Remington 1863 Carbine

[TTv2]

I can’t precisely speak for this fellow’s intentions or considerations but I think it had to do, in part at least, as a SHTF type thing. In that case maybe powder usage is a bigger deal as well as overall space. And if one were to cast bullets would cost almost nothing.

As far as I recall ( ADD has a way of making things a bit foggy, especially when years pass by) he had just customized a revolver for .25 ACP but was planning on some sort of rifle as well for small game.

As far as I’m concerned I see the validity of both sides to this. I have no idea what the expense of modifications were and typically wouldn’t see that as being warranted except for a SHTF type scenario. On the other side it seems a .32 is a bit big and overkill for small game, but then that’s a common caliber for muzzleloaders with some even using their large bore rifles with small charges, which I was curious about and intended on testing at my old range where I would be allowed to do such in a private stall only because I unknowingly knew the owner who I’d talk with often enough due to my BP guns (rifles on the 25 yd range were a no no as well as setting up wet phone books/gel blocks).

But I also see the versatility in that even the .32-20 was used for close up deer, and with a swap of cartridge one could go from small game to medium game. I’ve viewed the .357 Mag as a bit marginal for deer but from a carbine not quite so much. And I know it’s been used often enough and does indeed work. For lower powered stuff I prefer larger calibers.

Yeah, it was for SHTF, I think you're right, but I priced it out on factory bullets and brass and it's actually cheaper to shoot .32 than it is .25 ACP. That's just... unbelievable. Yes, if you were to cast lead bullets it would cost a lot less, but I don't hold out on being able to get lead for free or find it in STFH.

.32 is not overkill for small game if you load it weakly enough and subsonic velocities out of a 20 inch rifle would be fairly quiet.

.32-20 was used on deer over 100 years ago and with black powder as the charge, so the .32 has the potential, a lot more so than .25 does, and the principle applies to .31 vs .36. There are no .31 percussion rifles out there, but you could have a .36 rifle with a 12 inch barrel and detachable stock on the 1851 Navy.

 

[rodwha]

Yeah, it was for SHTF, I think you're right, but I priced it out on factory bullets and brass and it's actually cheaper to shoot .32 than it is .25 ACP. That's just... unbelievable. Yes, if you were to cast lead bullets it would cost a lot less, but I don't hold out on being able to get lead for free or find it in STFH.

.32 is not overkill for small game if you load it weakly enough and subsonic velocities out of a 20 inch rifle would be fairly quiet.

.32-20 was used on deer over 100 years ago and with black powder as the charge, so the .32 has the potential, a lot more so than .25 does, and the principle applies to .31 vs .36. There are no .31 percussion rifles out there, but you could have a .36 rifle with a 12 inch barrel and detachable stock on the 1851 Navy.

I believe, just as with commercial stuff, the lead would be had already. Of course ingots could be kept as well I suppose. However it wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility to find some of your projectiles in the deer or hogs, especially if you use a HP or get the velocity up so that it expands, as well as angling shots.

There’s a fellow on a traditional forum who has tried a patched brass ball and recovered it and reused it. Kinda crazy but a little interesting as well. But his reasoning was to try something non lead as some places have banned it and others could well follow one day.

 

[expat_alaska]

The only problem I see with this discussion is that it appears that some folks want to convert a BP C&B revolver, no matter the caliber, into a carbine using a shoulder stock, a conversion cylinder to chamber cartridge ammunition, with a barrel of less than 16".

BATFE views that configuration as a short-barreled-rifle (SBR). A few years ago there was a well known guy who had a .44 replica with a conversion .45 Colt cylinder, 12" barrel and shoulder stock, one of which were of the ones EK posted numerous links for. He had a hoot with it and the vid was great. This was pointed out to him and, voila, his vids disappeared almost immediately.

Tread lightly in this area. Stick to percussion and you are good to go because BATFE is not interested in us percussion antique artificers. They have bigger fish to fry.

I have NO problem with conversions to cartridge calibers, and I like the idea. The BATFE has other ideas, and can change its views on a whim.

Jim

 

[rodwha]

The only problem I see with this discussion is that it appears that some folks want to convert a BP C&B revolver, no matter the caliber, into a carbine using a shoulder stock, a conversion cylinder to chamber cartridge ammunition, with a barrel of less than 16".

BATFE views that configuration as a short-barreled-rifle (SBR). A few years ago there was a well known guy who had a .44 replica with a conversion .45 Colt cylinder, 12" barrel and shoulder stock, one of which were of the ones EK posted numerous links for. He had a hoot with it and the vid was great. This was pointed out to him and, voila, his vids disappeared almost immediately.

Tread lightly in this area. Stick to percussion and you are good to go because BATFE is not interested in us percussion antique artificers. They have bigger fish to fry.

I have NO problem with conversions to cartridge calibers, and I like the idea. The BATFE has other ideas, and can change its views on a whim.

Jim

Not I! And I feel a more legal length barrel makes sense for me in that it increases the sight radius for better accuracy as well as it likely adding a slight bit to the velocity which can’t be a bad thing.

I am also mildly concerned that not many police officers/game wardens are really savvy on BP laws and how they differ. I’d prefer to circumvent issues regardless and just be within the modern arms laws. I’d be pissed if they confinscated my short carbine that had been fired all day and then set in some room for months before they figured their folly and gave it back in horrible condition or worse yet taken to the station wasting my time. It’s not as though they replace or compensate.

I think it actually just meandered into the fellow who wants a carbine for his .25 ACP idea.

 

[expat_alaska]

Don't go to NJ, NY, MA, CN, or IL because Federal law is ignored and State law reigns supreme. Even the draconian CA laws ignore BP firearms.

 

[rodwha]

Wouldn’t spend enough time there to concern myself with those laws. I do have my favorite aunt in NJ and do visit some of those places but I certainly don’t stay too long. We’ll even eventually go through some seriously overly liberal places such as CA but still won’t spend much time there. Just try some beers and see some parks and move on.

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

This is a brass frame .44 with 12 inch barrel and stock so you won't be tempted to make it anything illegal with a conversion cylinder.

It appears to be an 1860 by Pietta out of Dixie Gun Works.

It just showed up on GB:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/749748635

 

[TTv2]

Problem with brass frames is they're just not built to last. OP could buy it and get a used steel frame in the future.

 

[rodwha]

I pulled out my Lyman handbook and ran the numbers through my ballistics calculator. The lowest charge for both the .32 and .36 is 30 grns and I chose Pyrodex P’s numbers, though I use 3F Olde Eynsford or Triple 7.

Quite frankly any revolving carbine would be neutered as far as performance. And a conical can always be used to get a better BC for further shooting. Still be a lot of fun for closer rabbits and such, but just not as versatile as a muzzleloader. On paper, sighted at 50 yds they are both pretty flat shooting to 75 yds with a ball with the .31 and 30 grns giving .22 LR performance of around 100 ft/lbs.

 

[rodwha]

Kind of odd to me there were no lighter loads, especially for the little .32. Most of the posted loads I’ve seen that people prefer for small game run 10-20 grns.

Curious if anyone with a .32 rifle or pistol use 4F for their charge.

And anyone using a conical in their rifle? If so what’s your load? I’m a bit curious how such would work on smaller medium game such as our tiny Hill Country deer (medium size dog with long legs). In essence it wouldn’t be too dissimilar to a 32-20 Win or better with a heavier powder charge. No data in my Lyman handbook with a conical though.