticking To The Freaking Topic, which seems to be an ongoing situation in this day of ADD and the internet.

Tierod, That was brought up in response to the Warranty issue. If the man can't keep his FFL and keeps getting sued for underhanded business acts then how could we trust that he will be in business to HONOR that warranty? Lifetime warranty doesn't mean squat if the guy is out of business 5 years down the road now does it?

 

[Tirod]

It took a few posts to express what you put in a few sentences.

We've gone five pages and still no idea of what's in the gun. Somebody tell me that, in one post, which I've already asked for, twice.


Barrel, chamber, twist, number of lands, profile, chromed or what?
Bolt carrier type, bolt material, MPI by batch or individually?
Who forged and machined the upper and lower?
Milspec or commericial buffer tube, buffer, make action spring?
Whose trigger?
Make flash hider?

AR parts have a legion of suppliers, it's been on the market 45 years. If this was a new bolt action we'd just say "how nice" and ask for a range target for accuracy. The maker would actually be ho hum, ok it's Who? A Kreiger barrel on a modified 700 receiver, oh. Of course it's a Fajen stock.

Semi auto actions are a bit more complex. What parts come from where is important. If you were gifted a 1911 it sure might make some difference if the parts were marked Shi Tzu Armory. Or Keltec.

Actual "Silverados" don't run 350 motors. If you own one, you need to know.

What parts are in this gun?

 

[Woodshark]

Churches do not pay income taxes, they still have to pay property, occupancy, utility taxes. It would not surprise me if they were taxed on equipment also. Municipalities regard churches as business like any other when it comes to leeching cash.

 

[crazy-mp]

Whats the deal with their QD suppressor flash hider? They use a external thread and no ratchet mechanism to keep the suppressor from backing off? Sounds like the future owner(s) are going to have many a baffle strike.

How quick is their QD mount? Look how many times the threads go around the flash hider, versus a real QD mount.

 

[Girodin]

Somebody tell me that, in one post, which I've already asked for, twice.


Barrel, chamber, twist, number of lands, profile, chromed or what?
Bolt carrier type, bolt material, MPI by batch or individually?
Who forged and machined the upper and lower?
Milspec or commericial buffer tube, buffer, make action spring?
Whose trigger?
Make flash hider?

The guy that is telling you it is a sweet rifle couldn't even correctly identify the stock that was on the rifle. I'd imagine he doesn't have a clue where the barrel came from or anything else that might be indicative of whether it is actually "sweet."


I'm not the one pimping these things but I'll take a stab at answer as much as I have been able to find. My response are in bold.

Somebody tell me that, in one post, which I've already asked for, twice.


Barrel, chamber, twist, number of lands, profile, chromed or what?

There are two options either a 1/7 Twist rate M4 profile chrome lined barrel or a match grade 1/7 stainless barrel. According to RJF website the SS barrel is "fluted for stiffness and superior accuracy." I'll let Will or his appologists try explain how fluting a barrel makes it stiffer or more accurate, should be very entertaining. Their website provides no info on chamber, lands, or, importantly, where these barrels come from

Bolt carrier type, bolt material, MPI by batch or individually?

Their website states the following (of course their website also states barrels are fluted for stiffness) "Bolt- Meets and/or exceeds all Mil-Spec requirements. Each is individually MPI and HPT (High Pressure Tested) tested and certified. High Nickel and Chromium content alloy for longevity and the ultimate in reliability. Every bolt is equipped with an extreme duty extractor and spring set. Fully stress relieved and surface hardened."

Who forged and machined the upper and lower?

RJF is not saying.

Milspec or commericial buffer tube, buffer, make action spring?


RJF is not saying.

Whose trigger?


RJF is not saying.

Make flash hider?

Some have said RJF is making this piece.

The OP has already stated he doesn't know any of this stuff. I asked him what then makes it sweet and he responded by denying I have asked and then saying that it has Magpul MOE furniture and a pretty finish and is put together near his home. I pointed out to him where I did ask and asked some followup questions and despite having posted since then the OP has ignored me.

My sense of it is that the OP is an acquaintance of Will who was not privy to the facts that indicate Will's character may be very questionable and who does not know a lot about ARs. He put up some friendly free promotion for RJF. Nothing wrong with that. I do think it is silly he got upset when people inquired about what made the rifle sweet or pointed out there were better values on the market.

 

[ugaarguy]

Girodin & Tirod, the specs on the RJF lists on the Shootrite Katana may provide some clues:

The Shootrite Katana
Barrel: 16-inch thin profile, with standard A2 diameter for sight base.
by E.R. Shaw
Flash Suppressor: Standard A2
Upper Receiver: Les Baer, Flattop w/o forward assist.
Daniel Defense, MPI bolt.
Modifications to bolt assembly:
Chrome silicon extractor and ejector springs.
Original solid firing pin retaining pin.
Bevel edge of ejector for feeding reliability.
Charging Handle: Bravo Company Gunfighter
Ejection Port Cover: Mil-Spec.
Gas Tube and Pin: Mil-Spec.
Handguard: Hiperform, Carbon Fiber one-piece unit.
Refinished in satin black, with sling mount and light rail.
Front Sight: Mil-Spec A2, with spring and detent.
Light Rail: 2 ” Picitiny Rail Mounted to handguard at 11:00 for right hand shooter.
(Rail bolted with washers and thin nylock nuts and epoxied to handguard.)
Front Sling Mount: Attached to handguard @ 6:00 position.
(Bolted and expoxied as light rail.)
Rear Sight: Daniel Defense, A1.5.
Katana Parts List – Lower
Lower: Daniel Defense Mil Spec.
(Logo engraved, manufacturer name, and Katana serial number to match upper.)
Internal Parts: Mil-Spec internals
Stock (Standard): Fulton Armory, A1 stock, with sling mount attached to left side, for right-handed shooter. (Bolted and epoxied as light rail.)
(Requires filling in hole from original sling mount, and painting flat black.)
Stock (Optional):Magpul CTR, commercial dia. retractable 6 position stock
Grip: DuckBill Tactical Grip.

ETA: Link - http://www.redjacketfirearms.com/in...&category_id=8&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=6.

Here are a few thoughts. There's a $75 up-charge for the MagPul CTR collapsible stock & commercial buffer tube assy. That, in and of itself isn't bad, but when you factor in the $1850 base, and $1925 total price it's ridiculous that you don't get a commercial buffer tube assy. The parts listed are good, but I don't see them justifying the $1850 price of the Katana.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

So ugaarguy, what you are saying is, They get about $800 dollars worth of parts, spend an hour and a half assembling it (very slow estimate) charge customer $1850 bucks. Damn I'm in the wrong business! I mean I can see making a buck and overhead costs and all (considering I have my own business) but DAYUMN that's awful steep for an assembly job!

 

[Robtattoo]

Pfft....Nancy boy substitute for an AK

 

[GunnyUSMC]

I know that others will state their opinion when I post something and I have no problem with that.
But don't go saying that I asked for your opinion, because I did not.
No, I am not one of the AR guys that has to know everypart of every gun.
I know how to use an AR and how to keep one running in the field and have used them for more then shooting paper targets.
I like the look of RJF's AR. Others here don't. Many say that they can build one for less, hell I know that I could buy the parts and build one for less.
But I didn't make this post to see how much cheaper others can build an AR.


I have many guns at home and I can't tell you who made every part on every one. I also think that S&W's AR is pretty sweet or should I say nice, it seems that some of you got upset the last time I used the word sweet. And I have no clue who makes their parts.
And does it really matter to y'all so much why I like RJF's AR.
I have never seen so much dislike for something by people that have never even looked at one.


I guess since I couldn't even correctly identify the stock set on the rifle, I have blown any chance to ever get into one of the AR fan clubs.

 

[eastbank]

well you sure as hell should know about rifles your giveing advise on, (japanese ww-2 rifle) i don,t have time for people who try to blow smoke up a customer,s AsS, if he would do that why wouldn,t he do it about another firearm?.the show is on par with pickers, storgage wars(just watched a show where S&W,colt,browning and a old win 86 firearm were found, worth over 20,000 dollars) and pawn store shows. not to mention the legal issues he has. eastbank.

 

[Tirod]

Gunny, I couldn't tell you exactly where every single part in my AR actually was made, this industry gets stuff from each other worse than a legendary biker picnic.

If there's an issue, like I said, the terms "Magpul" and "sweet" likely set it off. It tainted the entire nature of the post, and had it been done by someone with a different online monicker with less posts, it might have been ignored.

However, "GunnyUSMC" is going to give people a preconceived notion of a dry, hardbitten firearms expert. Precisely why I don't use any of my military rank or MOS qualifications as a handle. Raises too many expectations.

Apparently what RJ does is base a lot of the build on Daniel Defense parts, that's not a slouchy Brand, they do their own machine work. Remains to be seen how much RJ actually does. CNC lathes, etc., aren't cheap and require big capital investments.

Given that the original post came off sounding like a 2 post junior high schoolers infomercial on an adult forum about a duty/combat weapon made by a less than professional level TV show staff, it's really not surprising when folks got bent at the contrast. "Sweet" and "GunnyUSMC" doesn't work for them - which is a reflection on their bias, there it is.

The gun does sound overpriced, why not just get a DD and forego the Magpul entirely. The money saved would finance a 4G phone for a year.

I haven't worried much about joining the AR club, a lot of those guys haven't humped one or actually raised their hand and pledged their life to the Constitution. Considering they trick out their guns far beyond combat standards, it only shows their focus on CNC and credit card use to establish some social pecking order. Has nothing to do with actual service to their country.

They don't get free meals on Veterans Day.

 

[Sam1911]

High noise, Low signal = failure to communicate.