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Reloading Myths Revisited

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by mc223, May 1, 2007.

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  1. mc223

    mc223 Member

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    Tell us some of the best "Myths" you have heard.

    Like: short barrels need fast powder. Or Fed 205Ms are "Magnum" primers. Or current production Federal brass is "Softer" than Lake City. Or Redding dies are better because they cost more. Or RCBS means Rock Chucker Ballistic Systems.

    Have Fun with it.
     
  2. steve4102

    steve4102 Member

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    Published load data are "Recipes" and it is dangerous to switch components.
     
  3. BigG

    BigG Member

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    I guess I would like to know is how these are myths and how they were debunked, so I understand what a "myth of reloading" is. Thanks!
     
  4. P0832177

    P0832177 member

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    The Federal brass is softer then LC brass. The Federal brass is thinner in the area of the web, BTDT!
     
  5. USSR

    USSR Member

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    Well, mc223, you've a fine group of truths, partial truths, and out and out fallacy there. In order: 1. short barrels need fast powder. Not a question of need, since you can use slow burning powder in a short barrel, and enjoy the huge fireball coming out of the muzzle. 2. Fed 205Ms are "Magnum" primers. Federal uses "M" to designate Match primers, not Magnum primers.
    3. Or current production Federal brass is "Softer" than Lake City. Current production Federal brass IS softer than Lake City brass. Ask anyone who has reloaded both, how many reloadings they get out of Federal brass before the primer pocket expands and will no longer hold a primer. 4. Or Redding dies are better because they cost more. Kind of like saying a Mercedes Benz is better because they cost more. No, Redding dies are better because more work goes into making them better. Since production costs are higher - they sell for more. 5. Or RCBS means Rock Chucker Ballistic Systems. Hmmm, I alway thought it meant Reloading Cases Brings Savings.:D

    Don
     
  6. BigG

    BigG Member

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    Rock Chucker Bullet Swage = RCBS
     
  7. eliphalet

    eliphalet Member

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    I reload for shotgun but,
    rifle/pistol, is/sounds, to ,scary/complected/dangerous,for me.
    I've personally heard that one several times.
     
  8. RustyFN

    RustyFN Member

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    Lee is the Walmart of reloading, you get what you pay for.:D
    Rusty
     
  9. snuffy

    snuffy Member

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    Close--real close, but loose the er on chuck. The rock chuck is similar to a wood chuck that lives in californicate. Fred Hunington, the originator of RCBS, needed to make bullets for shooting those pests. He designed the first press, named it for it's intended prupose. Some,(well most), say he's the father of home reloading.

    Federal brass, at least the .223's are not "softer", their head/web area is lighter in the crucial primer pocket area. One reload with normal pressure loads is enough to loosen the primer pocket, to make it not hold a primer securely. I just won't load the stuff, one hot load is enough to have the shell lose the primer into the reciever of an AR-15, jamming it.
     
  10. mc223

    mc223 Member

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    I seem to have seen this somewhere before.
     
  11. SamTuckerMTNMAN

    SamTuckerMTNMAN Member

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    thats some funny stuff there.

    I've made posts that were supposed to be friendly or funny and people just tear them to shreds and end up arguing before its all over, about something totally different.

    Why is changing components of a recipe a myth. I am a new reloader and would love to 'change' from federal to win or rem brass without reworking loads, but I DO because I've been advised by many to do so.

    ST
     
  12. Bronson7

    Bronson7 Member

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    MC, I'm not convinced the first item on your list is a myth although slower powders can be used in short barrels. Aside from muzzle flash (already mentioned), the slower powders continue to burn as the bullet leaves the muzzle. My understanding is this can upset bullet trajectory. That makes sense to me, HOWEVER, many folks use the slower powders with success. Personally, I'm a believer in faster powders for shorter barrels. Actually, I prefer fast powders AND lighter bullets for short barrels. Works for me.
    Bronson7
     
  13. cheygriz

    cheygriz Member

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    My favorite myths::what:

    NEVER exceed the maximum charge in a reloading manual.

    Some spray-on case lubes do not need to be removed.

    Lead bullets will ruin your bore.

    High quality equipment isn't worth the money.

    Primers should be seated to uniform depth, not to the bottom of the pocket.

    Absolute maximum loads are not as accurate as lower powered loads.

    Powder charges should be individually weighed.

    Primer pockets should be cleaned brfore loading.

    A lot of these are true Much of the time, but far too many people take them as axioms.:banghead:
     
  14. Eagle103

    Eagle103 Member

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    Reloading will save you money.
     
  15. ranger335v

    ranger335v Member

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    Basically, we need to "develop" our own loads, no book recipe can be trusted to be safe in our weapons. No matter what the book says, we should (MUST, if we are wise!) approach the book max loads with caution and understanding. Therefore, IF we change ANY COMPONENT in a known safe load we should repeat the same work-up process. Anyone who takes books loads, even with "the same components", as gospel fact has to believe in myths.

    Using faster powders in shorter barrels will reduce muzzle blast and flash. It will also reduce muzzle velocity. Best velocity comes from the best powder, and weight of the charge, no matter the barrel length or muzzle blast. That's a fact, not a myth.

    "My favorite brand of equipment is the best, your's is junk" is a popular myth. If raising prices makes for better equipment maybe Lee just needs to raise prices enough to allow some folks to feel more comfortable using their good products!

    Actually, ALL of our reloading tool makers produce very good tools. Some have a higher comfort level with paying more, or perhaps less, iif that makes any difference. OK, Forster and Redding, do have unique and excellant designs for both their seaters AND sizers and Lee has the excellant collet neck sizers and bullet crimpers. Otherwise, ALL of the rest of our die makers designs and quality contol seem to be pretty much the same, including the very expensive RCBS Competion dies. So, for a given basic design, we can have a better exterior finish on expensive dies but the interior is what does the job.

    And, I doubt that any factory rifle can tell a difference between ammo properly made with any brand of dies or press, no matter how polished it is or what the retail tag reads. That explains why I use Forster's BR seaters for my more accurate rifles instead of the more expensive Redding Competition seaters - there's not a bit of difference in the average ammo either brand produces but the Reddings cost more and are purtier to look at. For most of my rifles, I just use what ever brand of die I have on hand. And with dies from a dozen or so makers on my bench, I like them all.

    ------------------------------
    NOW, for some popular myths in my area:

    "A fired bullet always rises after it leaves the barrel"

    "It takes longer for a bullet fired level to the earth to strike the ground than one that was dropped from the muzzle at the moment of firing because it's flying so far."

    "Any fired bullet continues to gain speed for some distance after it leaves the muzzle."

    "A fired bullet gets lift from it's spin, helping it go futher."

    "Anyone hit with a .45 ACP bullet will get knocked off his feet, even if he's only hit in the hand."

    "It's unsafe to add Brasso to tumbler media because Brasso has ammonia and that weakens brass." (OK, there IS a small kernal of truth in here. Brasso does have a small amount of ammonia and that does weaken brass. But ammonia is a liquid that evaporates readily. Thus, if Basso is well mixed with tumbling media AND the ammonia is allowed plenty of time to evaporate, a full day perhaps, only the harmless metal polish will remain. So, Basso is totally safe in our tumbling media IF it's used properly!)

    "Never reload a rifle case more than five times 'cause it's ready to have a head separation"

    "A Redding "S" sizing die makes the straightest ammo you can reload."

    "Hollow point and round nosed bullets always expand faster than pointed bullets"

    "Hollow point bullets always give better accuracy than pointy ones."

    "Slow moving bullets are deflected less when striking leaves and twigs, etc."

    "A digtial reloading scale is more accurate than the old beam types." (At best they may be equal, initially, but digitals are less dependable than the more simple beam scales.)

    "Rotary tumblers will get brass cleaner than vibators."

    "No .243 bullet can be depended on to kill deer, but almost any .260 load will drop them."

    "If you know what you're doing and do it carefully, you can blend two or three powers together to get better velocity." (This one is DAMNED FOOLISH and DANGEROUS!)

    "Gun powder is an explosive too risky for people to own or store privately."

    "You get best accuracy with a bullet seated to just touch the rifling."

    "Best rifle accuracy comes from neck sizing, not from full length sizing."

    "The factorys know what the best Over-All-Length for each cartridge is, you need to copy them."

    "The ammo factories have special powders that give best results in a .296 Super-Whatsit, etc, but they won't sell it to sports retailers."

    "Use a 150 gr. bullet for best accuracy in a .308 but the .30-06 needs 168 gr. bullets for best accuracy and in .300 mags the 180 gr. bullets will shoot best."

    "Black powder rifles "kick" harder than those with smokeless cartridges."

    "A cartrige dropped into a fire can go off and kill someone several yards away."

    "A fired bullet will travel (put some distance here) yards before it begins to drop."

    "A .300 Winny has more knock-down power at 500 yards than a .30-30 has at the muzzle."

    "A deer can run a mile after being hit in the heart with a .30-30 but a 7mm Rem. mag will stop them in their tracks, every time."

    "I once killed deer a mile away with one shot from my iron-sighted Marlin 336 in .32 Win. Special, didn't have to hold over a bit either. A Marlin is a harder shooter than a Winchester 94 and Marlins kick less too." (A shortened but accurately represented overheard story. I love Marlins myself but... And it was sincerly told with a straight face, I'm convinced the fellow belived it!)

    --------------------------

    Not all of these are reloading myths, per se, but all are gun and ammo related. I've heard each of these myths over the years from senseable people professing to know what they are talking about. Many were heard in sporting goods stores, told by the resident "gun/reloading expert" sales clerk spouting foolishness to awed newbees. I recently overheard the last three stories being told in a store by men who said had they witnessed or experienced it themselves!

    All these are WRONG but it's difficult to impossible to change any minds! Mostly, I don't even try.

    Most myths are harmlessly silly or ignorant but the one about "blending powders" is so dumb I almost didn't post it. I did only so I can say, "Be warned, BLENDING POWDERS IS A VERY BAD MYTH!"
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2007
  16. RustyFN

    RustyFN Member

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    I thought you would enjoy that.:D
    Rusty
     
  17. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    MYTH: that powder is still BURNING when the bullet leaves the muzzle

    It's been pretty solidly proven that ALL of the powder that is going to burn will do so in the first few inches of barrel


    Or on a related note, the MYTH that powder burning is what accelerates the bullet down the barrel.

    the fact is that the violently expanding gases from the combustion of the powder charge will continue to accelerate the bullet even after combustion is over.

    FIRE doesn't directly make bullets go down the barrel but rather super high pressure gases do
     
  18. fatelk

    fatelk Member

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    That's the best one yet! We all know it's a myth, but I might happen to mention it to my wife when I'm buying more components (somehow I think even she knows it's not true).
    I knew an old man that had a scar the size of a 30-30 base on his forehead. Someone threw a live round in a campfire when he was a kid. He said it nearly killed him.
     
  19. Hazzard

    Hazzard Member

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    I'd have to agree.

    I've found lead bullets are easier on the bore and are no worse to foul the bore than jacketed bullets with the right load..

    I have 2 rifles that shoot much better with max loads.

    And my contribution is that "maximum published loads should never be exceeded". Although you should always work up to max loads, I've found that many max published loads are conservative. YMMV.
     
  20. ADKWOODSMAN

    ADKWOODSMAN Member

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    This one's true. Federal brass is VERY expensive!
     
  21. scrat

    scrat Member

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    fill up the case with powder then press in the bullet for a good load that will shoot far.


    :what: :what:
     
  22. steve4102

    steve4102 Member

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    Quote from USSR
    You lost me here. Why do you say the 205M is a Magnum Match primer? I thought the 205 and 205M were both standard and standard (Match) small rifle.
     
  23. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    well, depends on the curvature of the Earth

    are you saying it's impossible or just dangerous? if you think it's impossible, please explain why.
     
  24. Clark

    Clark Member

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  25. Bad Flynch

    Bad Flynch Member

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    Well, the real problem here is that knowledge changes with time. Some of these things were true in the past, but are no longer true. One has only to read Phil Sharpe's old loading book from the 1930s, (updated in the 40s and 50s) to see that things do really change and that the common wisdom of one era is no longer true.

    A case in point is illustrated best by the old primer myth. When I was a young man, it was common "knowledge" that one should use the same brand of primers as cases: interchanging them just didn't work right. However, if you look in Sharpe's book, you will see that at one time, the primer pocket shapes were not standardized and the primers were different shapes to compensate for that. Different maker's primers really did need to be used in the right brand of cases. Now, that is bunk, because everybody standardized along about WWII, or so.

    I have had good lots of brass and bad lots of brass--some were soft and some had excessively tight primer pockets. My Federal .223 cases are soft in the head, but they work fine.

    Best to get good information. As an example, one really can raise the pressure of a load over the limit just by changing brands of the same weight bullet. The NRA tested that one out many years ago and the modern QuickLoad program still bears this one out.

    Improved knowledge can really help an art. For example, it was commonly thought that all lead bullets had to be the same size as the grooves in the barrel to shoot well and not lead. Now we know that it is the throat diameter that really counts when it comes to preventing the leading due to size discrepancies (all other things being equal).

    Keep up with your art!
     
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