Reloads vs. Factory Ammo

[taliv]

i'm going to have to disagree with the 'factory ammo is as good as handloads'.

your friend is very lucky if he has several rifles that will shoot factory ammo sub-MOA. or may be he has a different definition of 'group' or 'MOA'.

of all the rifles I've ever owned, none would consistently shoot MOA with factory ammo. and by 'factory' i mean stuff you buy at walmart, not Federal GM Match or Hornady TAP.


btw, run some factory ammo through a concentricity gauge sometime and compare it to quality handloads. in my experience, it's an ENORMOUS difference

 

[JNewell]

Since Forever the gunners' "conventional Wisdom" has been that the reloader can produce ammo that leaves the "factory stuff" in the dirt.

When I started reloading in 1972 or 1973 (forever ago?) that was clearly true.

IMO and IME, that is not true now. On the contrary, I am hard pressed to reload ammo that shoots as well as Federal GCM or Black Hills match. But even "normal" factory ammo can be very hard to beat today.

Further, for high volume range practice, I can't really equal the economics of what's available in common cartridges like 9x19, .45 ACP, etc., especially if you put any kind of dollar value on my time - that did not used to be true.

These days, I reload only when I really can't get what I want locally or can't get it on an economically reasonable basis. Two that come to mind that I still actively load for: .30-40 Krag and .22 Hornet.

 

[Shawnee]

Hi JNewell...

Watch MidwayUSA. They often have some flavor of Hornet on sale. I lucked out and got some Honady V-max ammo for $12/box. I think they have some Remington still on sale now.

 

[plinky]

I noticed .300 Wby ammo at Walmart the other day. $49 something for 20 rounds. And this was the economical Remington brand. For some cartridges, usually magnums and obscure loadings, there is no way I could shoot factory ammo. I just couldn't pull the trigger round after round on ammo that expensive. Maybe once or twice if it was something special, but routinely, no. The guilt would kill me.

 

[HM2PAC]

Shawnee wrote:

.but if someone asked me the same question indicating that they also love to reload, I would suggest they look at the 7x57 Mauser because factory stuff for it is often underloaded and reloading can enable users of that cartridge to take good advantage of all the excellent 7mm bullets available. They would have a great hunting rifle and also a whale of a lot of fun playing with the load development.

To me, it's Major Dumb to recommend a cartridge like the 7x57 to someone who doesn't want to get into reloading even though those are all good cartridges.

I don't know. The new 7x57 loads are not loaded anywhere near what modern chambers can allow. However, a friend of mine uses factory ammo in his 7x57 to take deer up here all the time. The deer never know that they were killed by an undercharged round.

I did load ammo for him for a moose hunt though, it went very well. Aside from reloading, he would never have been able to find 175 gn ammo for the 7x57. The big cow went 25 yds and laid down.

 

[Floppy_D]

From my best estimates, reloading is handy if you want specifics out of your ammo, or you cast your bullets, or you like it. I still swear I can shoot my 44mag for less than premium 22 ammo, but that's cause my time is more plentiful than my allowance. If it were dollar for dollar even, I get more enjoyment out of reloading because I spend more time with each round than the non-loader does. I also do my own auto work, weave my own hammocks, tend my own garden, and bake my own bread. It may not save a lot, but I like doing my own work. It's more fulfilling.

 

[cliffy]

Handloading vs Factory loads

Factory loads will get anyone into the ballpark, while handloads create a new ballgame. Every ten degrees of Ambient Temperature rise creates a new extremely accuracy ballgame. What Temperature were your factory loads designed for for best usage? Which rifle, bolt, auto, single-shot were your loads designed for? Which bullet and velocity? Too many variables enter the factory-load scenario. Factories error on the light-side, rather than on the heavy-side of performance, and who can blame them? Handloaders who study and use a chronograph have much going in their favor, performancewise. I have specific loads dedicated to 50-60-70-80-90-100 degree hunting conditions. Each is different: powder/ powderchargewise. Temperature-Insensitive Powder doesn't exactly exist. Love Hodgdon Powers due to resistance to extremes in temperature change, yet no powder can cover it all, unless grain charge differences are initiated. Owning and using a chronograph is an irreplaceable necessity. cliffy

 

[Shawnee]

Hi HM2...

We are in agreement.

You'll notice I wrote: "if someone said to me: "I want to get a rifle in 7mm caliber for deer and maybe Elk" ...

As you say - much of the factory 7x57 ammo is perfectly fine for deer even though it is loaded below the capability of modern rifles. I would suggest the 7x57 for the reloader because reloading could correct the underloading situation when it came time to go for Elk - just like you did for your friend when he went after Moose.

 

[ar10]

The % of hunters/shooters who depend on factory ammo is HUGE.

And that's the main reason I reload.

I don't know or care too much about MOA's or POI's or Chronographs. As long as I hit what I'm aiming at I'm happy. (It's the ones that can't that bothers me most.)

As far as reloading, its convenient because I work at a range getting all the brass I'll ever need. Secondary is I have more time than money, and the last time I checked bullets doubled and tripled. However I do believe reloads are better, (this goes back to more time than mone) are much better to shoot than factory loads because I measured and weighed the. Those Chinese, or whoever's making bullets now days is doing a pretty poor job of it, IMO.

 

[matrem]

Hunting with your "personal" ammo is kind of like eating the tomatoes out of "your" garden..It just tastes better..

 

[YodaVader]

Not everyone that owns a rifle uses it for hunting , most of the shooters I know or see at the range who are primarily target shooters reload their own ammo. It is extremely gratifying for me to shoot my all time best targets using ammo I loaded myself. Kind of like a guy at the local dragstrip who runs the best time of the night with an engine they built themselves.

Agreed , my hunting friends that fire less rounds all year than I do in a single range session usually rely on factory ammo for the most part. As long as the factory ammo allows them to bag a deer each season they are more than satisfied , which makes sense.

For shooting on a regular basis I sure could not afford to fire factory ammo loaded with match bullets , like the Federal Gold Medal .223 listed at $29.99 for 20 rounds in one of my recent Midway fliers. A buck fifty per shot! That is loaded with Sierra 69 grain MatchKings. I can load .223 with the same MatchKings for considerably less than $29.99 per 20.

Plus I have total control of the bullet seating depth , powder type , charge weight , primer type and I can simply neck size with the collet die which has provided me with great accuracy. My Berger bullet reloads have returned my most consistent accuracy - would not even want to think what it would cost if it were available factory loaded.

Every time a reloading thread comes up there is always this argument about the time you spend doing it and not getting paid for it? So , that to me would like your wife spending an hour in the kitchen making a nice home cooked meal - does she get paid for her time? Would you say - "Why not just hit the DogDonalds drive through and save some of your valuable time?" Nonsense.

 

[Michael_C]

reloading

I shoot a variety of calibres. 8 revolver rounds for CAS (cowboy competition)...plus .223, 22-250, 243, .270, 38-55, 30-06, 300win mag 7mm rem mag (my fav deer rifle), (mine and others 'buffalo rifles now) 45-60, 45-70, 45-75, 45-90, 45-110, 50-90. (I prob missed a couple) Some of these are for other CAS shooters and for other hunter 'friends'. You just can not find some of these rounds readily available,,nor,,can you find the range of specific loads you might wish.

I think the two of the greatest advantages to reloading are these..beyond the tremendous savings,,,is,,,,the range of loads you can create and you can tailor a particular load to a particular rifle.

Granted again,,some rifles are just inherently accurate with about any thing you feed them. Some are not.

Reloading to me is fun. I despise TV, like the computer 'some',,but LOVE sitting at the reloading table. I love reloading as much as shooting I believe.


I will not bash factory ammo. If I only deer hunted or shot a few round casually, I might have stayed with factory. Factory ammo does have its place. Not everyone can afford,,,or even wish,,,to get deep into reloading. I 'HAVE' to,,,and I 'WISH' to. It just doesn't make me right or the other guy wrong,,nor make the other guy right and me wrong. We all have our needs, desires, etc.

At the end of the day though,,it just thrills the stuffing out of me to take deer or hit a 600 yard silhouette with ammo that 'I' have reloaded.

I will say this..there are some good factory rounds out nowadays,,with the advent of some of the better bullets. Better than 'back in the day' one might say.

But,,all in all,,, I do not think factory ammo's (non-premium anyways) are quite as accurate as precision reload rounds.

Michael

 

[Shawnee]

LOLOLOLOL


I know the feeling, Lads. I started reloading for centerfire rifles when I was 14 and the first time I plastered a woodchuck with ammo I had made myself I thought I was surely going to be the next Jack O'Conner. The first time I shot a deer with my homebrew ammo I knew I was the next Jack O'Conner. Unfortunately, Jim Carmichael beat me to it.

 

[qajaq59]

While it is true that factory ammo has improved greatly since the 60's, when I started to reload, it is still not up to par with what I can do by hand loading with the right components and a little patience. And factory ammo certainly doesn't give me the satisfaction that I get when I use my own loads. But it is dealer's choice, and if someone is happy with factory loads by all means use them. Either one will drop a deer if you can shoot worth a snit. The kill zone on a deer isn't exactly a tiny target.

 

[Shawnee]

Just thought of something else Cool about reloading ammo. I've caught fish on flys I tied using feathers from quail, pheasants, prairie chickens, ducks, turkeys and hair from deer and squirrels I shot with homebrew shells.
Come to think of it, I've also used some shed hair from my Lab for the "legs" on homemade panfish "spiders". LOLOLOL!

 

[win71]

I couldn't do that

I have specific loads dedicated to 50-60-70-80-90-100 degree hunting conditions.

So how does this work exactly. Say you get to your stand at sun-up and it's 40 degrees. You stay till noon and it's 70 degrees.

I don't think I've ever heard of a theory like this. I understand with all the same loads the POI will change slightly with high temperature changes but it changes slightly with any change from the standard where it was loaded.
Personally, I've worked up loads in 270 and 7m/m magnum for elk hunts. The loading was done in the central valley at 700' elevation, 80 degrees, no wind, and approximately 20%humidity. We hunted at 7,000', between 0 and 40 degrees, wind and up to 80% humidity.
I can just barely carry all the stuff I really need on my hunts. I'd have to hire a couple guys to cover all the bases with thermometers, wind direction and speed indicators, altimeters, Psychrometer (Hygrometer) and some kind of hand held device with balistics program to figure everything out.

 

[elmerfudd]

You're right that you can usually take a modern hunting rifle and feed it good factory ammo and get great results. Handloading however gives you more options. Say that you have an antique rifle that fires an obsolete cartridge. Well, in that case, if you wish to fire it, you'd better get a press and learn how to handload. Maybe you've got an old military rifle with very limited options when it comes to ammo or even one chambered for a popular round like the 8mm Mauser. In the 8mm, unless you want anemic loads you have to handload. Some guns require handloads to bring out their best accuracy. I have a Saiga308 that shoots under 2 MOA with handloads but doesn't do as well with factory ammo. Then you also have the option of neck sizing cartridges for a cartridge that perfectly fits the chamber of the rifle in question as well as the option of seating the bullet closer to the lands of your particular rifle.

Factory ammo is great, but if you really like to shoot, (especially if you like to shoot old guns), then handloading gives you far more options.

 

[MCMXI]

I've always thought that benchrest shooters set the standard for accuracy. I'd be curious to know how many of them shoot factory ammunition ... my guess would be less than 1% and most of those would be new to the sport.


"Tom Sarver, proprietor of Thunder Valley Range, a Medina, Ohio, native, broke two International Benchrest (IBS) 1,000-yard records last July in Plainfield, Ohio. Using his "light gun class rifle" (17 pounds), Sarver scored a perfect 50 with 5X. The record breaking 5-shot group measured 1.403" from the center to center. His perfect score of 50 was located in the exact center of a 42"x42" target with a 2" diameter X ring. Sarver broke the record at the IBS association sanctioned match at Thunder Valley Range Saturday, 7/7/07 and captured the two records with a custom designed wildcat cartridge. He has coined his design the ".300 Hulk," which is patterned after the .338 Lapua Magnum case modified to .30 caliber."

 

[Shawnee]

Hi 1858...

Not sure what you mean "set the standard for accuracy".

I've alway thought there aren't too many deer hunters who feel they need "bench rest accuracy" for shooting deer.

Or were you saying that bench rest shooters just think they set the standard for everyone else ? If they do, I know a whole lot of "everyone else's" who would disagree with them.

 

[MCMXI]

I have a good friend that hunts every year in Eastern Washington and he doesn't reload. We were talking about reloading a few months ago and he sent me a target that he shot with his Remington 7mm Mag using factory loads.

"The last 100 yd. group I shot w/my 7mm Mag and factory loads is attached, 1/4" grid; (no the one shot in the upper right is NOT a flyer!). I figured that was good enough, so quit (it could only get worse). And, indeed, it was good enough (at least at 20 yds or so)."

His comment about "good enough for 20 yards" was a reference to the last deer he shot that was about 20 yards away! Anyway, he's an experienced hunter, and a competent shot and he manages to shoot about 1" groups at 100 yards with factory ammunition which is more than good enough for deer hunting. Could he get those groups under 1/2" with reloading .... SURE!! Does he need to get those groups under 1/2" ... NO!!

 

[MCMXI]

Not sure what you mean "set the standard for accuracy".

Shawnee, benchrest shooters give us mere mortals some idea of the potential of our equipment. The fact that someone can put 5 holes in a piece of paper 1000 yards away that fit within a 1.4" diameter circle is nothing short of amazing. Many people wouldn't believe that is possible but obviously it is. If your objective is the best accuracy possible from a particular firearm (which is what benchrest shooters are after), then you need to reload. I agree with you 100% that responsible hunting doesn't require the kind of accuracy needed to set world records in benchrest. So now I'm not sure what my point is ...

 

[Shawnee]

Nothing wrong with wanting to wring the last fraction of an inch of accuracy out of a rifle - whether its' needed or not - that's a fun sport in and of itself. And as you point out - that's almost guaranteed to call for reloading.

 

[JNewell]

Just to make sure something gets said in plain words here, regardless of what you think about saving money or improving accuracy, one thing is definitely true.

Reloading can be an enjoyable hobby all by itself - you may reload just because you ENJOY it, regardless of whether it is better or cheaper!

 

[ilbob]

Just to make sure something gets said in plain words here, regardless of what you think about saving money or improving accuracy, one thing is definitely true.

Reloading can be an enjoyable hobby all by itself - you may reload just because you ENJOY it, regardless of whether it is better or cheaper!

+1.

Its a hobby in and of itself.

 

[Snapping Twig]

Don't overlook the ammunition bans currently under consideration.

Make your own and you don't need to be restricted to 50 rounds per month as the legislation stands.

I took up reloading when my State required a drivers license and a signature for ammo purchase.

Back door gun control through ammunition bans. California "No Lead" hunting in condor range for instance - total crap, but it is the law.

In my case, I reload for everything I shoot and cast too. My Mini 30 likes my 150g loads, but doesn't like factory 125g and without reloading, I'd have a pretty useless rifle.