Resolution - Salt Lake CCW Shooting

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camslam

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Just a quick update. The gentleman that shot and killed a man outside a restaurant a few weeks ago in Salt Lake City was not charged with any crimes.

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_10059067

Salt Lake County prosecutors have decided not to press charges in a fatal shooting last month outside Mama's Plantation restaurant.
Michael James Mays was shot dead July 9 outside the restaurant, 1394 S. West Temple, during an altercation with off-duty security guard George Harrison.
In a statement released Thursday, Salt Lake County prosectors wrote that Harrison had good reason to believe he was in danger when he shot Mays.
"Mr. Harrison believed that Mr. Mays was reaching for a gun to shoot him," the release states. "Under the circumstances of Mr. May's verbal threats, aggressive approach toward Mr. Harrison, and action of lifting his shirt and reaching his hand toward his waistband, Mr. Harrison's belief was reasonable. The Salt Lake County District Attorneys' Office therefore declines to file any charges against Mr. Harrison arising out of this incident."

For those that remember or participated, there were a couple of lively exchanges about this one on THR.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=376712

I for one am glad Mr. Harrison will not be charged with anything. Congrats to him.
 
I took the Conceal & Carry class from Larry Correia on the 19th, and he was pretty annoyed with FCFC, he know's I'm Rugerlvr, and we talked about it. He also used it as an example in his class. He said basically from what he'd heard in the media, he thought it was a good shoot. He wasn't sure that the DA was going to "no-bill" the shooter or not, but he felt like she should. Thankfully, she realizes the inherent right of self defense, and the decision making process that goes into it.
 
I was concerned with all the negative press this received that the DA was going to "knuckle under", I am glad she did not.

I for one will never know what FCFC has to say on this issue. After his disgraceful posts I blocked him. No issue to him, but one less internet troll I will have to endure.
 
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_10063162
No charges
Fatal shooting called justified
S.L. County prosecutors say it was reasonable to believe man near eatery was reaching for weapon
By Erin Alberty
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 08/01/2008 12:08:57 AM MDT

Calling it a case of self-defense, Salt Lake County prosecutors announced Thursday they are not pressing charges in a fatal shooting last month outside Mama's Plantation restaurant.
Michael James Mays, 47, was shot dead July 9 outside the restaurant, 1394 S. West Temple, while coming at off-duty security guard George Harrison, 59, in a threatening manner and apparently reaching into his waistband for a gun, according to prosecutors.
In a statement released Thursday, Salt Lake County prosecutors wrote that Mays was across the street and north of the restaurant, pacing and talking on a cell phone, when he began shouting threats at Harrison, claiming, "You don't know who I am," and "I'm going to [expletive] you up."
Mays then walked south, closer to the restaurant, prosecutors wrote. When he was directly across from Harrison, he turned abruptly and approached the patio area where Harrison was sitting, prosecutors wrote.
Mays was two or three feet away from Harrison when he lifted his shirt with his right hand moved his left hand toward his waistband, prosecutors wrote.
Fearing Mays was reaching for a gun, Harrison drew his concealed .38 Special revolver from a holster at his waist and shot Mays once in the chest, killing him, prosecutors wrote.
Two other witnesses corroborated Harrison's account, prosecutors wrote, noting that Harrison is licensed in Indiana to carry a concealed weapon, and that Utah recognizes other state's concealed carry permits.
"Mr. Harrison believed that Mr. Mays was reaching for a gun to shoot him," the release states. "Under the circumstances of Mr. May's verbal threats, aggressive approach toward Mr. Harrison, and action of lifting his shirt and reaching his hand toward his waistband, Mr. Harrison's belief was reasonable."
Police later confirmed that Mays was unarmed.
Said District Attorney spokeswoman Alicia Cook: "We believe this incident falls within the parameters of self-defense and that the shooting was justified."
Asked when Harrison decided to pull his gun, Cook said, "The whole thing seems to have been pretty quick. I don't think Mr. Harrison had time to deliberate about anything."
Cook added that Harrison has expressed "a lot of regret" about the shooting.
"It's fair to say he wishes the whole thing hadn't happened," Cook said. "It was an unfortunate circumstance for both men."
According to Utah law, Cook said, "You can only respond with lethal force when you are threatened with lethal force. You cannot use lethal force to respond to a fistfight."
[email protected]

Actually I'm stunned that the spokesman for the DA office would say you cannot respond with lethal force to being beaten with fists.

Tell that to a 110lb woman who is being beaten to death by a 250lb male assailant.

Wow. Just Wow.

If you want some aggravating fun, read the comments on the Trib story.
 
I wish a mod would change the title of this thread to something like "Salt Lake CCW shooting ruled justified" or something. There were a lot of people interested in this story, and I don't think people are coming in here because the title is ambiguous.
 
Rugerlvr: Sorry for the Plain Jane title. I was trying to keep from sensationalizing the headline.

I don't know if you have noticed lately, but the mods are letting the locks fly fast and furious, in particular in S & T. So I thought I would try to keep it low key to bring in those that were really interested in the story, versus those that just like to throw in their sarcastic, snide, or flippant comments.

Sadly, a lot of times, those comments are hilarious. :)
 
Sadly, a lot of times, those comments are hilarious.

Read the comments on the trib article I posted above if you want to see hilarious.

btw, I'm "murraydad" in those comments.
 
arthurcw said:
Here’s a handy little sequence of mouse clicks and KBD commands:

Click User CP
Click Buddy / Ignore Lists
Enter “FCFC” into the Add New User to List text box in the Ignore List section.
Click Save List

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=376712&page=4

Rugerlvr said:
Ignored. FCFC has nothing to say I'm interested in hearing.


http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=376712&page=4

Rugerlvr said:
So FCFC? What say you?
Interesting position(s), Rugerlvr.

The "resolution" is also an interesting development. I'll have to read the news accounts.

Thanks for posting, camslam, Rugerlvr.
 
Well, hate to say I told you so, but I friggin' TOLD YOU SO. Over and over, actually.

Yeah, what do I know about Utah self defense law. :rolleyes:
 
hey FCFC, There's nothing in the rules that says I can't click the little link "view post" for ignored users. I really am interested in your take here, because you're either going to backpedal, or continue to try to sell your belief that this was a bad shoot. More likely you'll claim that there was something in the story that you hadn't previously heard, that changes your mind. Never mind that people told you again and again, that you didn't have the whole story... None of us did.
 
Salt Lake Tribune I have found to be a good paper. They where the only paper I know who didn't fall to Yellow Press levels a few months back when there was a issue in Texas and CPS.

Sounds like a good shoot. If your in a confrontation you don't go reaching for something.
 
hey FCFC, There's nothing in the rules that says I can't click the little link "view post" for ignored users.
Rules? What rules?

Rules diversion aside, doesn't that kind of, er, undermine your "Ignored. FCFC has nothing to say I'm interested in hearing." statement, Rugerlvr?

First you say "Ignored." Then you say "What say you?"

Say what you mean. Mean what you say, Rugerlvr.

Gimme a chance to read the articles. Then I'll post in this thread.

Assuming someone hasn't locked that thread that is.
 
irst you say "Ignored." Then you say "What say you?"

Say what you mean. Mean what you say, Rugerlvr.

:rolleyes:

Sorry man, but on this, I have to hear you out. Try not to take it personally.
 
I say help the next guy, send the da flowers, or a letter. I for one will send in my none resident CCW permit application. I completed the class last week, just need to send information.

One of the scary things is to act inside the confines of the law, wondering if you will get screwed. This guy is lucky, because so many think this should have been worked out in the courts, and they are wrong. Utah law is clear in this situation.
 
if you don't make personal attacks, we all have a better chance of enjoying this thread, instead of getting it locked quickly.

As for the article, I had read the original and because of the eyewitness's collaboration of the events I am glad they left the guy alone. He did nothing wrong, and used his ccl and ccw for what it was meant for.
 
Drgong wrote:

Salt Lake Tribune I have found to be a good paper. They where the only paper I know who didn't fall to Yellow Press levels a few months back when there was a issue in Texas and CPS.

Drgong: Just to give you a heads up, the Salt Lake Tribune is mostly trash. The only redeeming qualities that paper has are the mostly up to the minute newsflashes and the ability to comment on their articles.

Otherwise, read it for a few weeks and you'll see it is mostly liberal whining, complaining, and drivel. They have something anti-gun usually at least once a week if not more often.

Just a heads up.
 
As for what the DA said (I think it was the DA) about not shooting someone without lethal threat. Thats the way some states are. I was told by a cop in Illinois if you have an intruder and have to shoot him because they came at you and when you turn on the lights they didn't happen to have a weapon...go grab one from your kitchen and put it next to them, because without it your going to jail.

The way I was told it worked was you can only use one level of force above what your attacker was using. So if you were attacked by someone with their fists you could use a baseball bat, if they had a weapon of some sort you can use lethal response of shooting and such. Not sure if thats how it is in reality but just what I was told when I lived there.

Thank goodness we have the Castle Doctrine in Michigan...


Clerihew
 
Clerihew, In Utah, all you have to have is a reasonable fear that you are in danger of serious bodily injury (that could kill you) or instant death. It doesn't matter if the weapon is a fist, board, bat, knife or gun.

I'm 6'4" and weigh 325. If I were beating a 110lb woman with my fists, would she have a reasonable fear of being killed? Yes. If she were beating me with her fists, would I have a reasonable fear of being killed? No.

See how that works?
 
Drgong, the only reason the trib maintained a sense of objectivity with the Texas polygamists and CPS is because the largely LDS readership expects it when it comes to anything remotely connected to their religion. (Polygamists are connected... remotely.)
 
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