Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Tim A Marcia, Mar 14, 2020.
I've heard arguments for and against this practice.
What do you do?
I’ve heard the arguments too. I make better vs legal liabilities. I don’t think there is a clear cut answer. Personally, I carry commercial ammo just because I don’t want to add any more legal grey areas to the situation. They say the average SD situation is about 10 ft or less, and even if my hand loads are a little more accurate, and a little more powerful, I think at those distances it won’t matter much (for me).
It is discussed intensively before - see https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...f-handloads-in-self-defense-shootings.821474/
This isn't my forum so I'm not closing it but the OP should see if the sticky answers the questions as we have done this so, so many times. Also, google it.
I make carry ammo to practice with. My EDC has Rem Golden Sabre's loaded. In a self-defense legal situation the ammunition that you used WILL be scrutinized. If you were found to have shot the other guy with glowing green super duper zombie killers I guarantee it will be a talking point in your Grand Jury indictment / trial.
Hand loads will get similar scrutiny except you are now a gun nut that gave the decedent no quarter when you shot him with over powered ammo putting the victim and the general public at greater risk.
The people making these arguments are likely to be the same ones trying to bring down the 2nd and there will be no holds barred.
The legal liability argument is hypothetical. I'm much more concerned with firing hundreds or thousands of the rounds I'll be carrying through my carry weapon so that I know exactly how they perform and that they will not be prone to jamming. I'm much more likely to fire more of these rounds through my gun if I'm handloading them for a fraction of the cost of quality defense loads. BUT, this is what I do. I'm not trying to convince anyone else to do it. What you carry in your gun doesn't affect me. If carrying factory loads makes you feel better, by all means do it.
I can pull it down if you prefer. I'm new to this forum. I am having problems with my carry ammo. I rechamber rounds frequently with less than desirable results and at the price of factory ammo, I was just wondering what people do. The link you provided is very interesting. Thank u
Keep it up. If a mod wants it down, moved, or merged, they'll do it.
If you're having problems with your carry ammo, and it's costing you as much as factory ammo, I think it's a no-brainer. Buy and carry factory ammo.
I started visiting reloading forums in 2005-2006 and this subject was bashed about then and every so often rises up again. Of the thousands of posts and opinions I've seen there has never been a consensus reached, not even close...
My opinion; I am confident my "Just in Case" ammo is as reliable as any factory made. Also, I haven't seen a real, factual report of any shooter being prosecuted for "killer, premeditated" handloads, other than an "expert's" opinion...
This is the main objection to SD handloads and at best is only speculation...
I carry factory, IMHO one less "technicality" to sweat legal-wise. When I took my CCW class the instructor was LE Training officer. One good point he made was that for the commercial ammo makers that catered to LE there was a chitload of testing available, especially the GS Residue tests.
But I only carry factory premium SD ammo that I can buy components for. So far that's been Speer GDHPs, REM GS, and now the Sierra V-Crowns. Speer GDHPs are my favorite as they do well in testing and can be found in LE 50rd packaging VS the 20 or 25rd boxes. My normal procedure is to test & chronograph the factory SD ammo, then duplicate it.
Carry what you can shoot a bunch of for practice. The difference between a good hit in one shot and hitting a bystander because you did not practice is not even the same game. Normal loads can be explained and will be investigated. Specialty ammo will cause more problems. RIP rounds, black talons, incendiary rounds are not going to help your case. The one exception may be frangable rounds if you have kids or live in an appartment.
The quote from '40 Cal' in post 8 above (and other similar comment) reflect my thoughts on this matter.
Loading/shooting someone with the latest/greatest SUPER KILLER 9000 bullets loaded to +P+ can make a Jury raise an eyebrow as to your true intentions, especially if the Perp is portrayed by the Defense as 'just a poor, underprivileged kid, sang in the Church Choir, and never would have hurt anyone!!!!'
While packing SUPA KILLA'S loaded to the MAX is certainly not a conviction in itself, it can be spun / combined with other info/data to portray a negative image.
I carry my own reloads. RMR had some pulled 124 Speer Gold Dots a while back. Bought 1,000. Loaded a couple hundred w/Sport Pistol (just under max.) for testing/carry.
Latest/Greatest? Hardly, but it's a tried and true SD projectile, even if it may not produce the same size wound cavity or penetrate Gel as deep as a SUPA KILLA!!!
I'm also confident they will perform as needed for PD without giving the impression I was "just looking to KILL someone".
As always, YMMV.
Given the choice of the poll, I actually carry factory ammos. Like Chuck, I reload factory SD ammo equivalents to practice with... but using the poll question '
Yes, I make better ammo to carry' the answer is no. I've been loading for over 30 years, and I can kick out some good ammos, but for consistency and reliability... factory only. That includes my carry piece, and the myriad weapons around the house which include a 12ga and 5.56mm.
I was told if you carry your reloaded ammo it just gives the lawyers something to use against you. How do they know you didn't load them hot, therefore more deadly? I was also told to keep the receipt and write on it in pen that it is for your specific carry gun and that they can carbon date it. Don't know how much this would help though.
As others have mentioned, why risk the grey area? You don't know who is going to be on the jury. Are they going to have an understanding of guns and ammo? The way the world is going they may think you're crazy just for carrying a gun. You can always try different ammo or even a different gun.
Here is a recent foray into this subject:
In California you would be done just for owning a gun, and I going to be stuck moving back.
In reality your own knowledge of loading and firearms may be your best defense. We all know you can buy almost anything to include +p which the cops use, are they killers??? You also know that there is no appreciable difference between handgun lethality.
In related news I would want my target loads in a sd shooting because they are my most accurate.
Has anyone ever seen any proof that someone involved in a shooting was even questioned about the ammo used ?
If I get a load I like, with a good and proven bullet, that is travelling close enough to factory velocities that I can be confident the bullet will perform as it does in factory ammo....then I might carry it.
But really, it's just easier to buy factory.
An often discussed topic with many vehemently opposed to hand loaded ammo for carry.
I carry home rolled ammo. Not because it is better than factory. It isn't, I carry it because I want to and it affects nobody else.
Yes, there may be an infinitesimally small chance of legal complications arising from the use of hand loads in a self defense shooting when the "stakes are high".
I've heard it all many times and I've made my choice.
I carry factory ammo, but it makes for a good debate that often turns into less than THR quality banter.
We shall see.
This being the internet I will not bet against you.
In that regard, THR does pretty good compared to other Forums.
We all have our preferences. Makes no matter to me what anyone else carries. Doubt I could care less.
With that being said,,,,
I DO know, without a doubt, that Ballistic Labs, etc can prove certain things about a shooting.
If they ever have to dig one (or more) of my Gold Dot's out of someone, the pull marks (that were there when I bought them) will at least prove that I'm a cheap-azz!!!
You can't load ammo more consistent then factory and just as reliable? I know my ammo is way more consistent then most factory and my ammo is every bit as reliable as factory.
1st of all, I'm NOT flaming anyone!
But I don't understand practicing with 1 kind of ammo & carrying something different.
I want to train with & carry the exact same ammo.
Therefore I carry my reloads.
Just my 2¢ worth
Of course, as always, YMMV
I carry a 9mm. I know how to handload, have done it some in past, but don’t at present. I don’t see any big advantage for myself in resurrecting that skill for 9mm SD loads. There would be a cost advantage...maybe. I’d have to purchase handloading equipment to replace what I sold or gave away, new dies, etc., and for the several hundred dollars that would take I can purchase several hundred rounds of good SD ammo. I put said ammo thru the carry gun, ensure my satisfaction, I load up the mags for carry, and I’m done. Now, if problems were to arise during ammo testing, maybe a different route would be taken. But since my Glock loves the SD ammo I’ve chosen, and I even have friends in Grand Island, well, Hornady CD it is. For me. For someone reloading every winter evening already, it’s a different set of equations to solve. And so on.
If a shooting becomes a lawsuit in California, the issue will be raised during discovery.
Here in Utah, the most popular reference is Mitch Vilos' Utah Gun Laws. He never mentions it. So I think it seldom happens here.
My guess is that this varies from state to state.
That said, I use commercial ammo when I reasonably can, but sometimes mix in reloads.
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