Redding 40 S&W Sizing Die Issue

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markr6754,
This is a long shot and I know your dies, cases, etc are already on the way. But just so you don't have similar issues with the Hornady dies, check the shell holder you have. From the surface that the case head sits on to the top of the shell holder that would touch the base of the die should measure no longer than .125". Less than that and you can adjust your dies accordingly. But longer than that it restricts the distance the brass can go up into the die. Do I think that if your shell holder is out of specs that it is the root cause of your issues... No, I don't think so. But if you bought a set of dies that were on the high side of Redding's tolerance zone and a shell holder that was on the high side of thier tolerance zone and your brass was a little on the thin side of their tolerance zone... all of that added together could easily add up to what you are seeing. It's called stacking tolerances if you have ever worked in manufacturing. If you have and you are familiar with it, sorry for the duplicate info.
I had a Lyman shell holder for 223 30+ years ago that was way to long (out of spec) that I had issues with. We always assume shell holders are a simple object and really don't check them. But it is part of the overall system and an important one. Just something to check and make sure it not a contributing factor. Please let us know what Redding comes back with.

If this is a shell plate on a progressive then this is a little different measurements as the shell plate doesn't dictate the same distance. but if the shell plate is too think overall it could restrict the distance the brass goes up into the dies. I don't have those specs off the top of my head. But I use a Hornady AP so if you use the same I can do some measuring of the 40S&W shell plate/setup and we could compare numbers. If you use a different brand progressive them maybe someone else could help if needed.

Steve
 
Mowgli Terry said:
Why don't we hold off until OP gets a reply from Redding. Additional speculation only clouds the issue.
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I understand taking things one step at a time.. But I wouldn't think taking 1 measurement of a shell holder to double check that it is or isn't in spec clouds anything in my opinion.
I even stated above that I don't believe it is ultimately the root cause. But any quick check right now to cross one more thing off the list of things it can NOT be is cheap valuable information any day of the week.
 
Shell holder: I'd be willing to bet, based on the way TC dies are made, that's not the case (terrible pun...) Taker your calipers and measure down from the mouth as far as the die sizes. This, is a friendly bet-OK. Who ever gets snarky first is the looser! We all are not really sure, other than the brand. exactly what of die we are dealing with. Let's see what Redding says. Keep in mind how far the bullet falls into the case.
 
markr6754 said:
I've been having some trouble with a new Redding Die set that I bought, in the off chance that I started loading for 40S&W. Since I had the die set, I may as well get some cases, so I ordered cleaned and polished Once Fired brass and went to depriming and resizing the 1500 cases. I'll skip that history, but in essence, "Glock" bulge. But even after passing through a Redding Push Thru 40 S&W die, and resizing again, these cases still don't fit in my Lyman loading block. I never went any further.
Last night I decided it's time to start loading some 40 S&W. I sorted out all 1500 cases (anal, I know), then attempted to flare/expand and prime a few. As I was testing the fit of my Berry's 40 Cal (.401) 155gr Flat Point bullets, I discovered that I could push the bullet all the way into the case. In other words...with just the smallest expansion I can seat bullets by hand. So I resized the case again, but didn't flare the case...and I can push the bullet to the bottom of the case by hand. Is there a way to tell if my Redding Die is an OVERSIZED die?

I measured multiple bullets from this newly opened box. They all read exactly .401...every one I measured. Is this the wrong bullet for 40S&W?
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That can happen if the case walls are thin. It's why I don't use Remington head stamp in 38 Special unless using fat lead bullets.
 
Re: Problems with brass and dies: I encourage anybody here to measure the diameter of your 40cal brass from very top to the base as far as the the carbide die sizes. I have loaded hundred and hundreds and hundreds 40 S&W with both lead and jacketed bullet and have not had any problems using RP brass. The reason I'm suggesting measuring is that most of the dies will size the case as nearly a cylinder. I think you can see that the mouth gets sized first. Leastwise, that's the way my Dillon 40 S&W's works Please note how far the bullet went in OP's case Not trying to be hardheaded but it does not look like a minor flaw in the shell holder would make any difference. I have not used RP brass for 38 Special in a long time so no comment. I am highly skeptical concerning this brass and shell holder suggestion. Ready to see otherwise when Redding replies. OK?

Addendum: Also note 40 S&W dimensions.
 
Mowgli Terry said:
Re: Problems with brass and dies: I encourage anybody here to measure the diameter of your 40cal brass from very top to the base as far as the the carbide die sizes. I have loaded hundred and hundreds and hundreds 40 S&W with both lead and jacketed bullet and have not had any problems using RP brass. The reason I'm suggesting measuring is that most of the dies will size the case as nearly a cylinder. I think you can see that the mouth gets sized first. Leastwise, that's the way my Dillon 40 S&W's works Please note how far the bullet went in OP's case Not trying to be hardheaded but it does not look like a minor flaw in the shell holder would make any difference. I have not used RP brass for 38 Special in a long time so no comment. I am highly skeptical concerning this brass and shell holder suggestion. Ready to see otherwise when Redding replies. OK?

Addendum: Also note 40 S&W dimensions.
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The shellholder shouldn't make any difference, since all the brass was run through a pass through bulge removal die.
 
That would have to be one screwed up shell holder. We'd have to come with some heavy duty excuses if Redding sent him a new shell [holder] and their best wishes. My Redding push through does not use a shell holder. My 40 caliber cases are FL resized first. With the push through very bottom of the case is sized used that way.
 
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Mark, hope you get things resolved without more frustration. My primary round I load for is the 40SW, 165gr. When i started I went thru the trial process of the case sizing, different methods, dies, bang head here, etc etc...in the end and over 7000 rds later, the Lee Undersized 40 die did the trick and still chugging along.
There is still an occasional case that will not fit but few and far in between and I'm using brass that I have reloaded 7 times. When the case does stick in my lyman case gauge, it's usually near the web portion of the case.
 
The push through die will deal with the case head. I'm wondering what is the difference between dimensions of my standard Dillon dies and the Lee Undersized die. This is for curiosity sake. OP's brass functions like once fired even after sizing attempts. .
 
Mowgli Terry said:
The push through die will deal with the case head. I'm wondering what is the difference between dimensions of my standard Dillon dies and the Lee Undersized die. This is for curiosity sake. OP's brass functions like once fired even after sizing attempts. .
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I tried the Lee Bulge Buster for a few thousand cases, but was still getting a lot of rejects that would not gauge. Thats when someone on the forum suggested the undersized die. Wish I could help you on the dimensions for the Dillon and Lee, but maybe the resident engineer @jmorris might have some insight.
 
markr6754 said:
Aubrey (A.J.) Ferris, Redding Engineer ... "Can you send the Die to us with some samples of your brass to examine and test with? If we find that your die is defective in material or workmanship, it will be replaced under warranty."
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Curious to hear what Redding found.
 
I was interested in a comparison between Dillon and Lee Under size die with real world numbers. The Wilson and Midway marked case gauges have done very well here. I have virtually no stoppages due to cartridges. The old style Redding push through dies has also worked very well 357 SIG and 10mm cases. The handguns in use here were noted for durability and reliability. The subject of this thread, those particular Redding dies, is strange.
 
Folks, I’ve been following along this thread quietly as I have nothing new to add. I haven’t had any response, yet, from Redding. They haven’t had the dies very long, though it wouldn’t have taken more than 10 minutes to check out the resizing die dimensions. Nonetheless, I have a few items to check on, including the functioning of my newly arrived Hornady 40 S&W die set. I was out of town since last Sunday, so I’ve just returned to see my new dies and a new electronic powder scale are here. At least with my new die set I can order my free bullets from Hornady.
 
I'm wondering if the upper sizing ring is missing. If this is a dual ring die and the upper ring is missing than it won't resize the mouth.

I don't see the upper ring in his pictures.
 
Might do well to check out the Redding catalog for the T/C and similar dies. The dual ring dies are top of the line and more expensive. There is another handgun die set that is more conventional and less expensive. OP's dies appear to be the Titanium Carbide or standard dies. Check it out. Look at the diagram of the double ring die. It is really hard to see how OP's carbide ring could be made that wrong.
 
Maybe they got their lower die rings mixed up and he ended up with a die with a "lower dual ring die" insert in it instead of the standard insert, it would be over sized.

If I run a case up into my Redding dual ring die without hitting the upper insert, I can push a bullet into the case like he is describing. So even if his is a single ring die, Redding may have mixed the rings up and he got a single ring die with the lower "dual ring die" insert in it, which would be oversized for getting neck tension.
It's hard to say, If his die is defective I doubt Redding will tell him exactly what the problem is anyways.
We'll see.
 
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I think OP had the die down on his shell holder. I could not tell from the diagram if the dual die was one or two piece. If he measured correctly looks like an upside down dual die arrangement would size the case the diameter of the neck. Is getting the rings mixed possible? I'm just guessing. I have never seen dual dies in person. Just speculation here. I have never had a problem with any of the major brand dies in handgun calibers. I'd think you would have caught these Redding factory goofs from the photo's. The answer may jump out at us. We could cypher though this problem if the dies were replaced.
 
Is getting the rings mixed possible? I'm just guessing
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We are all guessing at this point.
All I'm saying is I can replicate the OP's problem with this theory.

According to the diagram the starting bore looks the same until you get to where the primer punch threads down through the die. Are the dual ring inserts the same outer diameter as the single ring inserts, I have no idea.

If I were making them I would make the outer dia larger on the dual ring so they couldn't get mixed, that would make good business sense.

The dual ring dies have a lower ring, a spacer and an upper ring. The two rings have different inside bore diameters. the outer dia of the rings looks the same. The bottom ring is oversized so it doesn't produce the Coke bottle effect you see with a single ring die since the lower ring is over sized a little to not overwork the brass below where the bullet ends like single ring dies do. The top ring is used to resize to a smaller diameter and make the neck tension. If you clean and polish you cases your ammo will look like factory loads with one of these dies.
I wish Redding made them in .327FM and .41 mag but they don't yet. Only the most common straight walled cases.
 
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Thanks. We are all baffled by OP's problem. First, up Redding has a reputation of making very fine reloading gear. Second, we are all accustomed to not having problems with dies. I know my first response is always"...is this real." Something is definitely haywire with OP's equipment. I know of a situation where reloaders have gone back to the old steel dies to get rid of the "coke bottle." The only time a bad die turned up here was with a Lyman 45-70 sizer that was never finished. That die was quickly replaced by Lyman.
 
Hi forum buddies. Well, here's the update we've all been waiting for...Redding had a wrong size sizing ring in the sizing die. It is a one ring die, and the measurement I made with my calipers was the proper place to measure for this die. They replaced the resizing die. One thing that I noticed...the new die sizing ring is recessed just a bit, leaving a sharp edge at the bottom of the die (see pic). I don't intend to stick my finger there, but it would seems to me that cases won't resize as close to the base as the prior die...which didn't resize enough, but went further down the case wall.

First test completed...I re-resized 100 cases, all of which plunk very nicely into my Lyman Case Check (see pic of diameter), so for now I'll be satisfied that Redding CS took care of me. I don't believe that I ever needed the G-Rx push thru die, but at least I have one of them now.

Fortunately, this set arrived before I've even had a chance to open my Hornady 40S&W dies. I tested the resizing die immediately upon opening the mail. I have another 1400 resized cases to re-resize. Yay me! Inner Measurement of New Redding Die.jpg View of Sizing Ring in New Die.jpg Resized by New Redding Die.jpg
 
I won't be buying any single ring straight walled 40 S&W dies from Redding for a while. Not until this cycles through. There has to be more out there than this set.
Apparently the single ring and dual ring lower inserts are the same size on the outside dia.
 
markr6754 said:
One thing that I noticed...the new die sizing ring is recessed just a bit,
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Normal for them, a bit over done IMHO, but normal. My Lyman .45 ACP sizer does the same thing and rolls the soft steel over the ring a hair to help hold it in.

I had a Redding .45 ACP sizer lose its carbide ring. It was the perfect size so I super glued it back in. It came out again and I sent it to Redding. They replaced it but the new sizer scraped cases near the web (Sharp entrance on the ring). I called them and they told me I was sizing cases wrong. *Sigh* Neither of my RCBS sizers did it (One too loose for Remington cases, one too tight (Worked but coke bottle affect from heck)), nor did my last Redding sizer, and neither does the Lyman I replaced the bad Redding sizer with. I haven't bought a single Redding product since then.
 
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