black_powder_Rob
Member
I like them both. but if you went on looks it would be the 1860.
Remington New Army vs. Colt 1860 Army
- Thread starter HDCamel
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Montenegrin
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- Joined
- Jul 4, 2011
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- 85
I voted on Colt 1860,because I thought it was Colt 1851.There is no gun that will point better,nor there will be.
Do one thing.Get the gun in your hand and point barrel in air.Watch your target and remember it's position.Then close your eyes and while holding them closed,aim at your target.Only two guns will allow you to aim directly at target while doing this : Colt 1851 Navy (maybe 1860 also but I am not sure) and Luger.
Colt is really extension of your hand.
Do one thing.Get the gun in your hand and point barrel in air.Watch your target and remember it's position.Then close your eyes and while holding them closed,aim at your target.Only two guns will allow you to aim directly at target while doing this : Colt 1851 Navy (maybe 1860 also but I am not sure) and Luger.
Colt is really extension of your hand.
There are about 4 different makes of the Remington NMA. The Santa Barbara and Euroarms are the lightest with the smallest frames & grips. The Pietta is heaviest with the fattest grips. Ubertis in the middle somewhere. I can't remember how the ASM I handled felt. I haven't found the 1860 Armies to be nearly as varied. Everybody's hands are different just like shoe sizes. One size doesn't fit all. It is no wonder opinions vary. The 1860 Colt is elegant compared to the NMA but both "feel" way different. The NMA is stronger but the Colt is "strong enough". I haven't shot either one loose yet using heavy loads with conicals.
andrewstorm
member
1 vote for Remington's 1858
reasons:1.cylinder change=faster reloads 2.a more sturdy club after all charges are fired for a civil war officers last ditch hand to hand combat.3.arbors and wedges are a primitive revolver design,less reliability than cylinder pins.4 cylinder notches for the safe carry of 6 loaded charges.5 I like the hex barrel and over all styling better than open top design,really! Although my first bp revolver was a kitgun of 36 cal pocket police I timed and antiqued it myself,and everyone called me a liar,and then said if I wasnt a liar, I should be a gunsmith,I regret selling that little 5 shooter.
reasons:1.cylinder change=faster reloads 2.a more sturdy club after all charges are fired for a civil war officers last ditch hand to hand combat.3.arbors and wedges are a primitive revolver design,less reliability than cylinder pins.4 cylinder notches for the safe carry of 6 loaded charges.5 I like the hex barrel and over all styling better than open top design,really! Although my first bp revolver was a kitgun of 36 cal pocket police I timed and antiqued it myself,and everyone called me a liar,and then said if I wasnt a liar, I should be a gunsmith,I regret selling that little 5 shooter.
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MCgunner
Member
I voted Remmy, best shooter and I prefer the solid top. I own and have owned Colts, but '51s. I cannot recommend NOT owning one. They are way cool fun! 
They also shoot fine once you figure out how to lower the POI.
I think this is the best advice of this thread. Take THIS one to the bank and cash it.
They also shoot fine once you figure out how to lower the POI.I think this is the best advice of this thread. Take THIS one to the bank and cash it.
MCgunner
Member
Well, if there was an ROA choice, I'd change my vote.
because when you learn the trick to loading and lube you can get into the 100s of shots
without binding.
when i first got my 1858 i was a little disapointed as well but now that ive worked out
how i want to load it id never choose a colt over a remington.
andrewstorm
member
damocs got a good point
blk powder is high maintenance but that's the skill that comes into the equation,and the reward is proficiency,with primitive weapons...
blk powder is high maintenance but that's the skill that comes into the equation,and the reward is proficiency,with primitive weapons...
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MCgunner
Member
Yeah, and besides, Remmies get fewer cap jams. They all have their quirks. I wouldn't have it any other way. These aren't Ruger Blackhawks here and it ain't smokeless. But, that's why we love 'em, right?
ontarget
Member
Never even held a Remmie. But I love all my colts. I have large hands so the '60 suits me just fine.
Tinpan58
Member
Remmie for sure! 8 extra cylinders caped and ready to go! counting the one in the gun that is 54 rounds, that is overwhelming firepower against the 1860 even if you had extra cylinders, no chance even coming close to keeping up, as for the cylinder pin I just wipe it down every 3 cylinders with a lightly oiled rag, and as for being a natural pointer, thats just practice.
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robert garner
Member
Didn't vote can't answer, haven't tried a Remington... yet.
Tinpan has surely set up an impressive rig.
robert
Tinpan has surely set up an impressive rig.
robert
Driftwood Johnson
Member
Howdy
It depends, so I ain't voting.
Neither design has a bushing on the front of the cylinder as later revolvers did to keep BP fouling off the cylinder pin. But my experience is that the much wider arbor on the Colt design, along with clearance cuts on the arbor, makes the Colt keep rolling much better than the Remington for multiple cylinders full of Black Powder. The narrow cylinder pin on the Remmy binds up much quicker.
I can shoot an entire Cowboy match with my Pietta 1860 Armys with no problems, but I have to remove the cylinders of my 1858 Remmies and wipe down the cylinders and cylinder pins after every cylinder full or they will bind up.
This photo illustrates the difference in the arbor/cylinder pin on the Colt and Remington. Even with the clearance cuts I cut in the Remington cylinder pin for extra lube it does not hold enough Bore Butter or SPG to keep it rolling as long as the Colt will. You can also see how much bigger the arbor hole is in the Colt cylinder than the cylinder pin hole in the Remington cylinder.
But when shooting Black Powder cartridges with a cartridge conversion cylinder, the Remington is much easier to shoot all day long. The cylinder pops right out for emptying and reloading. I simply wipe off the face of the cylinder with a damp cloth after every cylinder full. Much easier than knocking out the wedge of a Colt style pistol every time you want to reload cartridges in a conversion cylinder.
It depends, so I ain't voting.
Neither design has a bushing on the front of the cylinder as later revolvers did to keep BP fouling off the cylinder pin. But my experience is that the much wider arbor on the Colt design, along with clearance cuts on the arbor, makes the Colt keep rolling much better than the Remington for multiple cylinders full of Black Powder. The narrow cylinder pin on the Remmy binds up much quicker.
I can shoot an entire Cowboy match with my Pietta 1860 Armys with no problems, but I have to remove the cylinders of my 1858 Remmies and wipe down the cylinders and cylinder pins after every cylinder full or they will bind up.
This photo illustrates the difference in the arbor/cylinder pin on the Colt and Remington. Even with the clearance cuts I cut in the Remington cylinder pin for extra lube it does not hold enough Bore Butter or SPG to keep it rolling as long as the Colt will. You can also see how much bigger the arbor hole is in the Colt cylinder than the cylinder pin hole in the Remington cylinder.
But when shooting Black Powder cartridges with a cartridge conversion cylinder, the Remington is much easier to shoot all day long. The cylinder pops right out for emptying and reloading. I simply wipe off the face of the cylinder with a damp cloth after every cylinder full. Much easier than knocking out the wedge of a Colt style pistol every time you want to reload cartridges in a conversion cylinder.
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MCgunner
Member
Nice rig, Tinpan. I have only one case for my spare cylinders, two cylinder case, and haven't ordered the cylinders, yet, but that's on the agenda. Figure two is plenty, though, for now.
I have only one case for my spare cylinders, two cylinder case, and haven't ordered the cylinders, yet, but that's on the agenda. Figure two is plenty, though, for now.for driftwood johnson and others who complain about the remington binding
try a small dollop of lard to the cyl pin hole about a pea sized amount with every cyl change.bore butter will probably work but i have not used it for a very long time.
with each cyl change the small amount of lard will wash of the crud from the cyl pin and you can just keep going and going
here is a vid i posted before with 4 consecutive cyl changes last one being a 45 colt conversion cyl.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kqEgijuCu4
i used lard/beeswax over the balls but just lard in the cyl pin hole unless the temp is very warm
try a small dollop of lard to the cyl pin hole about a pea sized amount with every cyl change.bore butter will probably work but i have not used it for a very long time.
with each cyl change the small amount of lard will wash of the crud from the cyl pin and you can just keep going and going
here is a vid i posted before with 4 consecutive cyl changes last one being a 45 colt conversion cyl.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kqEgijuCu4
i used lard/beeswax over the balls but just lard in the cyl pin hole unless the temp is very warm
I never take my cylinders out during a match. Just place a single drop of oil at the front of the cylinder where it rubs the frame, hold the gun up and twirl the cylinder and you are good to go. Takes about 5 seconds after each reloading and the gun will run all day. No big deal. Keep a small plastic squeeze oil bottle in your shooting kit with all the balls, cappers, wads, push sticks, etc.
Driftwood Johnson
Member
Howdy
I'm sure of dollop of something gooey in the cylinder pin hole would help, but the simple fact is my 1860 Colts keep right on rolling without any such extra help. The wider arbor is simply a more friendly design for preventing Black Powder fouling from building up. Shot for shot, the same amount of fouling builds up on the arbor as on the pin of the Remington, but since the diameter is larger, it does not build up so deep. Plus, the helical groove cut around the Colt arbor is there to give the fouling some place to collect without binding the cylinder.
As for removing the my Remmie cylinders, I am talking about shooting them with R&D conversion cylinders. The cylinders MUST be removed every time to empty out the spent cases and put new ones in. No other way to reload. Since I have to pull out the cylinders anyway, wiping them off with a damp rag is no problem.
I'm sure of dollop of something gooey in the cylinder pin hole would help, but the simple fact is my 1860 Colts keep right on rolling without any such extra help. The wider arbor is simply a more friendly design for preventing Black Powder fouling from building up. Shot for shot, the same amount of fouling builds up on the arbor as on the pin of the Remington, but since the diameter is larger, it does not build up so deep. Plus, the helical groove cut around the Colt arbor is there to give the fouling some place to collect without binding the cylinder.
As for removing the my Remmie cylinders, I am talking about shooting them with R&D conversion cylinders. The cylinders MUST be removed every time to empty out the spent cases and put new ones in. No other way to reload. Since I have to pull out the cylinders anyway, wiping them off with a damp rag is no problem.
45-70 Ranger
Member
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2010
- Messages
- 337
Make mine a Colt thank you very much.
The last Remington I had would bind up with one cylinder load and I was forced to BEAT the basepin out of it EVERYTIME I went to clean it. And it made no difference what I used for lube. And I polished that basepin until it was smooth as silk. Made no difference, it would bind up fast and often. Of course I used nylon tools to do the action of pulling the basepin not to mar the finish, but it was such a P.I.T.A. that I got rid of that stinking Remington and am happy with all my Colts. Their Basepins, or as you folks use the alternant term, Arbors, are, as Driftwood Johnson spoke of, as being more of a friendly design. Yup, just make mine a Colt please and thank you very much!
Now I realize that this will add fuel to the fire, so to speak, in this discussion, but I am basing my PERSONAL opinion on 45+ years of BP shooting.....This ain't no rookie saying stuff that was just passed along and took up the cause for the fun of it. I've spent my time in the barrel here with these weapons. Originals and repo's both. Thus if you disagree, that is you privilage as it is mine as well....we can agree to disagree if you like.
Wade
The last Remington I had would bind up with one cylinder load and I was forced to BEAT the basepin out of it EVERYTIME I went to clean it. And it made no difference what I used for lube. And I polished that basepin until it was smooth as silk. Made no difference, it would bind up fast and often. Of course I used nylon tools to do the action of pulling the basepin not to mar the finish, but it was such a P.I.T.A. that I got rid of that stinking Remington and am happy with all my Colts. Their Basepins, or as you folks use the alternant term, Arbors, are, as Driftwood Johnson spoke of, as being more of a friendly design. Yup, just make mine a Colt please and thank you very much!
Now I realize that this will add fuel to the fire, so to speak, in this discussion, but I am basing my PERSONAL opinion on 45+ years of BP shooting.....This ain't no rookie saying stuff that was just passed along and took up the cause for the fun of it. I've spent my time in the barrel here with these weapons. Originals and repo's both. Thus if you disagree, that is you privilage as it is mine as well....we can agree to disagree if you like.
Wade
Driftwood Johnson
Member
Howdy Again
I'm not exactly new to Black Powder either. I bought my first Cap & Ball revolver in 1968.
I'm not exactly new to Black Powder either. I bought my first Cap & Ball revolver in 1968.
AlexanderA
Member
The Remington's solid frame, ease of cylinder change, and safety notches rather than safety pins, made it clearly superior during the Civil War, and superior now. Judging from contemporaneous writings, the troopers preferred it. Colt had the advantage of having been first in the field, and having built up a following. Plus, Sam Colt was a genius at marketing.
I'm considering degreasing my Remington cylinder pin and spraying it with dry moly.
The last time I shot my RNA, I ran 4 cylinders through it with no problems.
I had wiped the pin down with bore butter prior to loading, and used bore butter over each ball and that's it.
The last time I shot my RNA, I ran 4 cylinders through it with no problems.
I had wiped the pin down with bore butter prior to loading, and used bore butter over each ball and that's it.
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