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Resizing OK?

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Larryswn, Sep 8, 2021.

  1. Larryswn

    Larryswn Member

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    This is point 223. After sizing the case it's sticks out of the case gauge just a hair. And I mean a hair almost microscopic. But it's not quite as flush as a brand new piece of brass. Is this OK?
     

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  2. dcloco

    dcloco Member

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    Does it chamber?
     
  3. The Glockodile

    The Glockodile Member

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    If it chambers reliably in your rifle, it’s probably fine.

    However - the steps in your case gauge are supposed to represent the upper and lower limits in squeezing your case down to size, as far as resizing goes
     
    sparkyv and ms6852 like this.
  4. Larryswn

    Larryswn Member

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    So it's beyond the upper limit then...... The dye is adjusted as low as it can possibly go. However, They chamber the same depth as a brand new round by hand and they eject easily

    Die, sorry, talk to text
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 9, 2021
  5. Larryswn

    Larryswn Member

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    Forgive the dumb questions I've only reloaded new brass. Learning about step 2 now.......

    And your experience after resizing how does it fit in your case gauge? Perfectly? If so, maybe I need a different one

    I've tried 5 different types of brass and it's the same results
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 9, 2021
  6. KYregular

    KYregular Member

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    Have you tried a factory round in that gauge to see if could possibly be the gauge? You should be able to drag your nail across the top of the gauge and not hit the brass.
     
  7. Larryswn

    Larryswn Member

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    Actually I think maybe I'm OK. They are flush with the high point. Factory rounds are flushed with the low point.....
     
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  8. Flycaster1977

    Flycaster1977 Member

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    Im unfamiliar with a case gauge and how its supposed to work, but If your worried that the brass is too long after resizing them, i would trim and save yourself the worry.
     
  9. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    The chamber will likely accept the case, despite the shoulder being a little too far forward, assuming that is what has it slightly above flush, check and see. Or you can adjust the die down a quarter turn and see what happens.
     
  10. lordpaxman

    lordpaxman Member

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    The gauge is to spec but your chamber is the real test. You passed.
    What kind of press and most FL dies are adjusted so you have to cam over the ram to completely size? If you’re just touching the shell plate usually you go slightly beyond that. Perhaps the instructions say something? Good luck.
     
    sparkyv likes this.
  11. Howa 9700

    Howa 9700 Member

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    If memory serves, the instructions on my Wilson case gauges say to set the case on a hard surface, place the case gauge over the top of it and if any portion sticks up above (push an angled business card across the top to see if it skims past it or stops on neck rim), it is time to trim the case. Just did that with some 270 win cases, and when measured, sure enough, they were .001 to .002 longer than SAMMI specs. LEE case trimmer took them down .004 below SAMMI spec.
     
  12. Blue68f100

    Blue68f100 Member

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    I always use a straight edge to see if it's high. All of my ar's have match chambers and they must fit the gauge to fit my chamber.

    But like said the chamber is the final gauge. On a bolt gun it easy to check. On a AR you need to check it without spring assist, ejector and extractor removed. Meaning drop the brass in the chamber and see if the BCG/bolt will close with only light pressure. The AR's have enough energy with the buffer spring to drive an out of spec in. Will be hard to open the bolt though.
     
  13. Larryswn

    Larryswn Member

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    It's a hornady Lock & Load...... It's been adjusted to not just touch the shell plate but actually push against it. Maximum case length is 1.76 these are 1.7.... I'm thinking to make 20 or so and just try Em'.... I'm not worried about operation, I can deal with that I just want to make sure I'm not being unsafe...... Not to mention I'm in California and if my rifle blows up I cannot replace it with the same type. I have to buy that weird "compliant" crap, because it's an "assault" rifle........ Can't wait to get out of this commie shithole
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2021
    stillquietvoice and BigBoreBubba like this.
  14. Larryswn

    Larryswn Member

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  15. Larryswn

    Larryswn Member

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    Even a piece of paper slides past. I think I'm good.
     
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  16. runner3264

    runner3264 Member

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    Adjust your sizing die another 1/8" of a turn clockwise and try again in the gauge.
     
  17. AshMan40

    AshMan40 Member

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    I have found that with necked cases, there is some case length growth as the cartridge is fired but more so most growth happens as the case is sized. The sizing die presses the case neck and shoulder back down from its expanded size (after being fired) to bring the neck dimension down to a slightly smaller diameter than called for. Then, as you draw the case out of the sizing die the ball on the decapping pin is pulled thru the neck resulting in the case ending up with the proper ID at the neck to properly retain the bullet. Different manufacturer's dies may vary this ID size by +/- 0.001". This drawing of the ball thru the neck tends to pull on the brass case making it longer. You can measure the difference by measuring the overall case length both before sizing and after sizing w/ a caliper. I find the length change varies per case.
    Factors such as case lube, brushing the inside of the neck, the brand of case, how work hardened the brass is, the smooth shape of the pin's ball... can all play a factor in the amount the case is drawn out and lengthened. Polishing the ball will make it both smoother and smaller. Both reduces how much the ball pulls on the case mouth. But you don't want to reduce the ball OD much or you will increase how firmly the case will "grasp" bullets pressed in. Light polishing is fine.

    No matter how much you try, after a few reloadings the case will have lengthened so much it will now be outside the case OAL specs. The case length for .223 Rem = 1.760". The advertised trim length = 1.750". As long as your cases are in between these measurements you are safe and within specs. Can you run cases shorter or longer than this range of case lengths... yes you can. Will it be a problem... depends on your gun and chamber. By remaining within the cartridge specifications you ensure the cartridge will work in ANY gun chambered for the cartridge. You will run into a problem when your case is so long that its mouth makes contact with the narrower freebore area of the chamber and the case becomes compressed when the bolt closes.

    This pic I came across shows the dimensions of different chambers based on .223 Rem / 5.56mm NATO / .223 Wylde.
    qfGJlQU.png
    Note dimension "K" which is the case length. For the "PTG 223 Rem Match" you would never want the case to be over 1.760" as it would be too long. For all the rest, case lengths of 1.770" should still chamber fine. When the case is so long that the mouth makes contact at point "F" you have a problem.


    For me, I measure all my cases after resizing but before the primer is installed. This means resizing and priming as two separate steps. I do like priming cases by hand.
    By checking their length after resizing, I can confirm if the resizing step has stretched them. Any cases I find over 1.760" go into a bucket to trim. Anything less than or equal to 1.760" goes into the reload bucket. I trim the cases down to 1.750" before returning them into the assembly line.

    When I am trying to make a batch of very accurate loads I will trim all the cases in the batch to the same length (1.750") just for consistency sake. This is just another way to minimize the tolerances so each round is consistent and the overall batch produces the smallest grouping.
     
    MrMagumba likes this.
  18. gifbohane

    gifbohane Member

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    That is what I would do..maybe a little cam over....
     
  19. Larryswn

    Larryswn Member

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  20. Larryswn

    Larryswn Member

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    I was told by another member that trimming .223 should not be required that often...... All my Brass is separated. I only have my own brass. It's all only been fired once. If I'm within tolerance on one can I assume that the rest will be so I don't have to waste time checking length?...... My . 223 brass was charged with the grain powder. My 5.56 brass also had the same powder charge Amongst themselves.
     
  21. chamokaneman

    chamokaneman Member

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    Looks like the same case gauge I just picked up recently. I've got about a thousand piece of range brass I've picked up. I wanted to full length size them as minimally as possible but still get good function in blaster ammo. I've found the gauge to be simple but kind of frustrating just because the dimensions we're talking about are so tiny. I finally decided to just load up 50 test rounds and if they all feed / extract reliably just call my die settings good.

    FWIW - Your case gauge looks like mine and it looks like the side facing me is the short/low side. You want to be above with your case rim (you are) and this means your head space is not too short. If the case head were above the high side (you want it below) your cartridge head space would be too long.

    Looks to me like your good and even if your not, better to not resize enough then it is to grossly over resize.
     
  22. film495

    film495 Member

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    if it is once fired, the extractor can leave a tiny burr on the rim, and will cause that. just feel around the rim and see if there is a tiny burr. when I'm checking cases I have a little piece of 400 grit paper to debur the rim, when that happens.

    I use a small metal straight edge, and if the case is too high, the edge will rock on the case, and that is a fail. To check if it is too low, I put the edge the other way, and ususally with your finger you can push the case up, and I want to hear it tap the edge, to make sure there is a tiny gap there. It took me a while of fiddling with the different gauges to make them work for me. .
     
  23. AshMan40

    AshMan40 Member

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    If all your brass comes from new cartridges that you fired thru your rifle making them once-fired... you are probably okay to spot check a few cases per batch and make sure they are below the max case length. If you fire different brands of cases or different head stamp batches (eg. LC cases), spot check these separately. Don't assume different make cases will expand/stretch the same as some other brand.

    Once your cases become "multiple times fired" you will need to work up and check all the cases and their lengths. You probably want to check the case mouth and look for cracks. I have found it necessary to trim cases because they started cracking at the case mouth. Trimming them will cut off the crack and (hopefully) prevent it from growing and splitting the case.

    The more you fire and resize the case the longer it will get. At some point some of them (maybe only one in a batch) will be longer than the max case length. Your choice here is to trim just those that are too long, or trim ALL the cases in that batch so they are all to trim length. If you are trying to get the max life from each case, only trim those that are too long. This means measuring all the cases to separate those that are too long from those that are not.
     
    stillquietvoice likes this.
  24. Blue68f100

    Blue68f100 Member

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    A lot of Mil spec brass is a little longer for the crimp and require trimming.

    IF you have an adj gas block you can shut it down/off and then check where the head space is on a fired round. As far as fitting the gauge you should be below the max and above the lower step, ~0.004" difference. The actual head spacing on the gun should be in between the Go and NoGo, 0.003". For reliable operation in all guns shoot for fitting the case gauge.

    If you take the time and anneal the brass, it will size easier and be more consistent on shoulder position. As brass work hardens from use, you will be re-adjusting your dies very often. Annealing the brass means you will not be needing to adj the sizing die since it's at a constant state.
     
  25. Larryswn

    Larryswn Member

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