Reduced loads

[Stimovsky]

Several months ago, a fellow shooter let me shoot his S&W model 19, my favorite gun ever. I miss mine dearly.
After a couple rounds, I couldn't but notice the accumulation of unburnt powder on my mat. This was significant, like a lot of little green squares.
I didn't say anything because he probably knew better.

I've been a happy .38SPL, and .45ACP reloader for 4 years, then had to go through a 6 years hiatus and I'm back in the reloading business today.
I'm talking bullseye here, .45acp reduced loads: 3.7 gr WST behind a 200 gr LSWC. If I could get closer to a .22LR feeling, I would.

I'm now in the process of deciding if I should buy a new target .45ACP pistol or have mine upgraded for bullseye shooting..

One of the pistols I'm considering buying has this tendency to not burn everything it's fed, vomit flakes and not cycle properly.
The cycling problem will be easily solved with a weaker spring, but I could use advice regarding the unburnt powder.

I'm looking for consistency, and unburnt flakes make me uncomfortable, even though my shooting colleagues consistently advise me to ignore that very material fact..

I won't use any kind of filling material.
Please advise : should I use a fluffier/denser powder ?

 

[LUCKYDAWG13]

Maybe add a little more crimp would help you what powder are you using

 

[Blue68f100]

I've had not tested any 45acp load data down to 3.8gr WST. I've tested WST down to 4.0 gr and it was still burning clean there. My main plinking load is with 185gr LSWC, 4.1gr WST. I use the same load for 200gr LSWC. These are shot out of a custom 1911 with a C-More dot sight mounted on the slide. If I do my part it will shoot under 2" groups at 50 yrds. I have not done this in a while due to aging eye sight. 4.1 gr would cycle the gun without any major issues. I elected to drop the RS down to 16 lbs, 19 lb main spring with a nearly square (~1/64" radius) bottom FP retainer. This is one of the classic loads BE shooters have used for decades.

 

[Charlie98]

It's a matter of finding the powder that burns right with your particular bullet and barrel...

 

[MikeInOr]

For lighter loads I think you want a faster burning powder.

I loaded up some lite .50ae loads with H110 and made the mistake of shooting into the wind. I was covered with burning powder. Thankfully I always wear my glasses.

I tried some Hodgen 1650 for 50ae light loads and I no longer had little specs burnt into my clothing and skin.

I have used bullseye powder for lite .45acp and 9mm loads and have never noticed any signs of unburnt powder.

 

[Toprudder]

For lighter loads I think you want a faster burning powder.

I loaded up some lite .50ae loads with H110 and made the mistake of shooting into the wind. I was covered with burning powder. Thankfully I always wear my glasses.

I tried some Hodgen 1650 for 50ae light loads and I no longer had little specs burnt into my clothing and skin.

I have used bullseye powder for lite .45acp and 9mm loads and have never noticed any sighs of unburnt powder.

^^^ This ^^^

I personally like Clays for reduced loads in 45acp. Titewad is another that has worked well for me.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Another vote for faster powder. Clays, Bullseye, maybe Red Dot or Promo

 

[Charlie98]

Actually, I don't see anything wrong with your load of WST, it's in the same general burn range of some of the other powders listed here and at the right charge weight burns very clean. I'm fixing to work up some 200grn .45ACP loads with it, myself.

 

[ATLDave]

even though my shooting colleagues consistently advise me to ignore that very material fact.

You say it is a material fact. Is it? Are you getting wide spreads or big SD's in your velocity? Are you having accuracy problems?

 

[Bfh_auto]

I've never had unburned flakes of 700x. But it measures like trash.

 

[Stimovsky]

You say it is a material fact. Is it? Are you getting wide spreads or big SD's in your velocity? Are you having accuracy problems?

I have no data, and no reason to consider there's something wrong beside the powder on my mat.
I will listen to those advises above and test fast powders.

 

[mdi]

Nearly every powder will burn "dirty" if not loaded to it's optimum pressure. If a cartridge is loaded light, "target light", there will be unburned powder and be sootier. I would use my targets as an indication; good, consistent accuracy, reliable cycling but with a bit of debris on my mat? I'd use it...

"Dirty" is merely subjective; what's dirty to you is prolly clean to me. Every time I fire a gun I expect some GSR of some sort. But I have fired nearly 500 rounds in a shooting session, without cleaning, using a "reported" "dirty" powder and my guns functioned perfectly (once in a 1911 and once in a Ruger P90, approx. 500 rounds each). Sooty hands? That's why range bathrooms have soap and water and I take water and paper towels/rags with me when I shoot at an unimproved site. IMO, much ado about nuttin'...

 

[Toprudder]

Nearly every powder will burn "dirty" if not loaded to it's optimun pressure. If a cartridge is loaded light, "target light", there will be unburned powder and be sootier. I would use my targets as an indication; good, consistent accuracy . reliable cycling but with a bit of debris on my mat? I'd use it...

All else equal, if I could get the same accuracy with a different powder that burned cleaner, that is what I would use.

 

[Eddietruett]

I'm sure I will get bashed for this, but I now use Federal Magnum primers for all of my .38 Special loads. I like Federal because I have several Revolvers with real light actions and will get some FTF with other brands. I'm real careful when working up loads and rarely shoot any .38 that would be close to maximum anyway. I found immediately that HS-6 burns a whole lot cleaner with Magnum Primers and at that time I was shooting a lot of 130 & 158gr HyTek Coated lead bullets using around 6gr of HS-6 for both weights. Accuracy and cleaner shooting clean shooting both improved drastically when I went to Magnum Primers. I have since switched and my go to powder for every day shooting is Universal. I load 5gr for both 130 and 158gr Coated Bullets and get a little better accuracy with the Universal over the HS-6. I have about 2k Federal Standard SPP remaining and I'm using those when I load 148gr HBWC with 3gr of Bullseye but when those are gone, I'll be using Magnum Primers on everything. I actually saw very little difference in velocity with standard and +P .38 loads and I was very careful when working up any sort of new load for any signs of high pressure. But I have no problem with unburnt powder and it seems that everything I've tried burns as clean if not cleaner.

 

[redbullitt]

Good luck with red dot here on lower velocity 45 loads and it seems to be very clean. Bullseye is pretty much known to get the job done too!

 

[rfwobbly]

User mdi is right on.

Cartridges need to create pressure to burn the powder efficiently (read as completely). The issue with 45ACP not found in 9mm, 40, and other common calibers you may reload, is that the chamber pressure for 45ACP is about half of the others. So one of the properties you will need is a "faster" burning powder, but you can't always select these by simply looking at a "burn rate chart". Certainly those charts will give you ideas, but other properties like metering are equally important for consistently accurate ammo.

Looking at the chart, WST should certainly be in the right speed range. Since you already have that powder on hand, I suggest you check other physical properties that also have a huge impact on efficient powder burning before buying another powder...

• Is your bullet correctly sized for your barrel ?
• Is your Expander making your bullet fit your brass too loosely ?
• Is you bullet seated deep enough into the cartridge case ?

All these features work to hold the bullet back just long enough to allow the correct chamber pressure to develop. If you are getting the correct pressure and an efficient powder burn, then the inside of your spent case will usually be a light color or even completely clean.



Then again, some powders that burn correctly are simply known to be "trashy". (TiteGroup comes to mind.)

Knowing all this, some measurements and experimentation will get you there.
.

 

[Charlie98]

Looking at the chart, WST should certainly be in the right speed range.

I use WST in my 12ga reloads, it's a wonderful powder. A friend of mine suggested I try it in .45ACP, where he has had very good luck with it... so I did, a nearly max charge under a 230grn bullet. I was not overwhelmed... it didn't burn that clean, and I wasn't getting velocities like I was getting with my tried and true Unique load. Incidentally, I had the same thing with W231. My problem was... after I finally ciphered it out... was I was loading this under a 230grn bullet. Once I stepped down to a 200grn bullet... that's when both W231 and WST started to shine. This was all, mind you, out of a 4" barrel. That's why I always say...

It's a matter of finding the powder that burns right with your particular bullet and barrel...