Replaced My Old Water Stones

DMW1116

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It's been a long time since I needed a new set of water stones. However, my old ones are worn down to 1/4" or so and it's time to get a new set. The old ones were a King 1000 grit and a Norton 250 grit. These are the kind that need to be soaked prior to use for about 10 minutes, or until they quit bubbling.

I replaced them with a set of Naniwa Advanced Super Stones in 220, 800, & 2000 grit. These are 3/4" thick and only require a quick dunk or splash to be ready. They took a couple of knives to get used to, but they seem to work really well. They all produce a finish finer than the grit values would indicate. The edge off the 2000 grit stone will catch arm hair without touching my skin. I feel I may have been missing out by not trying others over the last 15 years my old waterstones have lasted. The only thing I need to try is rebeveling an edge. The knives I've tried so far have been set with a 12 degree per side edge angle. I have a couple I want to lower from 17 dps to 12 dps. If the 220-grit stone can do this efficiently, then I'll look into a full set by adding a 5000 and 10,000 grit stone. Does anyone use any other brands or lines of stones that might be worth a try? I've used DMT diamond, Norton India and Water Stones, and King water stones. The Naniwa Chosera stones were recommended on another forum, but I don't see a reason to switch with these working as well as they have. I also have and use a well worn Spyderco Sharpmaker. This was my preferred finishing tool for applying the final edge to most knives. However, I feel these stones have surpassed it. I'll have to do a head-to-head comparison to be able to tell the difference, if there is one.
 
With the caveat that I am not, and may never be, an expert at sharpening.… The stones you got would satisfy about 97% of my sharpening needs. I have Ultrasharp diamonds, Arkansas stones, a (surprisingly-good) Sharp Pebble water stone, and a Naniwa 3000 grit. I like different stones for different steels, and I like the Naniwa, but I don’t work with knives for a living. So if I’m using the Naniwa, I’m really sharpening for fun at that point, to see what I can do. If it were me, I’d spend a little time with what you have to seek what it will do before spending more money.

With all of that said, if you think a 10K stone is something you would use, get one. I only have the one Namiwa, but I also spend some time over at Bladeforums, and they get solid reviews there, IMO. I read a thread somewhere, probably BF, where there was some speculation that the Advance Superstones are really just re-branded Chosera. I do not know whether that is true.
 
I read that too. I don’t have a way to tell one way or the other. I’ll need a couple more knives before I really know what they’ll do but for now the 2000 is sufficient. I’ve never really gone down the road of ultra fine stones but I may be willing to try since seeing what these will do. I want to try the Spyderco Ultrafine triangles too.

Im on board with different stones for different knives. I have a Schrade trapper and an Old Hickory belt knife that I think deserve a final edge from an Arkansas Fine or Black stone. I have a couple of knife projects making blades from an old two man saw that ultimately will end up with a Fine Arkansas edge too. My Arkansas stones were a gift so I feel obligated to try them and these blades seem like a good place to start.
 
It's been a long time since I needed a new set of water stones. However, my old ones are worn down to 1/4" or so and it's time to get a new set. The old ones were a King 1000 grit and a Norton 250 grit. These are the kind that need to be soaked prior to use for about 10 minutes, or until they quit bubbling.

I replaced them with a set of Naniwa Advanced Super Stones in 220, 800, & 2000 grit. These are 3/4" thick and only require a quick dunk or splash to be ready. They took a couple of knives to get used to, but they seem to work really well. They all produce a finish finer than the grit values would indicate. The edge off the 2000 grit stone will catch arm hair without touching my skin. I feel I may have been missing out by not trying others over the last 15 years my old waterstones have lasted. The only thing I need to try is rebeveling an edge. The knives I've tried so far have been set with a 12 degree per side edge angle. I have a couple I want to lower from 17 dps to 12 dps. If the 220-grit stone can do this efficiently, then I'll look into a full set by adding a 5000 and 10,000 grit stone. Does anyone use any other brands or lines of stones that might be worth a try? I've used DMT diamond, Norton India and Water Stones, and King water stones. The Naniwa Chosera stones were recommended on another forum, but I don't see a reason to switch with these working as well as they have. I also have and use a well worn Spyderco Sharpmaker. This was my preferred finishing tool for applying the final edge to most knives. However, I feel these stones have surpassed it. I'll have to do a head-to-head comparison to be able to tell the difference, if there is one.
Link to the stones you bought?
 
I read that too. I don’t have a way to tell one way or the other. I’ll need a couple more knives before I really know what they’ll do but for now the 2000 is sufficient. I’ve never really gone down the road of ultra fine stones but I may be willing to try since seeing what these will do. I want to try the Spyderco Ultrafine triangles too.

Im on board with different stones for different knives. I have a Schrade trapper and an Old Hickory belt knife that I think deserve a final edge from an Arkansas Fine or Black stone. I have a couple of knife projects making blades from an old two man saw that ultimately will end up with a Fine Arkansas edge too. My Arkansas stones were a gift so I feel obligated to try them and these blades seem like a good place to start.
LIke you, I have no way of knowing whther the Advance Super Stones are the same as the Chosera. My Naniwa might be a Chosera, but I'll have to go look.

As an Arkansas guy, I also feel kind of obligated to have & use some Arkansas stones. And I do like them, particularly for older steels, like the Schrade & Old Hickory you describe. I could probably get a decent edge on some of the newer steels (like my S90V Benchmade Valet) with them, but it might take a while. On my older, softer-steel knives (like that Schrade trapper or the Old Hickory you described), I'll either use my Sharp Pebble or maybe an old corundum stone I have, until I've got a basic serviceable edge, then move through my Arkansas stones until I'm done, assuming no serious reprofiling is needed. For reprofiling, I head straight for diamonds, and I usually use my Hapstone R2 for that, just to help me get a more consistent profile. I just bought a new set of Hapstone Start Diamonds (grits of 80 to 1000), but I haven't used them yet, so I can't tell you if they're any good. For other diamonds, I know the DMTs come highly recommended (and I want to get some for comparison), but I can tell you that I get an awful lot of use out of my UltraSharp diamonds.

I will say that in better hands than mine, I think my Naniwa would make for a very nice result, but I still need more practice with it. Given that you have a 2000, though, I don't think a 3000 would make that much difference, so if you're going to go finer than 2K, I'd sure suggest getting something north of 3K, at least to 5K. If you do get Naniwa Advance in one of the higher grits, I hope you'll let us know how it turns out. My last couple of purchases have been for either coarse stones, or replacement stones, so now I'm thinking I might eventually want to move past my 3000 grit, as well.

ETA: Just so we're clear, I've never even handled a Naniwa Advance Super Stone, nor anything higher than a 3000 grit stone, so take my advice as being worth what you paid for it. ;)
 
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I replaced them with a set of Naniwa Advanced Super Stones in 220, 800, & 2000 grit.

Is that a typical step-up in sharpening? Wouldn't you want an intermediate grit in there before 800?

Am curious and I only ask as I have the Work Sharp' Bench setup with upgrade kit and that is 220, 320, 600, 800 and then a leather strop. I was AMAZED at how much stropping a blade or chisel adds to the sharpening! As a 'yute' I had missed out on that benefit by ignoring this step, lol! But now that I make my own muskets and longrifles from blanks, I've come to realize has sharp our sharp tools need to be!
 
It's actually an art form . One that stiff hands along with readers hamper the process for me.
Sounds awesome.
 
Is that a typical step-up in sharpening? Wouldn't you want an intermediate grit in there before 800?

Am curious and I only ask as I have the Work Sharp' Bench setup with upgrade kit and that is 220, 320, 600, 800 and then a leather strop. I was AMAZED at how much stropping a blade or chisel adds to the sharpening! As a 'yute' I had missed out on that benefit by ignoring this step, lol! But now that I make my own muskets and longrifles from blanks, I've come to realize has sharp our sharp tools need to be!
There is a 400 grit stone in the lineup but jumping from a 220 too a 1000 grit stone is not unusual water stones. I went with 800 as it’s coarse enough to remove 220 grit scratches quickly. If I were doing more polishing of larger surfaces, the 400 grit would likely be beneficial.
 
There is a 400 grit stone in the lineup but jumping from a 220 too a 1000 grit stone is not unusual water stones. I went with 800 as it’s coarse enough to remove 220 grit scratches quickly. If I were doing more polishing of larger surfaces, the 400 grit would likely be beneficial.
Thank you! I wasn't aware of that with water stones.
 
The general rule of doubling grits still applies but edges have such a narrow total area, it doesn’t matter much for taking care of my half dozen knives. I am not good at polishing bevels with water stones. Thats where I’d want to follow the grit progression to a tee.
 
An 800 grit water stone is still fairly coarse. I’ve rebeveled knives with an 800 grit King stone. My old progression was from 220 to 1000 to 4000, but I do think a 2000 would have been beneficial between the 1000 and 4000.
 
If you are using relatively "soft" abrasives, then a grit progression is more of an issue. You're removing metal relatively slowly and putting a relatively large amount of wear on the stones, so if you go right from coarse to very fine, you're going to spend a lot of time on your very fine stone and also put a lot of wear on it. By moving up through the grits in a progression, you can spend a short time on each stone and also distribute the wear across a lot of stones.

The same thing (minus the wear issue) applies if you are using an abrasive that tends to not be very aggressive (e.g. ceramics). You're going to spend a lot of time on the fine stone, and stone loading will be a troublesome issue if you jump right from coarse to fine.

If you are using really hard and aggressive abrasives (e.g. diamond), then you can profile with a coarse grit, move right to a very fine grit, and then strop.

Another option is to profile with your coarse grit stone, do some alternating passes on the coarse grit stone with increasingly light pressure to remove most of the burr, then do a "microbevel" with your fine grit soft stone. This is done by raising the angle slightly and finishing the just a tiny bit of the edge with the very fine grit stone as opposed to polishing the entire bevel that was created in the profiling step. Then strop as normal.

Going through a progression of a number of grits will, no doubt, give very good results--I just don't find it necessary unless one's choice of sharpening technique/abrasive makes it necessary. A couple of good stones (one coarse and aggressive--say a 300-400 grit diamond, cubic boron nitride or silicon carbide, and one very fine--maybe 1000-1200 grit) and a good strop will not hinder a person from getting a knife as sharp as they are capable of sharpening. That is, their technique/skill, not the stone choice will be the limiting factor.
 
Other than a course stone for resetting bevels, I’ve never been a huge fan of diamond stones. They work but I’d say these work just as well for the knives I have. The real test will be when it’s time to sharpen my son’s Benchmade in MagnaCut. 800-1200 grit in waterlines is considered medium grit, comparable to a 600 grit red DMT.
 
I'm definitely not saying that water stones won't work. They will work, and they will work very well on most steels. The reasons I don't use them are:
  1. I don't like the mess of using liquids on sharpening stones. It doesn't make the edge any better, and means more prep and cleanup.
  2. I don't like soft stones.
    1. They don't make the edge any better.
    2. They make for a lot of cleanup (dust policing) even if they are used without water.
    3. They wear out faster.
    4. They require periodic flattening which takes time and generally requires an additional stone for flattening work.
  3. I don't like how long it takes to get a knife really sharp with them. They will absolutely make a knife ridiculously sharp if used properly, but the same effect can be achieved in much less time with other types of stones.
  4. They can be problematic to use on steels with really great abrasion resistance (edge holding) capability.
  5. I don't like that you have to have a bunch of them (to follow a relatively slow grit progression) which means more stuff to store and more stuff to buy and generally more money spent**.

**To be fair, I probably haven't saved any money by not using water stones because I did buy them to see how they worked. So the money has already been spent. I will likely save some money in the long run since I probably won't have to ever replace them based on how rarely I use them these days.

The reasons I like them are:
  1. The sharpening "feel" of waterstones is much nicer than using some of the other options.
  2. I enjoy sharpening so the fiddling that is required for using waterstones does have an undeniable appeal to me.
In this case, the more practical side of me wins out. I have some water stones, but almost inevitably when I need a knife sharpened, I end up using something that provides faster results with less prep and cleanup required.

I see this as very similar to other issues like choosing razors for shaving. I like the idea of using blade razors (straight or safety) but when the rubber meets the road (blade meets the face) I find that cheap disposables are really hard to beat overall. I also, for example, dislike the general concept of serrated blades, on principle, but in practice I use them for some applications where they just make too much sense to ignore. I kind of admire the folks who are so dedicated to aesthetics and tradition that they can take the more scenic route, but inevitably find myself more focused on the destination.
 
I tried water stones and was not pleased with them. Yes, they produced a sharp edge but the mess and the wear on the stones was a lot more than I could tolerate. I sharpen knives, practically every day of the year. I have tested nearly every system, stone, gimmick out there. What works for me, is the DMT diamond plates. Available in a variety of grits, they are very aggressive at first but settle in to a very nice balance of aggressiveness and smoothness.

If I were to return to water stones, I would use the ceramic water stones.

In my shop, I probably have over 500 different stones I have tested. As mentioned, for me, I have settled on the DMT diamonds.

Kevin
 
So the question becomes what are we all doing differently. One of the reasons I moved away from diamond, particularly coarse diamond, is they didn’t last as long as something like a Norton coarse India.
 
I tried water stones and was not pleased with them. Yes, they produced a sharp edge but the mess and the wear on the stones was a lot more than I could tolerate. I sharpen knives, practically every day of the year. I have tested nearly every system, stone, gimmick out there. What works for me, is the DMT diamond plates. Available in a variety of grits, they are very aggressive at first but settle in to a very nice balance of aggressiveness and smoothness.

If I were to return to water stones, I would use the ceramic water stones.

In my shop, I probably have over 500 different stones I have tested. As mentioned, for me, I have settled on the DMT diamonds.

Kevin
You have my attention, link me to what I should have. Pocket knives, belt knives, kitchen knives. A one time purchase bundle.
Thanks
 
So the question becomes what are we all doing differently. One of the reasons I moved away from diamond, particularly coarse diamond, is they didn’t last as long as something like a Norton coarse India.
DMT stones have a lifetime warranty if I remember correctly.

Have you been using DMT diamond stones?

Kevin
 
I wore out a blue coarse one and haven’t gone black except a DMT Aligner kit. That was a WHILE ago.
 
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