Remington 1863 Carbine

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by rodwha, Feb 21, 2018.

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  1. rodwha

    rodwha Member

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    Who else thinks swapping the little 3.5” barrel for a 16-18” and adding a full length stock, and properly sized chambers would be way too cool? Seems it would make a nice little bunny popper that with short bullets would probably take coyotes nicely as well!
     
  2. Mauser lover

    Mauser lover Member

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  3. rodwha

    rodwha Member

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    Yes. Very much like that but in .31 caliber for small game hunting. Or even the .22 cal NAA pistol would be cool.

    Figured it wouldn’t be too difficult to create a stock that attaches as one of the grip panels (been thinking about that for my ROA). It would come down to a threaded barrel that fit properly and potentially lengthening the loading lever for better leverage and ease.
     
  4. expat_alaska

    expat_alaska Member

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    There are no grip "panels" on Colt style pistols as opposed to the Rem NMA. The grip is one piece of wood.

    With the .31 caliber you are talking about creating something from a Pocket .31 pistol. The pistol grip is so small as to be almost non-existent in my hands. Why would you want a barrel that long? I would think 14" would be the max length. The replica Pocket pistols have no divot on the bottom of the backstrap to attach a shoulder stock of any type like the repro 1851 Navies. I guess it could be machined, but you are looking at some severe bucks for a bunny gun.

    Good luck in your endeavor and keep us apprised as to your progress.

    What does this have to do with a Remington 1863 carbine?
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  5. BullSlinger

    BullSlinger Member

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    I have always wanted a black powder revolving carbine but haven't acquired one yet.
    i do have a Rossi 45/410 caliber carbine and very much enjoy shooting it so imagine the black powder version would be much more fun.
     
  6. rodwha

    rodwha Member

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    I was speaking about the Remington pocket model and not the Colt, and so I see it possible to have a grip panel as the stock, which would be thicker than the stock panel to handle a little abuse and wouldn’t be so small. It could easily also extend lower than the grip frame adding a bit more to the hand’s purchase. No divot in the frame or screws necessary, though one could go that way.

    With a .22 I have hunted as far out as 75-80 yds. Granted I’m not sure a ball with a small 10-15 grn charge could be accurate enough beyond 50 yds, but I’d want a fair bit of sight radius. And maybe with a short bullet it could do well enough past 50 yds. Hard to say.

    We see the .32 cal rifles have up to 32” of barrel and do just fine with charges about like this. I’d have to say with certainty that 16-18” would do well enough. And I like the idea of legal length anyway so as to bypass any crap an ignorant police or game warden might want to give.

    By “Remington 1863 carbine” I mean turning an 1863 Pocket into a carbine.
     
  7. Caliper_Mi

    Caliper_Mi Member

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    397e9d57fa1cdcd684938f145217ba1a.jpg

    These are made for the 1860 Colt, something could probably be adapted for a smaller model. There is also a similar stock made for the 1858.
     
  8. rodwha

    rodwha Member

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    I’ve often thought one of those on a steel framed Remington with a 12” barrel would be nice for up close hog hunting. Or even modifying a Walker to accept one if that’s possible. Can’t say I’ve seen a stock for a Dragoon for sale anywhere.

    The one thing I find people often complain about is the short length of pull and how close your face sits near it. Guess one could cut it straight and add a recoil pad.
     
  9. Ephraim Kibbey

    Ephraim Kibbey Member

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    I think they stick close to the dragoons "that brought them!"

    I found this set on Armslist just before Christmas and was the first to call on it. I had seen several sets go for over $600 last year so when I saw his $475 price, I jumped on it. It is an unfired ASM 18 in. 3rd model Dragoon and its stock with anodized and blued furniture. It was missing the stock J-hook nut but I got a Pietta one from Taylor's for under $5 and it fit perfectly.

    7687964_01__44_cap_ball_18_barrel_with_sh_640.jpg

    It is a beast!
    A set based on a pocket pistol would be much more carry friendly.
     
  10. Hasaf

    Hasaf Member

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    Just to ask, can someone post a link or two to some BP pistol stocks for sale? I have seen them before; but I am just not finding any.
     
  11. TTv2

    TTv2 Member

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    I've seen people who want a .25 ACP carbine so they can make accurate reloads and have a small caliber, small game rifle, but the thing is that the .32 S&W Long or H&R Magnum loaded with Trail Boss is much more practical and slightly more powerful than a .22 hyper velocity is... and they already make .32 rifles.

    The thing with the .31 calibers is that the .36 calibers can do the same thing the .31's can and better. A .36 round ball coming out of a 12 inch barrel would be more than sufficient for small game and it wouldn't be prohibitively destructive like a .44 would and there are a lot more options out there for .36 in both guns and bullets. The .31's are limited to round balls and that's it.

    BTW, spur triggers are notably bad when it comes to precision, it's better to have something like an 1851 or 1862 Navy, but I understand you probably like the sight picture of the Remington style revolvers. Given how long the barrel would be for an 1851/1862 Navy, you could mount a rear sight on the barrel and still have a sufficiently long, and better, sight picture.
     
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  12. Ephraim Kibbey

    Ephraim Kibbey Member

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  13. rodwha

    rodwha Member

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    Very nice! Wasn’t aware a short carbine barrel was an option at one point.

    Not that a 7.5-8” barrel wouldn’t work nicely but it just seems a bit more barrel is optimal when using a stock, especially as longer shots become more doable.
     
  14. rodwha

    rodwha Member

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    I’ve certainly seen the Pietta aftermarket 12” barrels for the .36 and figured it would work well. Guess I just see it as a little odd using such a large projectile when a little one is all that’s really needed.

    I actually prefer having Accurate Molds create pistol bullets for me. Figured I’d make one for the .31 if I ever bought one. One the length of a ball would be ideal I think as the powder capacity is rather small as is. But for small game hunting I’d likely just use a ball unless I were shooting further or larger game such as coyote.

    Ultimately I think you are right in that a .36 Navy would be better if for no other reason than a better chamber capacity. And a .36 is certainly up to the task of something a bit better and possibly even our tiny Hill Country deer with a bullet.
     
  15. TTv2

    TTv2 Member

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    It's really not that much larger than .31 and the thing is that the .31 is already very weak at bp velocities, so the extra size of the .36 will ensure a clean kill on small game and be able to take larger game with conical bullets if needed.

    The main thing is that you can get 12 inch barrels and detachable buttstocks for the 1851 Navy repros. If I were going to do that, I'd also get a a used spare barrel and chop it down to 2 inches for when not small game hunting and use as a backup to something else.
     
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  16. rodwha

    rodwha Member

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    Well, I’ve figured I ought to eventually buy an 1851 Navy as all I read about is how they handle and point, but I figured if I did so I’d likely have to modify it to the historic test .40 cal that the government decided against. I’ve always been a sucker for something that starts with a 4... There’s a fellow on another forum who’s done just that as well as modifying a Remington to .41 cal so as to use off the shelf bullet molds he has.

    There’s a fellow on this forum who’s a member of the Walker subforum who has a carbine Walker with ~18” barrel. I’d love to know what’s involved in getting work like that done as I’d truly prefer an honest carbine barrel length. I don’t really hold out so much for being able to make the 70+ yd head shots on bunnies as I would do with a .22 but I’d certainly like the capability to do so at 50 yds.

    I’ve figured the Traditions Crockett is just something I’ll need but having a revolving cylinder just seems may more cool.
     
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  17. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    I can see sleeving the cylinder and then fitting a new barrel of the right caliber to the frame. The stock will have to be made but for a stockmaker that shouldn't be a great challenge.

    None of this would be cost effective to the shoulder-stocked Colts shown above.
     
  18. ofitg

    ofitg Member

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    It shouldn't be too difficult to convert a .44 Uberti revolving carbine to .36...... replace the barrel, and drop in a .36 Uberti Remington cylinder...... (?)

    Uberti .36 Remmies and .44 Remmies use a common frame.
     
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  19. expat_alaska

    expat_alaska Member

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    A carbine in .25 ACP is a new one for me. It is an anemic round in a 2" pistol.

    Tell me more...
     
  20. expat_alaska

    expat_alaska Member

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  21. rodwha

    rodwha Member

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    I’ve read of this as well. The idea being that it can be reloaded to cut the expense as rimfire ammo prices have risen.

    From a longer barrel, especially a carbine, these can be made to shoot more like a .22 LR from what I understand.
     
  22. TTv2

    TTv2 Member

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    I can't because I'm not the one who wants a .25 ACP carbine. I agree with you, it's a pocket pistol cartridge and nothing more. Besides, it's also a PITA to reload.

    Which is why I said .32 Long/H&R Magnum is more practical as they can be loaded extremely light with the right powder or maxed out to something between .38 +P and a low end .357 Magnum power, or if using .327 in the Henry rifle, up to a moderate to max .357 load. Also, there's a larger bullet selection in .32 than there is in .25 ACP.

    If the idea that person had is a small game, maybe whitetail if loaded hot rifle, then there's no need for a semi-auto, especially if the idea is to also reload those cases.
     
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  23. TTv2

    TTv2 Member

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    It's not that much of a cost savings. The .25 bullets are more per bullet than the .313 bullets are, the cases too, and there aren't many choices. You'll basically be stuck with what you can find, when you can find it. Say you had good results with one bullet and 5 months later you want more, only to be stuck with a different brand.

    .25 won't use as much powder as .32, but saving a cent on powder for the extremely low power level isn't much to brag about. The heaviest bullet a .25 can shoot is 50 grain, the .32 about 130 grains... that's almost 3 times heavier.

    There's no comparison here and no reason one should even entertain the idea of a .25 ACP rifle over a .32 lever action rifle.
     
  24. rodwha

    rodwha Member

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  25. rodwha

    rodwha Member

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    I can’t precisely speak for this fellow’s intentions or considerations but I think it had to do, in part at least, as a SHTF type thing. In that case maybe powder usage is a bigger deal as well as overall space. And if one were to cast bullets would cost almost nothing.

    As far as I recall ( ADD has a way of making things a bit foggy, especially when years pass by) he had just customized a revolver for .25 ACP but was planning on some sort of rifle as well for small game.

    As far as I’m concerned I see the validity of both sides to this. I have no idea what the expense of modifications were and typically wouldn’t see that as being warranted except for a SHTF type scenario. On the other side it seems a .32 is a bit big and overkill for small game, but then that’s a common caliber for muzzleloaders with some even using their large bore rifles with small charges, which I was curious about and intended on testing at my old range where I would be allowed to do such in a private stall only because I unknowingly knew the owner who I’d talk with often enough due to my BP guns (rifles on the 25 yd range were a no no as well as setting up wet phone books/gel blocks).

    But I also see the versatility in that even the .32-20 was used for close up deer, and with a swap of cartridge one could go from small game to medium game. I’ve viewed the .357 Mag as a bit marginal for deer but from a carbine not quite so much. And I know it’s been used often enough and does indeed work. For lower powered stuff I prefer larger calibers.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
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