Discussion in 'Legal' started by 1911Tuner, May 7, 2007.

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  1. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

    May 22, 2003
    Lexington,North Carolina...or thereabouts
    Woke up early...0400 as usual...to a little rhetoric on the idiot tube that kinda threw me into a snit...so I thought I'd post my views. Run it up the ol' flagpole and see if anyone salutes.

    The topic of the blather was carrying guns...and of course, there was something said about "Strict Government Regulation" ad nauseum.

    I'm sorry. I have a real issue over any part of my life or my personal habits being strictly controlled and regulated, up to and including abusing my body with drugs and alcohol if I so choose...as long as I do it in the privacy of my own home, and it doesn't affect anyone else's well-being. What I own and carry...use and enjoy...or what kind of soap that I use to bathe, is my business and no one else's...most specifically that of the state or federal government.

    Kiddie porn is a no-no. Children should not be exploited for any reason, no matter how harmless the intent of the individuals who are exploiting them. If you like seeing children in the buff...there's somethin' wrong with your head. Seek help.

    The federal government's powers of control and regulation is properly applied to food and drugs...Immigration and import...building codes and inspections...and probably animal control. Aside from those and a few other things...as long as what I have and carry doesn't interfere with another's right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of whatever makes him/her happy...it's
    nobody's business but my own. Like my old grandpappy once advised a young, uppity Haralan County Sheriff's Deputy: "The only authority that you have over me is what I let you have." (And the old man was perfectly willing to demonstrate it to him if the need should arise.) Can't remember what the
    debate was about, but it was some silly somethin' that...although was within the lad's jurisdiction...was frankly none of his flippin' business because it had no effect on anyone except my grandfather. For those who aren't familiar with Harlan County, Ky...It's not the place to stir up trouble where it doesn't need to be stirred. 'Nuff said...

    So...I guess my basic questions are: How many feel that the various local, state, and federal government entities are assuming just a bit more regulation and control over our lives than they have been granted?

    How long will it be until what and how much we choose to eat and drink are "regulated and controlled?"

    How long until the amount of sleep that we get...and what percentage of body fat that we are allowed to have...and how late at night we're allowed to be away from home...are all "Strictly Regulated and Controlled"?

    Sorry for the rant. I guess I needed a sounding board after being so rudely awakened by a conversation amongst those talkin' heads who would assume authority over me and my personal practices..."For my own good."

  2. HKUSP45C

    HKUSP45C Member

    Nov 19, 2004
    Houston, By God Texas
    Our government has simply done what all of them do .... grow. I'd like to think that regulation in all forms is just plain bad. Private contracts and private funds are vastly superior to beurocratic meddling in almost all things, wholly. The "Free Market Anarchist" in me sees very little use for the .gov.

    That said, I think the government can be useful. That's the rub in my humble opinion. Just because it CAN be useful doesn't me it SHOULD be put to use. Can anyone name 5 .gov organizations or beuros or branches that have ever done the specific task they were given and then disappeared? Probably not. Mostly, I'd guess, because it doesn't behoove anyone to work themselves out of a job. AND, the people seem to like the idea that SOMEBODY is doing SOMETHING about ALL of life's little problems.

    So here we have 2 rather large problems. 1) Government grows, period. 2) People, in general, seem to be very much OK with that.

    The government, historically, will take ALL the power you allow it to. The people, generally, historrically, refuse to check the government. Bad JuJu.

    Yes, the .gov has FAR overreached it's intended purview. Short of a reset button we're going to have a tough time getting it back to the jobs it's "good" at. That's if the "mission creep" doesn't really start to run ALL the aspects of your life. Then we'd be helpless to stop the train wreck.

    Remember: There was never a social ill so bad as when a government program was adopted to fix it.
  3. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

    Dec 26, 2002
    Richmond, Virginia
    "are assuming just a bit more"

    A BIT? :what:

    Think I'll have another cup of coffee.

  4. jeepmor

    jeepmor Member

    Nov 6, 2005
    I have to disagree on many points, but in your favor, not the government's.

    The FDA works for the food companies and why they are allowed to put poison in our food at nearly immeasurable levels and call it a preservative or spice. Look up PBR40, Ethyl Lactate, for example. It's a nasty, nasty solvent, but also a food preservative. There are something like 15,000 approved preservative type products the food industry uses that if you just drank a glass of it or ate a 1"x1" cube of it, you would die in short order. That's not right.

    The same goes for prescription drugs. Why are we living longer than ever but also, simultaneously, being stricken with more and more ailments. It's the stuff in your food and drugs that the companies do not have to disclose because they effectively have bought our government off and can sponsor a study to get any result they want to gain government approval.

    Immigration, well that's another joke that our government is doing a woefully, and purposefully IMO, inadequate job. Sure, if people followed the rules it would work great, but people coming in from the Southern border just plain don't.

    As far as food, have you been paying attention, they are trying to ban transfats from everything. Sure, it's a good idea, but put a label on it like cigarettes and let the consumer decide for himself.

    And no I don't understand why sitting in front of a camera and simply being an argumentative a&&hole or a articulate speaker gives them the right to tell me what's good for me. It simply means you work in broadcast media, it doesn't mean, to me, that your an expert at anything but forcing your opinion on others, nothing more, nothing less. Let me live my life, I'll let you live yours. But don't tell me what's best for me, let me decide that on my own, and I'll let you make the same decision for yourself.

    Our government sucks, it's getting worse, and it's still the best one around. Too many people blindly amble through life complacent as all get at. Unfortunately, they are easy to manipulate, and they vote with their emotions, not their brains.

    OOOOOkay, rant off. Got me going there Tuner, thanks, no really. If this stuff doesn't bother you, there's something wrong with you. And as I've stated, I think there is a lot wrong with America and it won't be fixed by politicians, only perpetuated.
  5. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

    May 22, 2003
    Lexington,North Carolina...or thereabouts

    jeep...Agree 100% on the FDA thing. Noticed that the new drug advertisements on the tube carry so many warnings that a body has to wonder if the cure ain't worse than the disease.

    To keep this loosely gun-related...and I probably should just close the thread and/or delete it, since I may have violated THR protocol by posting it in the first place...

    As I stated at the opening bell...The topic addressed by the talking heads today was the question of concealed carry. One head said that he had a few problems with "civilians" going around armed to the teeth, and another said that she wouldn't worry as much if there was strict psychological testing and an extensive training period required...and then went into the same old "Need-Based" criteria before adhering to the shall-issue rulings...and yadda yadda yadda. Who are they to determine what I need? Whose call is it?

    It got me thinking...and the more I thought, the more I realized the dangers of strict government control as it slowly encroaches on more and more aspects of our lives. The camel's nose is in the tent. If we don't become as pro-active as they are, we'll lose this fight in another 10 years...and once we've lost 2A, the others won't be long in disappearing. I mean as aggressively pro-active as the PC Speech Police have been. The idea of any more strict regulation must be tagged as offensive and as insulting to we who hold to the RKBA as racist speech and actions are to various ethnic groups.

    I've come to resent the "Inbred/Redneck" tag associated with gun ownership. I feel very insulted by those who feel that I'm mentally deficient because I choose to carry a gun. I'm angered by the notion that I'm somehow on the fringe because I want to retain the ability and the means to get along without the help and guidance that "Big Brother" provides...and that I'm paranoid because I maintain a firearm and ammunition for the purpose of self-defense, or any other reason that I deem fit for my lifestyle...be that hunting or skeet shooting or keeping the wolf away from the door...or just because I happen to like fine weapons, and want to look at'em once in awhile.
  6. hammer4nc

    hammer4nc Member

    Jan 2, 2003
    Don't get me started...

    The growth of civil bureaucracy is one of the most destructive trends in the last half of the 20th century, in the USA. The bureaucrat/parasites WILL collectively drag this country down unless the the trend is reversed. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening anytime soon.:mad: Exactly the opposite, they are spreading like crabgrass.

    Of course, every one of the self-righteous bureaucrats will point to a seemingly valid concern their agency addresses, to protect the public. "Food inspection stops tainted food", for example. The problem is, while there may be a kernal of truth in preventing a problem, they don't know when to stop. The template for growing these agencies relies on the "pigeonhole" concept of responsibility. Up and down the chain of command, the regulations become king, and any discretion or judgement, related to the ultimate goal or mission, is discouraged. (Afraid of accusations of "favoritism"). Of course, no regulations can foresee all possible situations that might arise, and blind code enforcement leads to utterly wasteful and counterproductive, sometimes even destructive practices. Ultimately, the bureaucrats work toward expansion and glorification of their empires. I often quote the 90/10 rule of government...90% of expenditures goes for growing the agency; 10% toward the actual core mission of that agency.

    In short, the proposed "cure" is worse than the disease.

    I think it was John Stossel who once reported that Mother Theresa's order wanted to set up a mission in NYC. After getting a taste of the regulations they'd have to comply with, they packed up their bags and left; saying their resources would be better applied elsewhere.

    Edit - found cite:""elevator""code"&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us

    Here's a couple of first-person examples from just the past year:

    1. Issue: Erosion control and stream pollution. I did some work, related to a housing development. The usual stuff: build temporary checkdams and settling ponds for erosion control, while the development was underway. At conclusion, the areas are seeded, channels riprapped, etc. and the temp structures removed. We're nearing completion, when after one inspection, an inpector finds one small area of silt escaping, questionable at best. So out of the blue, he issues a 3-day corrective order, with $10,000 per day penalty for non-compliance. While we could have competed the work easily in about 10 days with the equipment/men on hand, the developer instead had to call in emergency weekend equipment and personnel to do the work in the required timeframe. It got done, at no small expense! We contacted the inspector, for approval, only to find out he had gone on a two week vacation! And, made no arrangements to delegate his responsibilities! No way to get approval in the 3-day order! At that point the developer thought he was being shaken down for fines, and started lining up lawyers anticipating a fight. Well, two weeks later, the inspector returns to work, quietly approves the work we had done. The three-day order? Oh, well, don't worry about it! :cuss:

    2. Issue: EDB and well water contamination. EDB is an organic fumigant that was used for tobacco farming, now seeping into groundwater...not a good thing. Recent advances in testing allows parts per billion detection of this compound, and corrective action written into law. A few years back, it was detected in a well serving a small 40-house community water system. So, we had another well #2 drilled, and its water tested ok, problems solved. About 2 years later, EDB shows up in well #2 also. Plan B is to install a massive charcoal filtration system in the water system, which was done at no small expense. This system works great. Water tests clean. Now, one small problem is cropping up. People are using more water, and the second well sometimes can't supply the necessary volume to keep up with demand. So, how about re-activating the original well, running both through the filtration system; plenty of clean water for everyone? Sounds great! We re-activate the well, and sure enough, >40 gallons per minute. :) After doing the work (again verbally approved by the inspector), he says whoa, the original well can't be re-activated because the new code says the well head must be 100 feet from the road! (Well #1 is about 80 feet from road, but because its been abandoned it can not be re-activated; well #2 (the aproved well) is only 40 feet from the road, but its good to go because it hasn't been de-activated, and thus is grandfathered! Right now, the homes are under voluntary water restriction to cope with the situation.:( So solly, there's nothing we can do!:scrutiny: :scrutiny:
    Last edited: May 7, 2007
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