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Reloading defense ammunition !!??

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by ArkansasFatboy, Jan 15, 2007.

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  1. ArkansasFatboy

    ArkansasFatboy Member

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    :confused: Guys do you reload your ammo you use for personal defense? I was told it was better not to because if it ever came to the point that I actually had to "cap" a bad guy that the fact that I had reloaded my own ammo would go against me in a court of law. I was told that a liberal lawyer would try to say I just loaded the rounds to kill people. Well I guess that would be true that would be the whole idea but we that hold ccw permits don't go around looking for people to shoot in fact I hope to never have to pull my gun in self-defense but if I ever pull it I will follow thru and it will not be to wound the offender. But any way I digress do you or do you not reload your own self defense rounds:confused:
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2007
  2. cloudcroft

    cloudcroft Member

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    ArkansasFatboy,

    Yes.

    -- John D.
     
  3. Grumulkin

    Grumulkin Member

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    It's not just the "liberal" lawyers that will try to get you but ANY lawyer out to get money for himself/herself and the client. I would never if I had a choice use handloaded ammunition for self defense. If possible, find out what your local police or sheriff's department uses and go with that.
     
  4. Kimber1911_06238

    Kimber1911_06238 Member

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    I wouldn't.....just because you can already tell that the lawyer would use the excuse that you were loading "special killer bullets"
     
  5. Mark whiz

    Mark whiz Member

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    Oh Boy....................this will start up a war of words - just like it always does.

    COULD a perps family's lawyer try to use the fact that you made your own "killer" ammo to slay the criminal??? Yes - freakin' lawyers will try anything to make a buck. :cuss:

    But here is the truth, up until now - there is absolutely ZERO evidence available that this has ever been successfully used in a court of law. In one's defense, all you have to do is point out the number of personal defense rounds being sold as such today by various manufacturers and their attack would become moot. And let's face it - EVERYONE knows guns can kill, and typically juries could care less about what particular bullet was used. Any jury that shares at least a half of a brain between the group, should see that as a totally vain attempt to obtain some sympathy.

    Oh, BTW..................if you ever have to defend yourself in such a way - empty the mag, clip, etc on them. Dead men can't sue and the families of such deadbeats rarely do sue because they have already written them off as dead anyway and have little or no knowledge of their whereabouts or activities. (As a side note - it can be argued that emptying the clip was an instinctive act of preservation on your part, further justifying that you felt you were in mortal danger).

    The biggest thing in defense is to make SURE that deadly force was necessary in the first place. If you know the law and that it was a "righteous" shoot - even if you end up in Civil court, you should come out smelling like a rose because the authorities would have already cleared you of wrong doing.

    That's my 2 cents worth, anyway.
    BTW - I do load my own defense ammo..................not because I make it more powerful, but because it is more accurate - Thereby putting any innocents in the area at less risk of being hit by an errant shot (another good court argument in your favor).
     
  6. darwin-t

    darwin-t Member

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    I wouldn't carry reloads, but if I did I'd get some factory ammo, pull the bullets and reload with my own choice of powder and bullets. At least that'd eliminate the chance of a primer not going off.

    I don't see any good reason not to use factory ammo, though. They do a lot of research to get the best performance and have a pretty good record on dependability.
     
  7. dmftoy1

    dmftoy1 Member

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    I think in a perfect world you'd only use factory ammo for self defense. That being said it would get pretty expensive to practice with quality SD factory ammo. I know that alot of people say you should reload to duplicate the factory ammo and then shoot reloads for practice and factory for SD.

    My personal opinion is that if you are going to use a pistol for SD the absolute most important thing is to be able to place your bullets. To that end the only way you're going to do that is to practice . .practice . . and practice some more . . . .and the only way I'm going to do that and be ensured that my gun reliably feeds my SD ammo is to reload. I just have a problem with buying 400-500 rounds of Speer Gold Dot ammo to burn through my SD weapon just to be "sure" that it'll function when I can make my own so much cheaper. Hopefully I'll NEVER have to know whether it would make a difference in court . . I think you're pretty screwed by the time it gets to court either way. (just my .02 from having been deposed by lawyers for various work related patent lawsuits)

    Have a good one,
    Dave
     
  8. Phillip Allen

    Phillip Allen Member

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    I have three loads for my .357 revolver: a general purpose load with my own cast 196g shilouette bullets, the same load with carefully weighed bullets and sorted cases (for practice at 75yds) and shot shells for fishing trips (snake loads)...that's it. A lawyer would be hard pressed to make a "good" argument that I lay awake at night plotting ways to kill people with my "special" loads.
     
  9. Ben Shepherd

    Ben Shepherd Member

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    I carry my own handloads for CCW purposes.
     
  10. Steve H

    Steve H Member

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    Next they (the lib lawyers) are going to tell you where you are supposed to aim....................
     
  11. duckslayer

    duckslayer Member

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    Unless you dip them in snake venom, it would be difficult to prove you loaded "extra deadly" bullets.
     
  12. The Bushmaster

    The Bushmaster Member

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    Not really...They will ask (demand) samples of your ammunition used in the "crime" (sorry...I spent a bit of time in the USSR of cal and just owning a gun makes you a criminal).:mad:
     
  13. Steve C

    Steve C Member

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    I use factory ammo, usually police surplus +P or +P+, in my 9mm's and .45's not because I'm worried about reloads putting me in legal jeopardy but because I can't load anything more effective than the factory for those calibers.

    In the .38 spl, .357 mag and .41 magnum its pretty much dependant upon the whim of the moment as to what gets loaded since I can load ammo that's as effective as factory ammo in those calibers and I keep very limited supply of factory ammo for these calibers.

    The only time ammunition becomes an issue is in a police shooting since officers are bound by dept. policy and lawyers can make an issue of not following dept procedures and policies.
     
  14. moxie

    moxie Member

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    I use factory ammo for SD and practice with

    reloads I make to closely duplicate the factory ammo.

    In response to darwin-t's comment:
    "I'd get some factory ammo, pull the bullets and reload with my own choice of powder and bullets. At least that'd eliminate the chance of a primer not going off."

    This is really a long way around the horn. Are you seriuos??
     
  15. nitesite

    nitesite Member

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    Keep in mind the flash-suppressed blended powders used in many brands of premium personal protection ammunition.

    You can't get that with the powder you buy off the shelf.
     
  16. darwin-t

    darwin-t Member

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    In response to darwin-t's comment:
    "I'd get some factory ammo, pull the bullets and reload with my own choice of powder and bullets. At least that'd eliminate the chance of a primer not going off."

    This is really a long way around the horn. Are you seriuos??

    end quote

    If I were going to carry reloads, yes, I am serious. Aside from one squib (and I don't think I'll ever see another one of those in my lifetime - I learned my lesson on that) the only way my reloads have ever failed is a failure of the primer to go off. With the pistol I have I can just keep pulling the trigger until it works, but that wouldn't be a desirable plan of self defense.
     
  17. Top_Notch

    Top_Notch Member

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    Ask Harold Fish. After being convicted by a jury, one juror interviewed said the use of JHP swayed his vote. I could only imagine had he rolled his own.

    Also, the prosecution made issue of his 10mm (more powerful than a police gun).

    with this high powered gun, hollow point bullets and caused his death. That’s murder.

    Don't fool yourself.
     
  18. Mark whiz

    Mark whiz Member

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    Top_Notch

    You "Imagine" he rolled his own????
    I would need many details of Mr. Fish's case before I would even think to assume reloaded ammo had any impact on his verdict. Just because a juror was "disturbed" by the use of JHP munitions, doesn't mean it was handloaded. In fact, ALL defense rounds (except the fragible ammo like Glaser rounds) are JHPs of some type - even the LEOs use them. With this kind of thinking, if he had used SWCs - was he using the assailent for "target practice"?

    Also was this issue in Civil or Criminal court? If in Criminal court, the type of bullet was a moot point - the issue in Criminal court is the legality of the shoot, not the method. Civil court is where the type of bullet MIGHT be held in question.....................but like I said before, it the shoot was already adjudicated clean in Criminal court, Grand Jury, Law Enforcement investigation, etc - you are legally in the right for the use of deadly force. Therefore it wouldn't matter if you used a JHP, SWC, a shovel, or if you pushed them out a window. :what:
     
  19. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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    No matter what ammo you use, it can be turned against you.

    Get factory ammo? You deliberately bought the most deadly ammo on the market, for the express purpose of killing people.

    Buy the same ammo the local PD issues (a common recommendation for avoiding legal trouble)? Then you're a dangerous cop-wannabe vigilante that needs to be taken off the street.

    Use FMJs? You're using deadly military ammo that's designed to kill as many people as possible by shooting through lots of them, and that *dramatic gasp* actually spins when it comes out of the gun! Horror!

    Just use the best ammo for the job. If you're confident in your ability to make ammunition that's as good as or better than the factory stuff, go for it.
     
  20. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    I think that it is something that a clever attorney would put into the mix to confuse the jury. But I also think that if you used HP bullets they might bring that to the mix as well, implying it is somehow especially bad to shoot someone with HP bullets. Or if you were carrying ball ammo they might ask you what you think you were doing carrying military style ammo out on the streets?
     
  21. PotatoJudge

    PotatoJudge Member

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    Mark whiz:
    I think Top_Notch meant to say something like "imagine IF he had rolled his own," as in "think about how much worse it would have been for him (and anyone in his position potentially) if, not only had he used hollow points, but had specifically handloaded them for that purpose."

    I'm indifferent on using handloads for SD. I know it may matter. It may make things better for me, it may make them worse. I have no idea which is more likely, so I use whichever I lthink is best for a particular gun. As long as it's a good quality HP that is.
     
  22. ATAShooter

    ATAShooter Member

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    I carry reloads.
     
  23. SIRVEYR666

    SIRVEYR666 Member

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    IMHO

    Once it goes "BANG", it's out of your hands...regardless of the ammo that came out of the muzzle. Just hope that you made the absolute correct split-second decision.
     
  24. Top_Notch

    Top_Notch Member

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    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15199221/

    My point was, the prosecuter made it a point about using a 10mm ("More powerful than a police gun" and using JHP "designed to kill". My point was had the loads been "reloads" I could see the prosecutor making a point of that as well ...

    "See, he used extra special deadly powerful ammunition designed to kill and made by the client himself! He was obviously out to kill someone..."

    A stretch? Given that the prosecutor made mention that he used a 10mm with JHP... I don't think so.
     
  25. hossfly

    hossfly Member

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    Massad Ayoob strongly recommends loading your defense weapons with factory loads. I'm a reloader myself and do all my shooting with handloads but the guns stays loaded with factory loads when it's at rest.
     
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