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Rem 700 R-5 Milspec .308

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by JDGray, Nov 13, 2009.

  1. JDGray

    JDGray Senior Member

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    I've read mostly good on these rifles, but Benchrest.com thinks differently of them. Those that have loaded for this rifle, what kind of accuracy are you getting? My Savage 10FP, shoots .500" at 100yrds, off a bipod, with my Varget/ 168SMK combo. I would like to improove on that, and read the Milspec will shoot .250", what are some of your real world groups? My other option would be a custom barrel for the Savage:cool:
     
  2. USSR

    USSR Senior Member

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    Getting a sub-.5MOA <$1,000 factory rifle is like drawing an inside straight - possible, but I wouldn't bet on it.

    Don
     
  3. Uncle Mike

    Uncle Mike Senior Member

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    Oh yes, the Russian designed 5R rifling. Conceived by our ruisky friends across the globe and cabbaged onto by some of our firearm manufacturers as the 'ultimate' barrel rifling configuration.

    Nonsense! In another way, if it were so good, cutting edge and oozed magic why don't all the bench guys, the guys that are making little, tinny tiny 5 shot groups as far away as the next zip code, and ALL the specialty sniper groups in the modern world, use it?

    It sells rifles...and IF that particular rifle is being used by the military machine then, oh my, the sniper boys are using it, it HAS to be the best out there...right? Wrong!

    There is nothing wrong or bad about 5R rifling, it is nothing special, other than the hype of the angle of the lands, less fouling, which is why the ruiskys designed it in the first place, not to enhance accuracy.

    A quick call to the various top end barrel manufacturers will reveal the truth about 5R...

    In today's world, if it made a difference that would mean large returns, or in other words, you would sell a butt load of them...so why don't we see more 5R out there....

    It is less forgiving to produce, and has no appreciable advantage!

    Those 700 5R's have been descent, but not outstanding as the price would suggest, not a bad rifle, but....

    Your <.500/100y from your STOCK FACTORY BARREL Savage is not good enough? Then an aftermarket tube is the ticket...call Sharp Shooters Supply, and tell Fred what your up to...he can give some good barrel advice and manufacturers options.
     
  4. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Senior Member

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    I note that Kreiger has struck a deal with Boots Obermeyer to make 5R barrels to his original design. They must have enough customers to make it worth their while. If you want to pay Kreiger $30 extra for the style, go for it.

    I don't think the rifling plan makes a whole lot of difference in a factory rifle.

    I don't know of any product so good that EVERYBODY uses it, there is always competition and comparison going on.
     
  5. Sheepdog1968

    Sheepdog1968 Senior Member

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    From what I've read, most Rem 700's will shoot sub MOA from the factory. I like rifles but I'm not all knowing.
     
  6. johnmcl

    johnmcl Senior Member

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    JD,

    I understand your desire to close that gap up, admirable to say the least. However, let's look at things from an ROI perspective. Let's say that the R5 is capable of 1/4 MOA groups. The investment is rifle plus scope, so somewhere around $1400 to $2,000. Taking the the worst case of $2,000, the business decision is whether a $2,000 investment is worth that quarter inch. To expand it a little, the investment is then at $8,000 per MOA of improvement.

    With that said, R5s are fine production grade rifles. I'm extremely happy with mine. I find it reliable and accurate across a range of reloading parameters. My favorite being 42 grains of IMR 4895 under a 168 SMK. I have shot 1/4 MOA groups. Ok, in truth in advertising there was only such group fired so far. However the point is that at least single data point of an R5 is just fine. The accuracy problems seem all to be contributed by me. :)

    I'd be extremely happy with yours firing half inch groups, too That level of performance is well above what most production rifles can deliver.
     
  7. JDGray

    JDGray Senior Member

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    I've played arround with IMR4895, and 168 SMKs, and the thing didn't like it:mad: I shot my tried and true Varget load, and its was right back in the 5s.:) My skills are probably the limit, when I back up to 200yrds my groups open up to 1.5"- 2.5", but it may be the rifle. Thanks for all the insight so far.

    The rifle I may trade for, will cost me a nice RRA Predator Pursuit!
     
  8. DRYHUMOR

    DRYHUMOR Senior Member

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    I heard of someone pulling a one hole group out of one, with reloads.

    I've had two through the years. I wasn't that impressed with the hype, I've had PSS's that shot better. I didn't reload for it though.
     
  9. USSR

    USSR Senior Member

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    And there it is. I have done this as well, but a one time, sub .5MOA, 3 or 5 shot 100 yard group does not a sub .5MOA rifle make.

    Ah, yes, .5MOA groups at 100 yards don't equate to .5MOA at 200 yards and beyond. At my local range, it was almost 2 years before someone put all 40 shots fired at 200 yards in F Class competition into a 1MOA bullseye, and we have some really fine LR rifles and shooters.

    Don
     
  10. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Staff Member

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    There are a lot of radiused/slanted rifling designs, used by a variety of barrel makers. For example, AI rifles have "R" style rifling from Border, I believe.
     
  11. SpeedAKL

    SpeedAKL Senior Member

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    I wouldn't say its worth spending the money to upgrade over your Savage. To get a significant performance jump, you'll likely have to go the custom route or get a high-end factory rig like the AI or Sako.
     
  12. DRYHUMOR

    DRYHUMOR Senior Member

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    You could have the action squared, and the bolt worked. Little things help.
     
  13. farscott

    farscott Senior Member

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    I like mine, but I bought it for a few reasons:

    1) I am not a good enough rifle shot to justify the purchase of a custom barrel.

    2) I wanted a Remington 700 in .308 Winchester with a 24" stainless barrel and a good synthetic stock.

    3) My local dealer had one at a decent price.
     
  14. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Senior Member

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    Seriously if .5 moa from a stock savage isn't good enough all you need to do is order a SSS recoil lug $40 and send the friendly folks at Shilen about $335

    no need to buy a $1500 rifle that may or may not shoot better than what you have now
     
  15. MGD 45

    MGD 45 New Member

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    If you really want to know what kind if rifle you have......shoot about 10 or 15 different 5-shot groups then average the group size. You'll be surprised to find that your Savage is more like a .75 or 1 MOA rifle. Which should be fine!

    I've shot several groups under .300 with my Rem 700 PSS.....but then sometimes it will open up to .750 & a wee bit higher. I've shot probably 20 different 5-shot groups with it.....& I feel comfortable calling it a .75 MOA rifle......
     
  16. JDGray

    JDGray Senior Member

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    No doubt that if I averaged every group, it would be a 1 moa shooter. Most of the time I'm playing around with different loads, some it dont like at all. The load it likes, will shoot in the 5s everytime:)

    Like this one a few days ago. I wouldnt shoot IMR4985 to save my live, but shot my Varget load right at .500"
    [​IMG]

    43gr Varget 168SMKs
    [​IMG]

    Shot this with a friend wiggeling the pick-nick table. Some were 3 shots, cause he started shooting, called the flier when he sat down durring my shot.
    [​IMG]

    I feel pretty comfortable saying it will shoot in the 5s, with its favorite load;)
     
  17. MGD 45

    MGD 45 New Member

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    You definitely got a shooter there. One of my shooting buddies has a Savage Police Tactical .308 & it's a tack-driver too. Have you tried bumping the load up to 44 grains of Varget? We use the Hornady TAP ammo at work & the Hornady 168 grain ammo is loaded to 44 grains of Varget. I got this load data directly from Hornady through one of their Techs. Now when I reload for my practice ammo, I load it to the same specs.....& it shoots great.
     
  18. JDGray

    JDGray Senior Member

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    I did try 44gr and it was very close to the 43gr load, I may give it another try:)
    [​IMG]

    This was shot last December, in the snow, and this was my first attempt of .308 reloading. I've only been shooting rifles since September 08', before that I was heavy into handguns. I find accuracy reloading for rifles, way more satisfying, and outright addicting:D

    Thanks for that little tid-bit of insider information;)
     
  19. MGD 45

    MGD 45 New Member

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    They actually gave me two different loads.....he told me if I was using Varget to load with 44 grains....and if I was using IMR-4895 to load to 43.5 grains.....I guess it depends on which particular load your rifle likes.

    I started out reloading pistol rounds for volume because I was doing a lot of pistol shooting with my Dept. buddies on the weekend & needed to be able to pump out the volume of pistol rounds cheaper than I could buy.

    Once I started precision rifle shooting.....well, the addiction just took over &.......well......you know what I'm talking about! :D

    This was one of the last groups I've shot with it....
    [​IMG]
     
  20. MGD 45

    MGD 45 New Member

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    This was my best 200 yard group with it....well, except for the brain fart shot up high to the left!!! LOL!

    [​IMG]
     
  21. JDGray

    JDGray Senior Member

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    MGD 45,

    Great shooting! I have some 168gr A-Maxes to try, they shoot as good as the SMKs, just haven't loaded any in volume.

    Best I could muster at 200yrds is 1.725" 5 shot, and a 1.175" 4 shot. I'm gonna spend alot more time out at the 200yrd line from now on.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2009
  22. MGD 45

    MGD 45 New Member

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    I got really pissed with the 3rd shot that landed up high right. I had made a slight press on the trigger and decided to pause for another breath cycle before shooting. So I was basically breathing again with the trigger half depressed, when my shooting partner fired off his rifle to my right.....BAAMM!!

    Of course, I flinched & popped the 3rd shot high right!! Damn!! I laughed at myself but was pissed that I had just blown the 5-shot group. I've loaded both the 168 grain BTHP & the AMAX's. They both shoot the same as far as I can tell.
     
  23. C-grunt

    C-grunt Senior Member

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    Can someone post a picture of one of these milspec rifles. I think I handled one at the store today. It just said Remington 700 on it but it had a heavy long stainless barrel with a precision style stock and adjustable trigger. I was fairly impressed with it for a thousand dollar rifle.

    Having shot a M24 I can attest that they are pretty darn accurate and the milspec is supposed to have the same barrel.
     
  24. dubbleA

    dubbleA Senior Member

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    Using 45.0grs of Varget behind 168 SMk shoots decent in my savage.

    3 five shot groups at 100yds shot back to back.

    [​IMG]

    5 four shot groups fire back to back at 200 yards


    [​IMG]

    3 five shot groups fired back to back at 600yards

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  25. JDGray

    JDGray Senior Member

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    From what I've read, they are the same barrel, but are rejects for the M24. Remington recontures the barrels to a lighter weight, and sells them on the Milspec. This is why they are a limited production rifle.
    http://www.tacshooting.com/image_rifle/remington700m24_00l.jpg

    Great shooting dubbleA! As always;)
     

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