Redding Type S Dies? Custom Die and/or Reamer?

[Blue68f100]

The Redding Type S Sizing die is a FL Body die (sizes from the shoulder down). You can body size loaded ammo with this if for some reason you don't get the shoulder pushed back far enough. You must buy the bushing sizes you need, they do not come with the die. You can also adj how much neck you want to size. Normally you leave a little over sized neck to help center the round when chambered. You should not reduce the necks OD by more than 0.005"-0.006" per stroke. So depending on chamber and weather the necks have been turned you may need to run it through twice. This is one reason to get the neck sizer too.

With a custom chamber you can get the necks so this is not a problem.

 

[Unicorn_Prince]

unless I knew I would never shoot anything else,

I do appreciate the all the advice as it had given me a lot more to ponder. But, I am confident I will only use monos as the options available in this caliber was one reasons I selected this cartridge to begin with. As of right now I plan on using a Defiance XM length action. The gunsmith assures me he can get the rounds I want to work in a short action Rem 700, however, if I do change projectiles it would only be to a heavier and longer mono. So all these modifications to the action and magazine start to add up in $$$ and become convoluted to get a short action to work for the cartridges I will be using. It seems a waste to have an XM length action and not fully utilize its extra length. Damn the PRC for not being a true short action or long action imo lol.

As far as being able to shoot 1/2 moa groups I can currently shoot 1 moa groups with my off the shelf 300 WM using brass that is on its 3rd or 4th reloading (lost count) and not sorted in any manner whatsoever. There's at least 3 if not 4 brands mixed in there so my thinking is if I can shoot this magnum that well it would not be unreasonable to shoot a custom rifle/action with better reloading techniques applied to 1/2 moa.

So to recap, I agree I may be doing some unnecessary steps for a hunting round. But, I want to be confident that if I'm not shooting 1/2 moa it's me and not the rifle or ammo. I will not be sorting by weight or volume or turning the necks. I will assume everything is good enough for my purposes as a hunting round and that's where some more advanced reloading techniques and hardware from what I've been using come in to help everything remain consistent.

I really do appreciate everyone's input even if I'm too stubborn to listen to it all the time ha. Keep it coming!

 

[Unicorn_Prince]

would want to do anything besides single feed

The plan now as I stated above is to use an XM intermediate length action and Defiance's bottom metal so I can have a true mid length action that feeds from a BDL style magazine. The LRXs if seated so only the boattail is below the shoulder and neck junction will put the COAL out past 3.00". So I guess that's another question, regardless of if using exclusively monos or not the conventional wisdom says that's as far as I will want to seat the bullet. Does anyone have any experience there suggesting otherwise?

 

[Unicorn_Prince]

I am going to get a Redding fl type S bushing die. But I think I have a real chicken and egg situation here. I need to have a loaded cartridge to measure the diameter needed for a bushing but I need a bushing to size the case. What's the work around here? @Varminterror @Blue68f100 @Toprudder @AJC1

 

[Demi-human]

Buy more than one bushing.
You’ll need them anyway.

 

[Ruger 15151]

+1 for Full length size and use an expander mandrel to set neck tension ( one of the most critical parts of reloading for accuracy in rifle). None of the top competitive shooter just bump shoulders and neck size any more. The problem with full length bushing dies is they are only designed to reduce the necks a maximum of .003 - .004 which is all guys need that have custom chambers. However, if you have a factory chambered barrel, your neck may need to be reduced .010 - .015 and a bushing causes a great deal of case neck run-out. If you call Redding their tech will confirm this. Some guys will even use 2-3 graduated bushings to try to reduce the round that can be introduced by a bushing die.

Therefore, I would suggest looking into Forster Dies. They will custom hone a Full Length sizing die for $15 ($24 if you buy it somewhere else and send it to them). You can either have it honed to the exact finished diameter you what or do like most and hone it to .004 under loaded diameter and run an expander mandrel through it to set the final neck tension. The latter is more useful if you are using different brass manufactures with different case thickness. You will not overwork your brass more than is necessary and you will get very little neck run out (.0005 - .001) on quality brass like Lapua without neck turning.

Forster also has Ultra Micrometer Seating Die that is better than the Redding Competition Seating Die and for much less money.

https://www.forsterproducts.com/product/full-length-sizing-dies/

https://www.forsterproducts.com/product/bench-rest-ultra-micrometer-seater-dies/

These dies can be found much cheaper from Brownells, Midsouth Shooters, etc...

 

[Varminterror]

I am going to get a Redding fl type S bushing die. But I think I have a real chicken and egg situation here. I need to have a loaded cartridge to measure the diameter needed for a bushing but I need a bushing to size the case. What's the work around here? @Varminterror @Blue68f100 @Toprudder @AJC1

No paradox. You have your brass. You have your bullet. You have what you need.

Brass neck thickness * 2 + bullet diameter - desired neck tension = bushing diameter

This assumes you’re using the bushing only with no mandrel, such you will most likely need to neck turn your brass for uniformity inside and out (which I personally believe requires a mandrel anyway). If planning to NOT neck turn, and to use a mandrel expander, then use:

neck thickness * 2 + mandrel diameter - 2 thou = bushing dia

And:

mandrel dia = bullet dia - desired neck tension

This will ensure the bushing undersizes the neck sufficiently for the mandrel to appropriately do its job.

Owning multiple bushings is preferred, if nothing else, to deal with new lots of brass, or to deal with use-thinning brass.

As I believe I mentioned on page 1 - there are assumptions in precision loading like this such you’ll be annealing and have relatively uniform brass, if not neck turned brass. Work hardened brass will spring back, but often not exactly how you’d expect.

 

[243winxb]

I need to have a loaded cartridge to measure the diameter needed for a bushing

New factory brass should have enough neck tension to hold a bullet. Find a way to seat a bullet.

Drill a hole in steel or wood that fits bullet. Seat using press. The shell holder doesnt need to be for the catridge. A 44 mag shell holder in photo.

Measure outside diameter of the dummy round neck. Buy 1 bushing .003" smaller. Go from there. If your feeling lucky, get a .002" smaller bushing.

 

[Blue68f100]

I never got by with just 1-3 bushings. I ended up with like 8 before I was done. It seams every mfg brass has a slightly different wall thickness. I eventually ended up turning the necks which required me to buy some more.

 

[Walkalong]

Buy more than one bushing.
You’ll need them anyway.

Owning multiple bushings is preferred, if nothing else, to deal with new lots of brass,

I never got by with just 1-3 bushings.

Yep.

Different case neck thickness needs different bushings, make an educated guess at it and get that, plus one above, one below.

.22 Hornet


Most of my 6MM bushings in the green case

 

[Unicorn_Prince]

Thanks everyone! I think I have the info I need to get started now. I really want a honed out die but in the long run sounds lime it will lack versatility. So I'm gonna start with a bushing die set and maybe change later if I see a need. I found a supplier using the exact same brass and projectiles I plan to use but its $160 for a box of 50! It won't be loaded to my OAL but it will be a good starting point I think and perfectly good for barrel break in.

Thanks again to all who contributed. I can move forward with a little confidence now im getting what I need and nothing I don't.

 

[Toprudder]

No paradox. You have your brass. You have your bullet. You have what you need.

Brass neck thickness * 2 + bullet diameter - desired neck tension = bushing diameter

This assumes you’re using the bushing only with no mandrel, such you will most likely need to neck turn your brass for uniformity inside and out (which I personally believe requires a mandrel anyway). If planning to NOT neck turn, and to use a mandrel expander, then use:

neck thickness * 2 + mandrel diameter - 2 thou = bushing dia

And:

mandrel dia = bullet dia - desired neck tension

This will ensure the bushing undersizes the neck sufficiently for the mandrel to appropriately do its job.

Owning multiple bushings is preferred, if nothing else, to deal with new lots of brass, or to deal with use-thinning brass.

As I believe I mentioned on page 1 - there are assumptions in precision loading like this such you’ll be annealing and have relatively uniform brass, if not neck turned brass. Work hardened brass will spring back, but often not exactly how you’d expect.

Nailed it.

I’m lucky so far, I only have one bushing for 223, but I go 0.001” smaller than desired and then use a mandrel expander to bring it exactly where I want it. I also turned all the necks.

 

[AJC1]

So you have encountered the main concern. If you use multiple types of brass you end up with a pile of bushings or end up neck turning. The best solution here is to buy one big lot of a single manufacturer's brass. This is helpful for a lot of reasons to include consistency of weight/volume, but will save a lot of pain in other area's. I would recommend 300 pieces. If your going custom do it right from the beginning.

 

[Ruger 15151]

Thanks everyone! I think I have the info I need to get started now. I really want a honed out die but in the long run sounds lime it will lack versatility.

Actually, a honed die is every bit as versatile. Most have their dies honed to .004 under loaded bullet diameter. Then, you simply purchase a universal expander mandrel die from Sinclair or 21st Century Shooting and an expander mandrel with a diameter that gives you the .0015 to .002 neck tension you want. Stainless steel expander mandrels aren't much more than a bushing for a bushing die so you really arent speading any more money.

http://www.xxicsi.com/expander-die-body.html

https://www.sinclairintl.com/reload...ls/generation-ii-expander-dies-prod38807.aspx

http://www.xxicsi.com/caliber-specific-expander-mandrels.html

You will find if you do some reading on precision long range loading techniques you will want to remove the expander ball from your sizing die because it introduces a great deal of neck run-out. Therefore, the only other way to set neck diameter (tension) is to size it down with a bushing or expand it with an expander mandrel.

- Bushings creates a perfect outside neck diameter and push all the neck thickness inconsistency to the inside diameter. Your bullet then becomes the expander which isn't optimal.

- An expander mandrel pushes the neck thickness inconsistencies to the outside diameter so the inside diameter perfect for the bullet.

You have received some great information on this thread already. However, the cartridge you are loading for is really for long distance shooting and you will find that your loading practices will need to be much more refined to hit targets at 1K versus targets at 500 yards. Also, I recommend you stick with one brand of brass. This will reduce the number of mandrels or bushings you will need and also allow you to set your sizing die for the shoulder bumb you need and leave it.

Anyway.... Good luck. That's a fun round!

 

[Woolecox]

This 5 shot group was fired from my PRS completion rifle. An Impact Precision 6mm Creedmore.

- Once fired Lapua brass, no neck turn, sorting, fussing, etc.
- Berger 105 Match Hybrid pointed, 42 grains H4350, Fed GM210M primer.
- Necks expanded with K&M expander mandrel.
- Cases shoulders bumped back .001" using Redding S Type Bushing die with .003" squeeze (no mandrel), and Redding Competition Shell Holder set.
- Bullet seated using Redding Competition Seater Die just kissing lands.

The only thing I do differently on fired brass is skip the expander step (unless case mouth is dented) since brass is fire formed to chamber. And, I anneal after every firing.

The same thing can be accomplished with the Redding Competition 3 Die Set but bumping the shoulder is a separate step. Bumping case back .001" is a must for smooth chambering for PRS competition.

I have used custom made dies cut with the same reamer that built the rifle when I was shooting Bench Rest Competition using a 6mm PPC. There was no gain in accuracy for me over the factory Redding dies. I have had top builder gunsmiths and competitors tell me "I can't build a die more accurate than Redding". I believe them. I didn't even say "having said that".