According to the NSSF, there are about 20 million active hunters, and over 17 million active target shooters, of which about 10 million are handgun shooters. I've read, but don't have a quick and handy source, that 80 million Americans own firearms, and that there are over 200 million firearms in American homes.
Response to Ebay banning gun related items
- Thread starter hso
- Start date
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I sent my email Tuesday, and just now got a response (the same canned BS everyone else got). I hope the delay is due to volume of mail received. I know it makes no difference but it makes me feel a little better.
To those who say Big deal, I hate ebay anyway, It's their right so stop griping: this is a win for the anti-gunners. Not a political win as far as laws, but a big win nonetheless. I have a hard-earned 100% feedback of nearly 150, and it was not an easy decision to close my account, but it's the principal. Would you buy from Gun Control Inc. if they had a website, because they had the best prices or most convenient site? It appears to me from the response I just received, that ebay is completely sold on the "guns have no place in our society" thing. That much is very clear.
If we all just sit back and take it by not closing our accounts, and continue to give them money, they will continue to walk all over us.
To those who say Big deal, I hate ebay anyway, It's their right so stop griping: this is a win for the anti-gunners. Not a political win as far as laws, but a big win nonetheless. I have a hard-earned 100% feedback of nearly 150, and it was not an easy decision to close my account, but it's the principal. Would you buy from Gun Control Inc. if they had a website, because they had the best prices or most convenient site? It appears to me from the response I just received, that ebay is completely sold on the "guns have no place in our society" thing. That much is very clear.
If we all just sit back and take it by not closing our accounts, and continue to give them money, they will continue to walk all over us.
I closed my account in response to another thread on this site. I sent a short very high road email and received the first version of the form letter. Closing my ebay account won't cost them much, as I didn't use it too often. My paypal account is another story though. I use it a lot. Does anyone have experience with any of the other pay sites?
achildofthesky
Member
I got this reply to my email...
Dear Patty,
Thank you for your recent email to Matt Halprin
in regard to changes to
our Firearms, Weapons and Knives policy. He has
asked that I review your
email and respond on his behalf.
At eBay we take the safety of our community and
our marketplace very
seriously. We have a Trust and Safety team which
consists of more than
2,000 experts in online security and safety who
are located around the
globe. This team is dedicated to ensuring that
our marketplace is a safe
and trusted place for buyers and sellers to
engage in trade.
We value an open and transparent marketplace; if
items are legal to buy
and sell in an unrestricted manner we allow them
on our site. However,
there are some items that while legal, may not be
safe for our
marketplace. In these instances, our applicable
policies go beyond the
law to ensure that our marketplace is safe.
Currently we do not allow actual firearms on the
site. After careful
consideration our executives and our Trust and
Safety team determined
that any item required to fire a gun has no place
on eBay. All of our
policies are under constant review. As the
Internet and the way our
communities use the Internet evolves, our
policies and our marketplace
must evolve with it. We determined that this
policy change was in the
best interest of promoting a safe marketplace for
all members.
I understand your frustration regarding this
matter and apologize for
the inconvenience it caused you.
Sincerely,
Terri
Office of the President
Original Message
----------------
From: Geneva Smith
[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 12:26 AM
To: Halprin, Matt
Subject: Ebay ban on gun parts and related items.
To: Matt Halprin
On July 30, 2007 you announced that ebay will add
new restrictions to
the "Firearms, Weapons and Knives Policy". These
restrictions are on
items that are legal to own / use in these great
United States.
You claim that "This new update continues to
encourage safety among our
community members". How? The items ebay are
banning are still for sale
in the USA and still legal to own / use in this
great country!
Will ebay motors stop allowing the listing of
vehicles because a drunk
driver kills someone? What happens when someone
is bludgeoned to death
with any of the baseball bats listed on ebay?
With logic such as this,
surely you must ban helicopters as they collide
in mid air and kill as
in Phoenix, toys as they can have lead paint and
small parts to choke
on, motorcycles are a sure ride to death, weight
loss pills that kill,
tools as they cause can cause bridges to collapse
as in MN today, radar
detectors that are banned in a few states because
we all know speed
kills, dark window tint is too a hazard, etc...
What about the thousands
of other items that could be used to cause harm
to person or persons?
What about the thousands of items listed that
could be used to commit a
crime or break the law? The list is truely
endless. Yet the items you
seek to ban are 100% legal and commonly available
even at Walmart and
small town mom and pop convenience stores and
sporting goods outlets
across all 50 states. Your ban is out and out
retarded and ill thought
out.
I strongly urge ebay to rescind these new
restrictions.
Thank you for your time.
Sincerely,
Patty Smith
achildofthesky
375+ feedback 100% positive
What a crock of crap. Unfortunately for me and others selling brass, gunbroker does'nt have a catagory outside of ammunition to post in. Glad I don't own Ebay stock anymore or else I'd have to dump it now.
Patty
Dear Patty,
Thank you for your recent email to Matt Halprin
in regard to changes to
our Firearms, Weapons and Knives policy. He has
asked that I review your
email and respond on his behalf.
At eBay we take the safety of our community and
our marketplace very
seriously. We have a Trust and Safety team which
consists of more than
2,000 experts in online security and safety who
are located around the
globe. This team is dedicated to ensuring that
our marketplace is a safe
and trusted place for buyers and sellers to
engage in trade.
We value an open and transparent marketplace; if
items are legal to buy
and sell in an unrestricted manner we allow them
on our site. However,
there are some items that while legal, may not be
safe for our
marketplace. In these instances, our applicable
policies go beyond the
law to ensure that our marketplace is safe.
Currently we do not allow actual firearms on the
site. After careful
consideration our executives and our Trust and
Safety team determined
that any item required to fire a gun has no place
on eBay. All of our
policies are under constant review. As the
Internet and the way our
communities use the Internet evolves, our
policies and our marketplace
must evolve with it. We determined that this
policy change was in the
best interest of promoting a safe marketplace for
all members.
I understand your frustration regarding this
matter and apologize for
the inconvenience it caused you.
Sincerely,
Terri
Office of the President
Original Message
----------------
From: Geneva Smith
[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 12:26 AM
To: Halprin, Matt
Subject: Ebay ban on gun parts and related items.
To: Matt Halprin
On July 30, 2007 you announced that ebay will add
new restrictions to
the "Firearms, Weapons and Knives Policy". These
restrictions are on
items that are legal to own / use in these great
United States.
You claim that "This new update continues to
encourage safety among our
community members". How? The items ebay are
banning are still for sale
in the USA and still legal to own / use in this
great country!
Will ebay motors stop allowing the listing of
vehicles because a drunk
driver kills someone? What happens when someone
is bludgeoned to death
with any of the baseball bats listed on ebay?
With logic such as this,
surely you must ban helicopters as they collide
in mid air and kill as
in Phoenix, toys as they can have lead paint and
small parts to choke
on, motorcycles are a sure ride to death, weight
loss pills that kill,
tools as they cause can cause bridges to collapse
as in MN today, radar
detectors that are banned in a few states because
we all know speed
kills, dark window tint is too a hazard, etc...
What about the thousands
of other items that could be used to cause harm
to person or persons?
What about the thousands of items listed that
could be used to commit a
crime or break the law? The list is truely
endless. Yet the items you
seek to ban are 100% legal and commonly available
even at Walmart and
small town mom and pop convenience stores and
sporting goods outlets
across all 50 states. Your ban is out and out
retarded and ill thought
out.
I strongly urge ebay to rescind these new
restrictions.
Thank you for your time.
Sincerely,
Patty Smith
achildofthesky
375+ feedback 100% positive
What a crock of crap. Unfortunately for me and others selling brass, gunbroker does'nt have a catagory outside of ammunition to post in. Glad I don't own Ebay stock anymore or else I'd have to dump it now.
Patty
My response
Mr. Halprin;
In light of your decision, to restrict the sale of firearm components I have decided that Ebay will not receive another cent of my money..PERIOD!
Lest you think my decision will have a negligible impact on your company's "bottom Line" I will remind you that a large portion the nation's 80 million gun owners, hunters and sportsmen have been or are currently being made aware of this short-sighted attempt to keep us "safe from ourselves".
Furthermore, many who patronize Ebay, while not necessarily being hunters/shooters ARE campers, fishermen, sports collectors i.e. outdoors men/women who have not taken your decision lightly.
I have personally contacted (23) of my personal friends and family via phone/email resulting in a total of (19) ( thus far) who have canceled their Ebay accounts and have vowed to convince THEIR friends to do likewise.
Suffice it to say that am making it my lot in life to continue to inform as many friends and acquaintances as possible of your company's recent decision.
PS:
Please refrain from sending to me the same lame"canned" rebuttal that my friends have received concerning this matter.
Mr. Halprin;
In light of your decision, to restrict the sale of firearm components I have decided that Ebay will not receive another cent of my money..PERIOD!
Lest you think my decision will have a negligible impact on your company's "bottom Line" I will remind you that a large portion the nation's 80 million gun owners, hunters and sportsmen have been or are currently being made aware of this short-sighted attempt to keep us "safe from ourselves".
Furthermore, many who patronize Ebay, while not necessarily being hunters/shooters ARE campers, fishermen, sports collectors i.e. outdoors men/women who have not taken your decision lightly.
I have personally contacted (23) of my personal friends and family via phone/email resulting in a total of (19) ( thus far) who have canceled their Ebay accounts and have vowed to convince THEIR friends to do likewise.
Suffice it to say that am making it my lot in life to continue to inform as many friends and acquaintances as possible of your company's recent decision.
PS:
Please refrain from sending to me the same lame"canned" rebuttal that my friends have received concerning this matter.
bigpea
Member
Email sent, this is definitely anti-gun and I will no longer purchase or sell on Ebay. I don't know why they don't just ban car sales on Ebay as well, people die everyday. Ebay is messed up, what crap.
bigPEA
bigPEA
Is it not odd that auto's kill more each day than guns probably do in a month and yet they still sell those? Yea, VT was a sad deal, but while I am typing this the same amount of people are probably killed in car wrecks. EBAY, BAN CAR SALES TOO PLEASE.
bigpea
Member
Maybe Matt Halprin and the EBAY group have been hanging out with HUGO CHAVEZ in Venezuela. EBAY sure doesn't seem like a very patriotic company to me. Or maybe they are having tea parties with North Korea!!!
IDIOTS!
bigPEA
IDIOTS!
bigPEA
skinnyguy
Member
I got the same reply as thefumegator, nice to see that they have 2 form letters to send out.
Here is my reply to them.
In closing my account, I opted for the permanent deletion of the account, on the last page, I ran into this little tidbit;
Here is my reply to them.
In closing my account, I opted for the permanent deletion of the account, on the last page, I ran into this little tidbit;
The {non-High Road adjectives} DO have the way to convince me to stay, but they won't do it.
hoppinglark
Member
I don't have an Ebay account but my wife does. She once ordered me a handmade Railroad-stake-knife that a blacksmith made.
I can get the PC of not selling gun parts, we just move our business to Amazon.com market place and let them take the rewards, but not selling knives? Knife sets are often on wedding registries and are a gentleman's tool no matter how you look at it.
no animal skins? so no leather to tool for belts or other accesories?
Ebay just went off the deepend.
I can get the PC of not selling gun parts, we just move our business to Amazon.com market place and let them take the rewards, but not selling knives? Knife sets are often on wedding registries and are a gentleman's tool no matter how you look at it.
no animal skins? so no leather to tool for belts or other accesories?
Ebay just went off the deepend.
Email sent
Mr. Halprin,
It is disappointing to note Ebay’s change on gun part sales. I’m sure you have heard many of the typical responses to this so I will avoid those by merely letting you know that more children have died on their bicycles than by guns in this country. More people have died in their cars in this country than by guns in this country, by a long, long margin. Yes, but the benefits of the car are so significant that they far outweigh the thousands of deaths every year. What about global warming? That could affect the entire world! Is it worth getting to work that much quicker or farther away and put the entire earth at risk? You probably haven’t thought about this, but based latest analysis by noted economists and statistians there are approximately 2.5 million guns used in legally justified self defense EVERY YEAR. That means at least 2.5 million people were either not killed or severely injured because of guns. Think about it this way, can cars make the same claim? Perhaps. It is possible that because of a car a mother was able to get to the hospital or a child was saved. But when we say at least 2.5 million people we mean that those people that used those guns most likely had other people with them and so saved their lives from ending or permanent damage.
So do guns help society? Are guns saving lives? Yes on both counts. In fact “right to carry” guns laws are the single most consistently effective way of bringing down murder and assault. Educate yourself and those in your company. It is not an emotional endeavor that we must pursue, but rather a reasoned circumspective analysis that doesn’t involve what we “feel is right”. By making it more difficult for people to get the parts necessary to service their guns you are potentially responsible for their lives either in death or injury. I will not partner with a company that has such a pursuit.
I will be cancelling my account.
Mr. Halprin,
It is disappointing to note Ebay’s change on gun part sales. I’m sure you have heard many of the typical responses to this so I will avoid those by merely letting you know that more children have died on their bicycles than by guns in this country. More people have died in their cars in this country than by guns in this country, by a long, long margin. Yes, but the benefits of the car are so significant that they far outweigh the thousands of deaths every year. What about global warming? That could affect the entire world! Is it worth getting to work that much quicker or farther away and put the entire earth at risk? You probably haven’t thought about this, but based latest analysis by noted economists and statistians there are approximately 2.5 million guns used in legally justified self defense EVERY YEAR. That means at least 2.5 million people were either not killed or severely injured because of guns. Think about it this way, can cars make the same claim? Perhaps. It is possible that because of a car a mother was able to get to the hospital or a child was saved. But when we say at least 2.5 million people we mean that those people that used those guns most likely had other people with them and so saved their lives from ending or permanent damage.
So do guns help society? Are guns saving lives? Yes on both counts. In fact “right to carry” guns laws are the single most consistently effective way of bringing down murder and assault. Educate yourself and those in your company. It is not an emotional endeavor that we must pursue, but rather a reasoned circumspective analysis that doesn’t involve what we “feel is right”. By making it more difficult for people to get the parts necessary to service their guns you are potentially responsible for their lives either in death or injury. I will not partner with a company that has such a pursuit.
I will be cancelling my account.
BobCat
Member
A couple of days ago I terminated my ebay and paypal accounts, and made it clear why.
However, I wonder if these people are even making a political statement at all.
Is it not possible that they are trying to distance their companies from liabilty issues arising from the use of a firearm part or accessory - like the magazine the VT killer bought via ebay - in a crime?
Yes, more people die in auto wrecks every year than from gunshot wounds (I think it is about twice as many but am too lazy to look it up right now). However, cars are not primarily weapons, which is a plausible legal defense against their being liable if someone buys a car through ebay and then runs someone over.
Firearms, although many of use them primarily for recreation / competition, are weapons first and sporting goods second. If someone buys "something that is used in the firing of a gun" (or however they phrased it) through ebay, and then goes on a crime spree, might ebay be a tempting deep-pockets target for a lawsuit?
Please note I am not defending their actions, have ended my accounts (and need to look for other places to buy reloading equipment and so forth), and do not intend to do business with them any more. I'm just searching for a plausible reason for their stance, that does not invoke anti-gun irrationality.
Regards,
Andrew
However, I wonder if these people are even making a political statement at all.
Is it not possible that they are trying to distance their companies from liabilty issues arising from the use of a firearm part or accessory - like the magazine the VT killer bought via ebay - in a crime?
Yes, more people die in auto wrecks every year than from gunshot wounds (I think it is about twice as many but am too lazy to look it up right now). However, cars are not primarily weapons, which is a plausible legal defense against their being liable if someone buys a car through ebay and then runs someone over.
Firearms, although many of use them primarily for recreation / competition, are weapons first and sporting goods second. If someone buys "something that is used in the firing of a gun" (or however they phrased it) through ebay, and then goes on a crime spree, might ebay be a tempting deep-pockets target for a lawsuit?
Please note I am not defending their actions, have ended my accounts (and need to look for other places to buy reloading equipment and so forth), and do not intend to do business with them any more. I'm just searching for a plausible reason for their stance, that does not invoke anti-gun irrationality.
Regards,
Andrew
I apologize if this was already posted, but here is a petition; please consider signing it.
http://www.petitiononline.com/ebay0001/petition.html
http://www.petitiononline.com/ebay0001/petition.html
The_Antibubba
Member
This is a GOOD thing!!
and:
In all the time I've used eBay, I have NEVER used PayPal. Their owners were anti-gun from a long time before they merged. This seems to have surprised a lot of gun users who should know better; they've made contributions to the Brady groups and to pro-ban politicians. On the occasions I've bought gun-related items on eBay, I've written to a few sellers that I cannot participate in their auction because I don't use PayPal. Some have accepted MOs, some wouldn't, but almost all of them were surprised to learn about the anti-gun bias.
Well, no more.
As wealthy as they've become they might not miss the 2A supporters and the income we generate. But this will mean that other auction sites, and other ePayment systems, will get a boost; and as more of us use them, they will improve.
I'll probably keep my eBay account--there are still things which cannot be found elsewhere. Yet.
But mark my words: The 800 pound gorilla will soon be losing some weight.
and:
In all the time I've used eBay, I have NEVER used PayPal. Their owners were anti-gun from a long time before they merged. This seems to have surprised a lot of gun users who should know better; they've made contributions to the Brady groups and to pro-ban politicians. On the occasions I've bought gun-related items on eBay, I've written to a few sellers that I cannot participate in their auction because I don't use PayPal. Some have accepted MOs, some wouldn't, but almost all of them were surprised to learn about the anti-gun bias.
Well, no more.
As wealthy as they've become they might not miss the 2A supporters and the income we generate. But this will mean that other auction sites, and other ePayment systems, will get a boost; and as more of us use them, they will improve.
I'll probably keep my eBay account--there are still things which cannot be found elsewhere. Yet.
But mark my words: The 800 pound gorilla will soon be losing some weight.
Crimp
Member
eBay and PayPal accounts dumped and a letter to Halprin sent today. I will miss my PayPal account, but Halprin made the decision to close it for me.
DomMega
Member
This comes as no surprise to me. Ebay is located in California and a lot of "PC" guidelines and regulations usually come from here or NY. I'm sure the anti-gun crowd starting crying to ebay about the sales of gun parts and accessories and instead of wanting their stock to go down one quarter of one percent, they decided to just give in to the stupidity. Kind of like what Kmart did in "Bowling for Columbine" when they stopped selling ammunition because the Columbine shooters bought their ammo there and Michael Moore brought a paralyzed victim there. All that did was give Wal-Mart the market on ammunition sales and I'm sure they thanked Michael Moore for that, haha.
I think after this is said and done, ebay is going to realize they kind of shot themselves in the foot when they're overall productivity goes down a bit (pun intended). Might be a good time to short ebay's stock in retrospect.
I think after this is said and done, ebay is going to realize they kind of shot themselves in the foot when they're overall productivity goes down a bit (pun intended). Might be a good time to short ebay's stock in retrospect.
Thanks for the link for the petition if everyone got involved the 900 pound gorilla would soon be on a strict diet and places such as Gunbroker.com or Auction Arms could take up the slack or even maybe a new company would have the capital to build a better free market internet auction site for everything including firearms, autos, gun parts etc just like e bay only a real free market auction site with everything and anything.
E bay has had a virtual monopoly for way too long.
I have e mailed them and signed the petition as should all who are firearms enthusiasts, if all gun owners stood together we would be heard!
Vote with your dollars or your feet and hopefully in 5 or 10 years e bay will be the place for cheap computer software and beannie babys and not much else.
E bay has had a virtual monopoly for way too long.
I have e mailed them and signed the petition as should all who are firearms enthusiasts, if all gun owners stood together we would be heard!
Vote with your dollars or your feet and hopefully in 5 or 10 years e bay will be the place for cheap computer software and beannie babys and not much else.
OCJ
Member
Is it possible to get the stats on other products that have caused deaths, purchased on ebay and specifically referenced in the media articles reporting the deaths...and then make this report available to various media outlets, showing that crimes involving gun parts from ebay make up a very small percentage?
LubeckTech
Member
What is the most effective way to contact Ebay? I've looked at their "contact us" thing and it seems like more of a FAQ than anything else. I want them to explain to me what a "bullet tip" is, especially when I don't see any of them listed. I also want to ask them when they plan to ban bows, arrows, baseball bats, crow bars, tire tools. knives, axes, rope and cars? All of these things are VERY lethal and (with the exception of cars) are silent and don't require any type of ammunition. Basically it is possible to kill and injure a lot more people with a blunt insturment or edged weapon over time than with any firearm - there have been (and are) serial killers that have been killing for years in this fashion. How many people can you kill with a firing pin, slide or anything else they propose to ban? Last I want to point out to them that their position sets them up for a lawsuit in that their ban is an admission of liability that extends to ALL of their auctions. One of the above posters said this is a win for the anti gunners and that is only true if we all cancel our accounts, pick up our marbles and quitely go away. BUT if we show them we won't go away, flood their servers with email and use this as an opportunity to bring attention to our situation it doesn't have to be a win for them. Before you close your account what can you do to make them waste their time and rescources and regret their decision? Have som fun with it!! It probably won't do any good but it is better than nothing which has no chance of doing anything. Was it over when the Germans bombed Peral Harbor?? Of course not!!!!!!
wheelgunslinger
Member
I'm pretty certain that eBay won't care at all and has already processed the financial forcast before making this move so they know what they are getting into and don't care.
The owners of Gun Broker and Auction Arms have to be gleefully wringing their hands and interviewing potential building contractors for their new homes...
The owners of Gun Broker and Auction Arms have to be gleefully wringing their hands and interviewing potential building contractors for their new homes...
Creature
Member
woopsy...never mind.
mljdeckard
Member
Without reading the entire thread, I may be repeating what has already been said, but understand, eBay's trust and safety department (prohibited items team) was already pre-occupied with complaints about weapons-related listings. They are a department which spends all day looking at listings people have complained about, which can be anything from child-pornography to nazi memorabilia to dangerous items. They were already spending a lot of time sorting through grey area of what is and isn't allowed. They look at this as a relief, that they can scratch off anything with 'gun' in the listing, it makes their job smaller. This means they have more time to manually search for prohibited items.
Their customer service is deliberately set up to handle activists and spammers. They already have to handle (for example) spam floods from christian groups protesting listings in the adult sections. They can filter emails by topic or content. And NO, you can't call them directly. Pretty much the only way to actually speak to someone there is to become a powerseller and then if there is a problem, you have an actual account representative who you can contact. In this, they value high-volume sellers (The ones who actually keep them in business) more than small-time buyers. About a year ago, they announced similar service for high-volume buyers as well, I never heard if it happened or not.
It had been suggested numerous times that eBay set up a section to sell firearms with its own seperate terms of service (as in eBay motors) or that they buy a site like auctionarms.com, but they always come back to: It's too much of a liability. If someone buys a gun from eBay and goes Columbine, they would be out of business.
Their customer service is deliberately set up to handle activists and spammers. They already have to handle (for example) spam floods from christian groups protesting listings in the adult sections. They can filter emails by topic or content. And NO, you can't call them directly. Pretty much the only way to actually speak to someone there is to become a powerseller and then if there is a problem, you have an actual account representative who you can contact. In this, they value high-volume sellers (The ones who actually keep them in business) more than small-time buyers. About a year ago, they announced similar service for high-volume buyers as well, I never heard if it happened or not.
It had been suggested numerous times that eBay set up a section to sell firearms with its own seperate terms of service (as in eBay motors) or that they buy a site like auctionarms.com, but they always come back to: It's too much of a liability. If someone buys a gun from eBay and goes Columbine, they would be out of business.
alan
Member
I personally think that E/bay's line or justifications or rationalizations for this new policy are plain and simple, baloney. Having said that, they can take this line, if they like.
Equally if not more important is the following. Individuals who are less than happy over E/bay policies can take their money and patronage elsewhere. In-so-far as I understand, there are other places to go.
Equally if not more important is the following. Individuals who are less than happy over E/bay policies can take their money and patronage elsewhere. In-so-far as I understand, there are other places to go.
LubeckTech
Member
What email address is everyone using to contact them? It matters not that they don't care - it is important they hear from us. This was not done, on their part, without thinking or considering the negative reprocussions. I'm quite certain they are prepared to "handle" us but wouldn't it be nice if they were to find they underestimated the situation??
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