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Registration = Confiscation?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by SigSour, Jan 6, 2013.

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  1. SigSour

    SigSour Member

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    Does anyone believe this would happen? I know it *could* happen but I'm not liking where this gun law thing is going.

    http://news.yahoo.com/white-house-mulls-broader-gun-control-washington-post-154313906--finance.html

    "A working group led by Vice President Joseph Biden is seriously considering measures that would require universal background checks for gun buyers and track the movement and sale of weapons through a national database, the newspaper said."

    That "national database" line makes me think of the government knowing EXACTLY who has what in their homes. If our government ever decided to take *any* action against its people (us) they would know who to go to first.
    They really trying to make gun owners the 'victims' - remember that maps that listed every permit holder in New York? What happens if (and when) the rabid anti-gun people decides to list everyone in the country (provided we are all forced to enter our into into a national database). Criminals would have access to their illegal guns and a handy map to where to get MORE.

    I really have a sinking feeling in my gut - you know when people "mean well" but end up making things worse than ever before and you can see it coming a ten miles away? That feeling.
     
  2. OptimusPrime

    OptimusPrime Member

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    They have to ask what that would fix. Connecticut shooter had her guns stolen from her, then used. What would any database have prevented?
     
  3. yokel

    yokel Member

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    We've seen how registration worked with full-autos, i.e., set up a registry, close it at some later date, choke off the supply and reduce the number of guns at large.
     
  4. MrTwigg

    MrTwigg Member

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    We no longer have a bi-partisan government.

    We have one party rule.

    Nothing is off the table.

    Trust your gut.
     
  5. MikeJackmin

    MikeJackmin Member

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    Forgive me if there are some inaccuracies which follow. The story is complicated, and I'm reciting this off the top of my head.

    As I understand it, the city of Chicago passed a handgun registration law way back when. After the law was passed, the executive branch to it upon itself to simply make the required form unavailable to citizens, thus imposing a defacto, total ban on handguns.

    It gets worse.

    Legal actions in the courts failed because - get this - none of the citizens who were denied access to the forms had any standing to sue. Again, this stuff is complex and I am not a lawyer, but as I understand it, _once we gave the city the authority to regulate handgun ownership, then it was no longer a protected right_. The city that has to the power register handguns also has the power to decline to register them, too.

    This is a big deal.

    This is not only relevant WRT registration issues. Consider any legislation that imposes requirements on private transfers, and consider the long-term effect on how the Second Amendment would be interpreted by later courts.

    Hopefully a more knowledgeable member can correct anything I got wrong here...
     
  6. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    Registration serves no crime-prevention purpose. Its only purpose is to find the guns so they can be collected.
     
  7. Zardaia

    Zardaia Member

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    Isnt NY already talking possible confiscation? And we already know many antis linke Finestein have stated they'd like to if they could. It's a gradual thing but the more rights we give up the more it becomes the new normal, eventualy even if it takes a generation or two confiscation will be what the majority wants. Stop the process before it has a chance to set in or it WILL eventually lead to outright bans and confiscation.
     
  8. CharlieDeltaJuliet

    CharlieDeltaJuliet Member

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    Beatledog7 is right, IMHO. If something else happens down the road, don't think the government wouldn't say" well this isn't working, so to ensure your safety we are going to take them and destroy them". The sad part is an overwhelming number of the people would blindly follow the government doing so.
     
  9. txgunsuscg

    txgunsuscg Member

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    They don't have to ask or show anything. All they have to do is lay out some imaginary fantasy for the people of the United States that don't know anything about guns other than what they read in the newspapers (including some gun owners, unfortunately), and they will work up the numbers to get it passed. I don't mean to be defeatist, but something is coming, and it will get passed. I had an argument with a cousin the other day (a gun-owner, BTW), and he is perfectly OK with all "assault weapons" being banned. And he wasn't interested in the actual facts about the power of the round, or the rate of fire, he had already gotten all the info he wanted from the media, and none of my actual experience with 8+ years in the military, including close quarters battle training and long-range precision training, was going to change his mind. The worst part is, I know he's not alone out there...
     
  10. 1911 guy

    1911 guy Member

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    Does registration equal confiscation? Yes. One need look no father than the late, great twentieth century. Britain, Australia, Germany, Poland, USSR, the list goes on. Rather than question it based on the assurances of those who claim otherwise, question it from a factual standpoint. Research every known registration scheme and follow it to its conclusion. Unarmed populations either squeezed under the thumb of a nanny state or ripe for genocide either by invaders or a criminal class armed in violation of said registration laws.
     
  11. Fishslayer

    Fishslayer Member

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    If you can come up with another plausible reason for a national gun registration I'm all ears...
     
  12. Deltaboy

    Deltaboy Member

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    History shows once they know what everyone has then they come and take them. Just look at England and The Aussies.
     
  13. Derek Zeanah

    Derek Zeanah System Administrator Staff Member

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    Just look at California. Didn't the CA DOJ decide that SKSes were legal but needed to be registered, then changed their mind and demanded all registered SKS rifles be turned in?

    That's how I remember it, but I wasn't in CA at the time...
     
  14. Guy B. Meredith

    Guy B. Meredith Member

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    Then there is the problem of a registration list being published as has been the case with concealed carry people.

    Gotta start educating and beating down stereotypes. When I get a chance I like to drop in videos of women shooting USPSA or some such. Would like to have a really good women's IDPA match with no-shoots eminently mentioned.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kci-eXzG5w
     
  15. TX_QtPi

    TX_QtPi Member

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    At the moment confiscation is declared all registered guns would have top be accounted for. Your gun doesn't have to be tattooed as it already has a serial number, registration is it's last known address.

    If outlawed, confiscation becomes a game of hide n seek, and you never, tell anyone your best hiding place or give away your location in hide n seek...


    best quote I have seen on this,
     
  16. buckeye8

    buckeye8 Member

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    What he said.

    Look How Well Canada's Gun Registry Has Worked

    There is simply no value to law enforcement with regards to solving crimes. Guns are already serial numbered, and chain-of-custody for firearms is typically not 1) important to solving a murder, or 2) difficult to establish using existing police procedures.

    Indeed, there is no practical purpose, aside from future confiscations. If we roll over on registration, we have taken our first step down the plank. There is no turning back from that point.

    They have plans for all of your firearms. Black rifles are simply the low-hanging fruit. Eventually...

    ...they'll take your semi-automatics (they just spray bullets).
    ...they'll ban calibers (.50 BMG and .338 Lapua have no civilian purpose).
    ...they'll take your "sniper" rifles (all centerfire rifles).
    ...they'll take your "military" shotguns (you only need 3 rounds for ducks).
    ...they'll take your ammo stash (you don't need all that, unless you are planning something evil)
    ...they'll call you crazy (Mental Health Checks) and say you're not sane enough to own guns (Hoarder? Eccentric? Signs of 'depression?)

    After all that, there will still be people who think their revolvers and squirrel guns are safe.

    And, predictably: Once registration and confiscation starts, some nut will go on some sort of shocking, bloody rampage to "send a message" to the Government, a la McVeigh, which will only accelerate the process and extinguish any remaining pro-gun sentiment in the general public.

    We have but one chance to stand. We must stand tall, stand together, and stand now.
     
  17. joeschmoe

    joeschmoe Member

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    The VP does not write the laws. I don't care what he thinks. Not important.
     
  18. Zeke/PA

    Zeke/PA Member

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    An old synopsis was:
    1. Registration
    2. Condemnation
    3. Confiscation.
    4. Subjugation
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2013
  19. autospike

    autospike Member

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    Yes. I don't know how anyone could think otherwise.
     
  20. Shawn Dodson

    Shawn Dodson Member

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    I lived in California in the 1990s. First we were forced to register our "assault weapons". Then, when "registration" didn't work, the state banned them. (I'd moved out of state by then.) You either: 1) sold the rifle to an out-of-state buyer, 2) voluntarily turned it in, or 3) it was confiscated.

    So yes, registation almost always leads to confiscation (because when registration inevitably doesn't "work" the next step is a ban.

    See - http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pdfs/firearms/forms/awguide.pdf
     
  21. gbran

    gbran Member

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    I turned in a non-compliant SKS during their mandatory buyback. They paid me $230. I could have made it compliant, but I only paid $129 for it and didn't shoot it much anyway.

    Trust me, registration will = some sort of confiscation at some point in time.
     
  22. wickedsprint

    wickedsprint Member

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    While she had no way of knowing she would be killed, I wonder if she would have secured them better if owners were held liable for not taking proper precautions to prevent theft of traceable weapons.

    This is no different than what we expect from Police and Military issued firearms.
     
  23. Guy B. Meredith

    Guy B. Meredith Member

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    The VP does not make laws, but the President can make executive orders that become law WITHIN FEDERAL BUREAUS if not voted down by a super majority of Congress within a given period. If that Federal bureau can claim ownership of some facet of firearms manufacturing, shipping sales or whatever they can be a problem. The use of the Interstate Commerce clause comes to mind.
     
  24. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    The assumption that the federal government would use registration as has historically been done to confiscate firearms and others point out that you have to make a series of assumptions to go from registration to confiscation and such assumptions are unreasonable.

    I point out the case of Australia where confiscation took place peaceably.
     
  25. barnbwt

    barnbwt Member

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    Registration does not necessarily equal confiscation. But it is a necessary precursor, and the most critical. "Constructive Confiscation" if you will ;)

    TCB

    I'd say she was held pretty damn liable for her actions :rolleyes:. Personal responsibility is only somewhat affected by laws (i.e. car insurance vs. texting while driving)
     
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