Reloading - Having 2nd Thoughts, 3rd Thoughts... COST OF BRASS :(

[Canazes9]

Maybe I missed this in the discussion, if so my apologies.

My question is, if these calibers aren't "SHTF" requirements nor are they effective barter material why are you trying to stockpile 1000+ rounds of loaded ammunition? Seems to me you would do just as well to buy 200 rounds of brass and enough bullets, powder, primers etc. to load the other 800. You can have 200 rounds loaded in your cache and the ability to make the other 800 as needed. You will need to keep the press, but this seems a lot more cost effective to me than what you are describing.

Not familiar with loading the rounds you have listed, but would think it would be reasonable to expect at least 5 reloads out of your brass, except perhaps the 375 H&H - might get less from this, but I really don't know. Even if you assume only 3 reloads per case, 350 rounds of brass, bullets, powder and primer will still be worlds cheaper than 1000's of rounds of loaded ammunition. Additionally you will still have the press, which I believe will provide you a lot more options in both current day and post apocalypse scenarios.

JMO,

David


Edit - darn it Lost Sheep beat me on the keyboard....


David

 

[Mike1234567]

RE: Replace .458 SOCOM with .45-70 or .458 Win Mag to save on brass cost...

I've looked into those. Isn't it trickier to load those subsonic? If it can easily be done with consistency then I'll definitely reconsider.

ETA: The typical .45-70 has a very slow twist rate which really worries me regarding stabilization of heavy/long projectiles so the 1:14 twist rate of the SOCOM is a strong selling point for me. IIRC, the Win Mag has a pretty slow twist too.

 

[Frozen North]

I think the bottom line and what the common theme of these posts is that you either need to make some compromises or commit spend your nest egg on ammo. You just can't have it both ways.

 

[Mike1234567]

Maybe I missed this in the discussion, if so my apologies.

My question is, if these calibers aren't "SHTF" requirements nor are they effective barter material why are you trying to stockpile 1000+ rounds of loaded ammunition? Seems to me you would do just as well to buy 200 rounds of brass and enough bullets, powder, primers etc. to load the other 800. You can have 200 rounds loaded in your cache and the ability to make the other 800 as needed. You will need to keep the press, but this seems a lot more cost effective to me than what you are describing.

Not familiar with loading the rounds you have listed, but would think it would be reasonable to expect at least 5 reloads out of your brass, except perhaps the 375 H&H - might get less from this, but I really don't know. Even if you assume only 3 reloads per case, 350 rounds of brass, bullets, powder and primer will still be worlds cheaper than 1000's of rounds of loaded ammunition. Additionally you will still have the press, which I believe will provide you a lot more options in both current day and post apocalypse scenarios.

JMO,

David


Edit - darn it Lost Sheep beat me on the keyboard....


David

I don't post about SHTF or Apocalypse scenarios on THR. But I am saving/stockpiling/preparing for very hard times such as total economic collapse or severe weather damage.

You make some very good points which I've seen a couple of times now and, I must admit, they are perfectly logical. Yes, I could decrease the number of loaded rounds to 200 per caliber and keep the reloading gear instead of selling it. That said, I'd hold onto the 1000+ rounds each of the more common calibers for investment and/or barter.

 

[Seedtick]

Trust me, once you get the reloading equipment and learn the hobby, you ain't gonna want to sell it.

Yep, I agree. Just wait and see reloading is fun.

I actually enjoy re loading more than un loading.

YMMV

Seedtick

 

[brickeyee]

For me, this would be .500 S&W Mag, .458 SOCOM, and .375 H&H Mag. That's about it. I don't intend to shoot very much at all in the next few years. In fact, I may only load 1000 rounds each... ever.

Planning on fighting a war all by yourself?

 

[Mike1234567]

Planning on fighting a war all by yourself?

LOL!! Nope... I just think it's a good investment. As I previously stated, I'm stockpiling food (canned & freeze dried), having a well drilled, an enclosed garden built, etc. One day, I hope to also have a full set of photovoltaics installed. Just trying to be as independent as is practicable. If you're asking why the big bore firearms then it's because I want to cover all bases. If I move where there are big brown bears or if the feral hogs here grow to 400 pounds I want all the stopping power I can get.

At any rate, I'm now considering 200 rounds each and keeping the reloading gear.

 

[GCBurner]

Empty unprimed new brass for .577-450 Martini-Henry goes for around $4-$9 apiece, so I've only picked up a stockpile of around 40 rounds for my rifles. I just shoot them recreationally, though, since the chances of having to stand off a Zulu attack here in Florida are pretty low. Old guns and ammunition for them comes out of the "Fun" budget, not the "Necessities" budget, so I don't buy or shoot more than I can afford, and as long as I can afford it, I shoot what I like.

 

[BoilerUP]

Can't say a niche caliber is gonna be real great for "severe economic collapse".

 

[Mike1234567]

Can't say a niche caliber is gonna be real great for "severe economic collapse".

I hear (read) you. Most of my cache is common stuff for use/sale/barter later. Of the three I mentioned for reloading the .458 SOCOM is the only one for "bad times" and would be used only for quiet hunting.

 

[GCBurner]

Can't say a niche caliber is gonna be real great for "severe economic collapse".

That's why I call it "Entertainment", in the same class as books, CDs, games, and sporting equipment, rather than "Necessities", like food, clothing, fuel, tools, and spare parts.

 

[Lost Sheep]

LOL!! Nope... I just think it's a good investment. As I previously stated, I'm stockpiling food (canned & freeze dried), having a well drilled, an enclosed garden built, etc. One day, I hope to also have a full set of photovoltaics installed. Just trying to be as independent as is practicable. If you're asking why the big bore firearms then it's because I want to cover all bases. If I move where there are big brown bears or if the feral hogs here grow to 400 pounds I want all the stopping power I can get.

At any rate, I'm now considering 200 rounds each and keeping the reloading gear.

Nearly 40 years ago I read an article addressing how to prepare for a post-disaster life. The main point was that to try to be completely independent was a fool's errand. Humankind is societal by nature. No one person or nuclear family can survive long independently. And the most practical way to survive is to make your pre-disaster lifestyle as much like your post-disaster life as possible (at least, that's what I came away from the article with).

It said (as an example) that in the event of a major disruption in food delivery systems, city-dwellers would head out to rural areas to buy food (or to move). Those who already live in small towns and farm country would be at an advantage, since they already are there and have personal contacts and networks of people they know and depend on (more to the point, are INTERDEPENDENT with).

The article went on to suggest learning skills that would be useful. Veterinary medicine, first aid skills, small engine repair, canning, etc. If you have a rural home with a decent half acre of vegetable garden and a few fowl, you could be in a far better trading situation than having 3-4 thousand rounds of negotiable ammunition. Being on good terms with most of your neighbors is worth more than gold.

I discern from your remarks that you agree with that assessment. (Your well, photocells, etc). Examine everything in that light. I hope we have helped in that regard with respect to your selection of chamberings and reloading plans. As an aside, how well set up is your gunsmithing toolbox and stock of spare parts?

Canazes9, I appreciate your comment more than you know. Usually (because of the length of my posts) I am the one late to the post.

Lost Sheep

P.S. If you are considering the 458 SOCOM in semi-auto, may I suggest a 45-70 Marlin lever action rebarreled to 1:14 would be less finicky in its response to varying power levels and use of lead bullets than a gas-operated gun.

 

[Mike1234567]

Lost Sheep,

Yes, you folks have helped quite a bit.

You're correct, I'm doing everything I can to become independent as soon as possible. No matter what happens I still want my independence from corporations (food, water, fuel, electricity, etc.) so no matter what happens the impact on me should be minimal. I'm just sick of being controlled and dependent.

I'm trying to convince my neighbors to do the same, not with direct "advice" which people usually hate, but by example and just telling them why I'm doing this. This round-about method seems to be working to a degree. Only time will tell if anyone takes the initiative. The more who do adapt an independent lifestyle the greater we are in numbers and strength.

Cached ammo is just one piece of the puzzle. I'll probably decrease the amounts to 300-500 rounds in calibers of firearms I don't have and 500-1000 in the calibers of firearms I do have and 200 rounds in those I reload for.

A Marlin .45-70 re-barreled would work very well. I'll try to find a source for that.

 

[mahansm]

I can only speak to the .500 S&W Magnum. I purchased 250 rounds of new brass from Starline, a few hundred 300 grain Hornady (XTP) bullets, a brick of large rifle primers, and am using my stock of 2400/296/Lil Gun/Trail Boss powders. I also bought 500 of the 400 grain from Missouri Bullet Works and about 150 350 grain Berry's plated. I also have 60 round of fired Starline brass with the early pistol depth primer pockets, but a reamer takes care of that.

I keep about 50-100 loaded with the XTP bullets at near max loads using the Hornady data and Lil Gun, and about another 60 loaded with the lead and around 11-12 grains of Trail Boss for the ladies to shoot.

I don't burn through all that many round from the big revolver at the range in any one session, as there's only so much fun I can stand at a time. 2 liter pop bottle full of water with the cap on tight is fun when hit with one of the Hornady bullets at around 1900 fps. .45acp/230 gr Ball not so much, though.

I've got more than I care to shoot in any one session and it doesn't take all that long to put them back together on my Dillon.

 

[GCBurner]

Once you get your brass, then you can start thinking about the cost of lead, and the economics of gearing up to cast your own bullets.
But that's a topic for another thread.

 

[Mike1234567]

Actually, casting is on-topic here.

 

[denton]

Your tastes in cartridge recipes will change as you get more experience reloading. It's kind of discouraging to find a better recipe after you've loaded a few hundred rounds.

I try to keep basic necessities on hand to cope with the kinds of emergencies we often get here: Power outages, winter blizzards, etc. But my stock of ammo is a few hundred rounds for handguns and a few dozen rounds for rifles, with the exception of the 223. However, I do have an embarrassingly large stock of powder, primer, and bullets. Since most brass can be used at least 10 times, I don't need a huge stock of brass.

If you're going to try to use 500 S&W ammo as barter stock, you'll have to find another 500 S&W owner in need. That's not going to be easy. Good barter stock is stuff that a lot of people want: 7.62x39, 223, 308, 30-06, 9mm, 38 Spl.

 

[GCBurner]

Actually, casting is on-topic here.

Casting your own bullets, or boolits, is a subset of reloading that's practically a separate hobby all on its own. It ranges from the primitive Dan'l Boone type casting lead balls over a campfire using an iron pot and a dipper, to people making sophisticated alloys with temperature controlled production casting equipment. Also swaging projectiles from lead alloy wire, sizing, lubricating, and adding gas checks or paper patches.

 

[Mike1234567]

denton: The .500 S&W, .458 SOCOM and .375 H&H Mag aren't for barter (probably). I've been stockpiling many of the most popular calibers for that.

 

[Mike1234567]

Casting your own bullets, or boolits, is a subset of reloading that's practically a separate hobby all on its own. It ranges from the primitive Dan'l Boone type casting lead balls over a campfire using an iron pot and a dipper, to people making sophisticated alloys with temperature controlled production casting equipment. Also swaging projectiles from lead alloy wire, sizing, lubricating, and adding gas checks or paper patches.

I don't want to complicate things too much so I'll need to KISS. My feeble brain ain't what it used to be and it ain't getting any better.

 

[FROGO207]

Having a small finished ammo supply and enough components ahead to reload for the foreseeable future would be the smartest move IMHO. I try to keep what I presently shoot within 6 months on hand assembled. The rest is what I would need for 3 years of non availability. And lead casting is in the mix for sure. All my pet loads are on paper cause that will always work in a power shortage. The ammo supply is only a part of the big picture. I do however dislike these pesky shortages we seem to have on occasion and plan for these.

 

[zxcvbob]

Starline Brass has .458 SOCOM brass for $340 for 500, and .500 S&W for $242/500 (but that one is backordered). That ought to get you started.

 

[scythefwd]

Yep, I agree. Just wait and see reloading is fun.

I actually enjoy re loading more than un loading.

YMMV

Seedtick

Seedtick - time for another lead test.... may have a buildup in the fun parts of the brain

 

[cacoltguy]

Ammo for Barter? Someone has watched too many Mad-Max movies. If you want economic assurance during times of crisis, buy lots of gold. You can always use your profits to figure out a way of making primers and casings that reloaders will need since you must be assuming those components will never dry up lol. Anyone can reload their own ammo and if for some reason they can't, I doubt there would be too many people looking to barter for 458 SOCOM and 375 H&H reloads that were made buy some guy who learned yesterday.

 

[RandyP]

Two men enter - one man leaves. Break a deal? Face the Wheel.

I'm sorry, Survivalists can be flat out hilarious sometimes. And now I must go down into my bunker, close the lead lined door, eat some jerky and go sleep on my cot.

lol